Why Do Religious Republicans Stridently Defend Greed?

S

signalmankenneth

Verified User
repjesus22.gif
One thing I am always struck by when listening to supposed morally virtuous Christian Republican types stridently defend the general environment of rampant greed and the specific, supposed virtues of the people engaging in recklessly greedy behavior is: How do they reconcile their vision of Christianity with a hearty defense of greed?*

I just can't wrap my mind around the fact that many so-called conservative Christians defend so virulently the notion that Americans should be given free reign to covet and amass hugely disproportionate fortunes in finance by gaming the system, especially in the face of so much Biblical scripture and doctrine that speaks forcefully about the evils of unchecked greed and avarice. These are the same conservative Christians that are able to turn on a dime and spend huge amounts of time and anger frothing at the mouth about sins like homosexuality, which Jesus himself never even bothered to mention. 4/12/2009 03:36:00 PM Posted by Metavirus


As a random blogger I came across noted:

When Jesus tossed over tables in the temple, he hadn’t just stumbled into an abortion clinic. He didn’t happen upon a homosexual tryst. He reacted in holy anger because he had walked into a cesspool of greed.

In fact, you can make a strong argument based on the full context of the Biblical narrative that Jesus was far more gracious and compassionate toward the woman caught in adultery than to the Pharisees and Sadducees whom he once called “vipers” or toward the money changers he saw cashing in on the floor of His father’s temple.

Say what you will about the fundamentally ludicrous tenets of religion, the thing that really gets to me about all of this is the cafeteria approach to the beliefs they claim to hold (i.e. "Well, today I'll have the anti-gay-marriage salad, stem-cell parfait and a diet coke, but please hold the deadly-sin-of-greed garnish, sex-before-marriage breadsticks and bearing-false-witness lemon squares."). It would be one thing if they actually believed in what their religion taught, but it's quite another when they choose what to defend or get worked up about based on where their darts happened to end up on the Pick Your Christian Beliefs(TM) dartboard.

* When I say "greed", I don't generally mean enjoying the rewards that come along with hard, productive work. What I mean is the rampant, obsessive, predatory avarice that came to dominate Wall Street, which Matt Yglesias describes so well in his post, The Value of Finance.
 
signalmankenneth said:
repjesus22.gif
One thing I am always struck by when listening to supposed morally virtuous Christian Republican types stridently defend the general environment of rampant greed and the specific, supposed virtues of the people engaging in recklessly greedy behavior is: How do they reconcile their vision of Christianity with a hearty defense of greed?*

I just can't wrap my mind around the fact that many so-called conservative Christians defend so virulently the notion that Americans should be given free reign to covet and amass hugely disproportionate fortunes in finance by gaming the system, especially in the face of so much Biblical scripture and doctrine that speaks forcefully about the evils of unchecked greed and avarice. These are the same conservative Christians that are able to turn on a dime and spend huge amounts of time and anger frothing at the mouth about sins like homosexuality, which Jesus himself never even bothered to mention. 4/12/2009 03:36:00 PM Posted by Metavirus


As a random blogger I came across noted:

When Jesus tossed over tables in the temple, he hadn’t just stumbled into an abortion clinic. He didn’t happen upon a homosexual tryst. He reacted in holy anger because he had walked into a cesspool of greed.

In fact, you can make a strong argument based on the full context of the Biblical narrative that Jesus was far more gracious and compassionate toward the woman caught in adultery than to the Pharisees and Sadducees whom he once called “vipers” or toward the money changers he saw cashing in on the floor of His father’s temple.

Say what you will about the fundamentally ludicrous tenets of religion, the thing that really gets to me about all of this is the cafeteria approach to the beliefs they claim to hold (i.e. "Well, today I'll have the anti-gay-marriage salad, stem-cell parfait and a diet coke, but please hold the deadly-sin-of-greed garnish, sex-before-marriage breadsticks and bearing-false-witness lemon squares."). It would be one thing if they actually believed in what their religion taught, but it's quite another when they choose what to defend or get worked up about based on where their darts happened to end up on the Pick Your Christian Beliefs(TM) dartboard.

* When I say "greed", I don't generally mean enjoying the rewards that come along with hard, productive work. What I mean is the rampant, obsessive, predatory avarice that came to dominate Wall Street, which Matt Yglesias describes so well in his post, The Value of Finance.
Click to expand...

"Well, today I'll have the anti-gay-marriage salad, stem-cell parfait and a diet coke, but please hold the deadly-sin-of-greed garnish, sex-before-marriage breadsticks and bearing-false-witness lemon squares."

:lmao:
 
I think it has something to do with freedom. The Protestant work-ethic formed the basis for the American economic system, along with Lockean philosophy. I know my Church has often been hostile to this system, not being protestant, but I wholehearted embrace American capitalism, because I believe in freedom. Period.
 
One more typical lie of the far left democrat, deliberately (or are you truly this completely ignorant?) misrepresenting, as well as stereotyping their opposition. The only "coveting" going on is the mindless socialists who hold to the philosophy that if it exists, they should have a part of it, however unearned that part may be.

Certainly people who amass vast fortunes and simply sit on them, or use them to gain power (ie: 99.999999% of successful politicians) are engaging in greed. However, the small business owner who decries a punatively progressive tax structure is not greedy. OTOH, a person who sits on their ass all day whacked out on drugs and partaking in the social support systems, and/or occupying a subsidized housing unit larger and better than many working families, aqnd/or buying fancy prepared foods with food stamps, and/or running 2 hour showers because their utilities are paid, and/or who get a $6000 federal tax return after paying in less than $1000, and/or many of the other abuses that take place under the present social assistance structure, are engaged in their own type of greed - the greed of taking from others with minimal (if any) effort to contribute.

The facts ignored by those who decry great wealth is most people of great wealth, or even medium wealth, contribute significantly - more than their tax burden in a lot of cases - to the betterment of their community and society. Most public libraries exist because one or more benefactors contributed enough to get them started. There are more youth programs run by churches and private organizations than by government programs. I doubt that there is a single university in the U.S. that does not have a building which was paid for, either a large percentage or in its entirety, by a benefactor. Private donations to health causes outweigh government spending by an order of magnitude, much of which comes from the upper.

Of course there are exceptions; people who are truly greedy, for wealth and for power. The current sitting president is one, the current sitting Secretary of State is another, and the immediate past president comes from a whole family of them. But they are a small minority of those who have/control great wealth; just as those who abuse the welfare systems are in the minority of those who use it because they genuinely need it.

Greed was, and is, THE major cause of our current economic woes. Of that there is no doubt. But it is not just the greed of the super wealthy. It is not just the bank managers and corporate CEOs whose actions resulted in their corporations crashing while they sailed away on bonuses and golden parachutes. Also involved were the masses, the ones buying cars they could not really afford, or choosing the 5 bedroom house over the 3 bedroom house, the ones who could not wait for that 54" wide screen TV so put it on their credit card along with a bajillion other purchases until they cannot meet their payments schedules.

In short, it's not just the rich who were greedy, and not just the greedy rich who drove the economy over the cliff.
 
Good Luck said:
One more typical lie of the far left democrat, deliberately (or are you truly this completely ignorant?) misrepresenting, as well as stereotyping their opposition. The only "coveting" going on is the mindless socialists who hold to the philosophy that if it exists, they should have a part of it, however unearned that part may be.

Certainly people who amass vast fortunes and simply sit on them, or use them to gain power (ie: 99.999999% of successful politicians) are engaging in greed. However, the small business owner who decries a punatively progressive tax structure is not greedy. OTOH, