Which Liberal Are You Voting For?

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

One of the main reasons I returned to this site, is my curiousity about who was supporting whom in this upcoming election. Reading the posts, I see some of the ones I figured would support Obama, are indeed supporting him. I don't see many Hillary supporters, or at least they don't seem to be very fired up about their candidate. Seems like there are a few more righties here, but they aren't exactly cheerleading for McCain. Sifting through the bashfests and flamewars, I am having a really difficult time determining who is voting for which liberal, so I decided a poll question was in order.

 

[Onceler]

McCain is actually a pretty traditional conservative. Most of you just don't like him because he "betrayed" you by working with Dems once in awhile, and because Rush told you not to.

He's more conservative than Bush, at least as far as being a small gov't guy.

 

[meme]

McCain is actually a pretty traditional conservative. Most of you just don't like him because he "betrayed" you by working with Dems once in awhile, and because Rush told you not to.

He's more conservative than Bush, at least as far as being a small govst guy.

So I take it you're voting for McCain?
I'm pretty sick of hearing that Rush tells conservatives what to do..
He hasn't said one way or the other who the hell to vote for in the General election..

Stupid.

 

[Good Luck]

McCain could only be labeled a liberal on social issues - and not always in that area. On economic policies he is not a far right as libertarians or even many republicans, but he is definitely not liberal either. It seems McCain wants to continue, or even expand tax cuts. Well, tax cuts are not a bad idea, but a government can only cut taxes so far before the predicted higher revenues from economic stimulus will hit the wall of diminished returns. I believe that wall has already been hit, such that, while I normally do not object to cutting taxes as much as possible, I also believe "as much as possible" has already been exceeded.

My biggest objection with McCain is he seems to have no idea what the hell to do in Iraq. But then, neither does Clinton. And I do not agree the unilateral withdrawl plans of Obama (one or two brigade a month until all troops are home) will result in anything positive in the long term. Since, IMO, a poor idea is as bad (sometimes worse) than no idea, the Iraq issue is a wash between candidates.

My biggest objection with Obama is his plans to start heavily taxing all capital gains and other investment capital. Many retirees who do NOT qualify as wealthy depend greatly on investment income as part of their retirement. Hitting those people with heavy taxes on their retirement investments - in the name of targeting the wealthy - is not only a bad idea, it is plain assed stupid. I neither fully support nor strenuously object to the principle of progressive taxation - both sides have their points. But treating investment income as automatically income of the wealthy is moronic. Lump investment income with all other types of income, then tax according to the level of total income. Corporate taxes are simply treated as a business expense - and we all know what happens when business expenses increase - the cost of doing business is always passed on to the consumer. We're already facing a stagnant economy with threat of recession, and the added threat posed by inflation. Forcing people - including the poor - to pay more for goods due to corporate taxes will do little to make things better - especially with respect to the inflation rate.

Little is needed to be said why one should not vote for Clinton. I had her pegged as a power-hungry, self absorbed twit while she was still First Lady. I also had her pegged as one who would eventually make a bid for the presidency. Myself and many others were 100% correct when we opined her first run for the senate was but a stepping stone for what she really wanted. (Well, what she really wants is to be global empress and dictator for life, but U.S. president is the best spot available.)

 

[evince]

McCain a liberal?

ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah!

how redicules.

The guy is now a neocon just like your precious Bush.

 

[Cypress]

So I take it you're voting for McCain?
I'm pretty sick of hearing that Rush tells conservatives what to do..

He hasn't said one way or the other who the hell to vote for in the General election..

snip.

LOL! Neither have half the republicans I see in cyberspace.

But come November, we all know what's going to go down.

You're going to pull the lever for whoever has the best chance to beat Obama. That would be McCain.

The constant and virulent anti-Obama postings by "undecided" conservatives, the constant irrational fear of Obama ("OMG he's a muslim! He doesn't wear a lapel pin!") belies your true intentions. You hate Obama, you hate Democrats. Now, you might be embarrased of McCain. You might not be able to think of a good, principled reason to enthusiastically support the Party that gave you McFossil, George Junior, Bob Dole, and Poppy Bush. And yet, by November 5, 2008 I fully expect the "Hey, at least Bush was better than Gore/Kerry" excuses to morph into "Well, I HAD to vote for McCain to stop socialism!". Voting for the lesser of two evils is what cons have been reduced to, for two decades. Or more. That's the slow death spiral the conservative movement has been on for centuries. It's rarely about principled ideas, or popular policies. It's about a slow kabuki dance; shadowing boxing the imagined threat of encroaching american "socialism". And if "stopping" socialism, means voting for uninspiring and barely credible candidates like Bob Dole, George Bush Junior, Poppy, or McCain, then that's exactly what the vast, overwhelming majority of cons will do.

 

[Onceler]

"So I take it you're voting for McCain?"

Why would you think that? That is very curious. Poor reading comprehension skills....

 

[meme]

"So I take it you're voting for McCain?"

Why would you think that? That is very curious. Poor reading comprehension skills....

yeah, that must be it.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

McCain could only be labeled a liberal on social issues - and not always in that area. On economic policies he is not a far right as libertarians or even many republicans, but he is definitely not liberal either.

Nope, McCain is a Liberal. He votes with Liberals, he sides with Liberals against Conservatives, he can't even bring himself to utter conservative words while campaigning for president, knowing that he needs the conservative base to be elected. It pains McCain to even be thought of as a Conservative, he will go out of his way to prove that charge wrong. If any opportunity to pounce on a weak conservative idea comes along, you can count on John to lead the "moderate" charge to make sure it dies.

No one who supported Campaign Finance Reform should ever even be considered Conservative, it is as Liberal an idea as we've ever adopted. His position on Illegal Immigration is nothing remotely close to Conservative, and although he hasn't really been clear on what his economic policy would be as president, I have a feeling it would be on the Liberal side as well. About the only area he can claim any association with Conservatives, is on the issue of Iraq. He is about as "Conservative" as Joe Lieberman, in fact, some have mentioned Joe as a possible running mate, that is how NON-Conservative John McCain is.

 

[Good Luck]

Nope, McCain is a Liberal. He votes with Liberals, he sides with Liberals against Conservatives, he can't even bring himself to utter conservative words while campaigning for president, knowing that he needs the conservative base to be elected. It pains McCain to even be thought of as a Conservative, he will go out of his way to prove that charge wrong. If any opportunity to pounce on a weak conservative idea comes along, you can count on John to lead the "moderate" charge to make sure it dies.

No one who supported Campaign Finance Reform should ever even be considered Conservative, it is as Liberal an idea as we've ever adopted. His position on Illegal Immigration is nothing remotely close to Conservative, and although he hasn't really been clear on what his economic policy would be as president, I have a feeling it would be on the Liberal side as well. About the only area he can claim any association with Conservatives, is on the issue of Iraq. He is about as "Conservative" as Joe Lieberman, in fact, some have mentioned Joe as a possible running mate, that is how NON-Conservative John McCain is.

Well, when the definition of liberal is anyone not sitting so far out in right field they are in the parking lot, then that would make McCain a liberal.

But in the real world, McCain is a conservative moderate on most issues.

And that is the biggest problem with modern party politics. It has gotten to the point that anyone who is not lock step with the official party slogan is classified as being the polar opposite. I refused to goose step to the democratic party which resulted in being told to stay home. And I'll be damed if I'll goose step to the republicans brand of Americanism.

What both parties seem to be unaware of is the number of people like myself, feeling disenfranchised by extremism, is growing with each election. Things keep going like they have been, it won't be too much longer before the "he's a flaming liberal!"/"no, he's a knuckle dragging conservative" bunch in the middle will be forming a viable third party. The the only question will be which current extreme party will get tossed out on its ear.

 

[Socrtease]

Well, when the definition of liberal is anyone not sitting so far out in right field they are in the parking lot, then that would make McCain a liberal.

But in the real world, McCain is a conservative moderate on most issues.

And that is the biggest problem with modern party politics. It has gotten to the point that anyone who is not lock step with the official party slogan is classified as being the polar opposite. I refused to goose step to the democratic party which resulted in being told to stay home. And I'll be damed if I'll goose step to the republicans brand of Americanism.

What both parties seem to be unaware of is the number of people like myself, feeling disenfranchised by extremism, is growing with each election. Things keep going like they have been, it won't be too much longer before the "he's a flaming liberal!"/"no, he's a knuckle dragging conservative" bunch in the middle will be forming a viable third party. The the only question will be which current extreme party will get tossed out on its ear.

First party to toss out their fringe wins. A quick move to the center, adopt some moderate economic policies, maybe a flat tax and stay out of peoples lives unless their actions pick pockets or break legs. That party would win 90% independent vote and put the other party in the minority for years.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

One of the main reasons I returned to this site, is my curiousity about who was supporting whom in this upcoming election. Reading the posts, I see some of the ones I figured would support Obama, are indeed supporting him. I don't see many Hillary supporters, or at least they don't seem to be very fired up about their candidate. Seems like there are a few more righties here, but they aren't exactly cheerleading for McCain. Sifting through the bashfests and flamewars, I am having a really difficult time determining who is voting for which liberal, so I decided a poll question was in order.

Dixie you wouldn't know what a true conservative is if he were all over you like cheap cologne.

Hell compared to you and other right wing reactionaries anything to the left of Atalla the Hun is a liberal.

John McCain is a traditional Republican conservative and just because he's not a reactionary right wingnut doesn't make him a liberal. Besides, at this point in time, showing off your conservative "street cred" aint going to win many elections these days.

For the first time in God's Knows When were going to have to choose between two really great candidates. All, who unlike the present post turtle in the White House, have proven their competency. I haven't made up my mind who I going to vote for in the general yet. But I am sure of one thing. Who ever I vote for is going to make a great President.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Well, when the definition of liberal is anyone not sitting so far out in right field they are in the parking lot, then that would make McCain a liberal.

But in the real world, McCain is a conservative moderate on most issues.

And that is the biggest problem with modern party politics. It has gotten to the point that anyone who is not lock step with the official party slogan is classified as being the polar opposite. I refused to goose step to the democratic party which resulted in being told to stay home. And I'll be damed if I'll goose step to the republicans brand of Americanism.

What both parties seem to be unaware of is the number of people like myself, feeling disenfranchised by extremism, is growing with each election. Things keep going like they have been, it won't be too much longer before the "he's a flaming liberal!"/"no, he's a knuckle dragging conservative" bunch in the middle will be forming a viable third party. The the only question will be which current extreme party will get tossed out on its ear.

There is no such thing as a "Conservative Moderate" this is a mythological creature. Conservatism is the opposite of Liberalism, there is no way to be partly one and partly the other. You either believe in the tenants of Liberalism or you believe in the tenants of Conservatism, they are not compatible with one another, so there is no "in-between". You want to say this is "extreme" but again, that is a label applied by opponents of Conservatism.

To clarify, Conservatives believe in the free market capitalist system, allowing free-enterprise to flourish, small government, low taxes, personal responsibility, and less government regulation. Nothing "extreme" there, it's mostly common sense. Liberals believe in socialist systems, restricting free-enterprise, larger government, higher taxes, no personal responsibility, and more government regulation. There is no room for a "moderate" or "centrist" position in any of these areas, you either support one view or the other. What has happened, is the left has successfully stigmatized Conservatism as "extreme" and so now the true Conservative is automatically viewed as an "extremist" when in fact, he is simply conservative.

You've not had to goose-step, neither have I, and I don't think America will ever be a place where the free people will have to goose-step. Again, this is a misnomer perpetrated by liberals who want to claim they are "moderate" instead of admitting they are liberal. In fact, the "moderate" label has become popular on both sides these days, but it is a cheap way to say you don't subscribe to any particular ideology, you are just like a sheep, you will follow whatever is "in" with the times. You may as well be a liberal, if that is the case.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Well, when the definition of liberal is anyone not sitting so far out in right field they are in the parking lot, then that would make McCain a liberal.

But in the real world, McCain is a conservative moderate on most issues.

And that is the biggest problem with modern party politics. It has gotten to the point that anyone who is not lock step with the official party slogan is classified as being the polar opposite. I refused to goose step to the democratic party which resulted in being told to stay home. And I'll be damed if I'll goose step to the republicans brand of Americanism.

What both parties seem to be unaware of is the number of people like myself, feeling disenfranchised by extremism, is growing with each election. Things keep going like they have been, it won't be too much longer before the "he's a flaming liberal!"/"no, he's a knuckle dragging conservative" bunch in the middle will be forming a viable third party. The the only question will be which current extreme party will get tossed out on its ear.

I essentially agree with your premis. Self identified "Conservatives" like Dixie don't understand that by definition they are "Reactionaries" and not conservatives.

But that's beside the point. I'm fed up with having to choose between the Nazi's or the Commies. Now we have the choice between a true conservative, a moderate and a center left liberal all three of whom are significantly better qualified then Bush ever was.

 

[Socrtease]

McCain has a lifetime conservative rating of 82% by the American Conservative Union. Last year he was rated 80% and the year before 65% so like Good Luck said, he is a moderate conservative.

http://conservative.org/index.html

 

[BRUTALITOPS]

Nope, McCain is a Liberal. He votes with Liberals, he sides with Liberals against Conservatives, he can't even bring himself to utter conservative words while campaigning for president, knowing that he needs the conservative base to be elected. It pains McCain to even be thought of as a Conservative, he will go out of his way to prove that charge wrong. If any opportunity to pounce on a weak conservative idea comes along, you can count on John to lead the "moderate" charge to make sure it dies.

No one who supported Campaign Finance Reform should ever even be considered Conservative, it is as Liberal an idea as we've ever adopted. His position on Illegal Immigration is nothing remotely close to Conservative, and although he hasn't really been clear on what his economic policy would be as president, I have a feeling it would be on the Liberal side as well. About the only area he can claim any association with Conservatives, is on the issue of Iraq. He is about as "Conservative" as Joe Lieberman, in fact, some have mentioned Joe as a possible running mate, that is how NON-Conservative John McCain is.

don't forget john kerry was thinking of adding him to the ticket in 04

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

don't forget john kerry was thinking of adding him to the ticket in 04

Didn't he actually ASK him, before he asked Edwards?

Good point Grind, the most Liberal senator to ever run for president, wanted John McCain to be his VP!

GoodLuck... when you ever hear Mott say "I essentially agree with your premis." It is a good indication you have espoused a totally cockamamie idea. As I pointed out, there is no "moderate" position on the issues which define "conservative" and "liberal" these days. You can be a liberal and try to pretend you are a "conservative moderate" or some other dreamed up name, but you either support the philosophies of conservatism or you don't. The biggest problem Conservatives have is too many of them have been brow-beaten by the Elite Liberals, and they have started thinking they need to try and reach out to the liberals, hide away their conservative principles for the moment and give the liberals some sugar, so they will be liked again. It's a problem because they don't understand it will not work, they will have sacrificed their conservative principles for nothing, and swallowed a full dose of pure uncut liberalism in the end. Older conservatives understand this, I think, it is the younger conservatives who think they can appease or out-liberal the liberals.

As for the stupid conservative rating % thrown out by Scrotumtease, since 89% of the Congressional business has been about Iraq and trying to impeach Bush, these numbers are not surprising. As I said, it is the ONE issue McCain has in common with Conservatives. In essentially every other area, John McCain is a liberal, co-sponsored legislation with Liberals, backed Liberal initiatives, voted with the Liberals, and formed coalitions against the Conservatives when he could. How any rational and thinking person could consider John McCain a true Conservative, is beyond me.

 

[Onceler]

It's so damned funny listening to dittoheads try to argue that McCain isn't "conservative," after 7+ years of defending the most liberal Republican President in modern times.

They're so mad about the gang of 14 & campaign finance (which is neither a conservative nor liberal issue). And they're probably still pissed that he dissed Falwell all those years ago, even though he has tripped over himself trying to suck up to evangelicals ever since. Rush tells them they have to hate McCain, so they do, but he's a low tax, small gov't, program-cutting abortion-opposing right-wing conservative.

Anyone who can look at his record & his positions on the issues and say "liberal" doesn't understand what a liberal is. I can understand how 7+ years of Bush redefining the GOP & conservatism can create some confusion on the matter, though...

 

[Topspin]

dixie how much are your kkk dues?

 

[Damocles]

It's so damned funny listening to dittoheads try to argue that McCain isn't "conservative," after 7+ years of defending the most liberal Republican President in modern times.

True that. I've been pointing out for 7 years the almost total liberalism of this President. His only claim to "conservatism" is really reactionary law based on the "No Gays" theory of government.

They're so mad about the gang of 14 & campaign finance (which is neither a conservative nor liberal issue). And they're probably still pissed that he dissed Falwell all those years ago, even though he has tripped over himself trying to suck up to evangelicals ever since. Rush tells them they have to hate McCain, so they do, but he's a low tax, small gov't, program-cutting abortion-opposing right-wing conservative.

I don't think it is Rush, I think it is an almost universal dislike of Ted Kennedy who most feel escaped justice.

Anyone who can look at his record & his positions on the issues and say "liberal" doesn't understand what a liberal is. I can understand how 7+ years of Bush redefining the GOP & conservatism can create some confusion on the matter, though...

Again, I agree with this one.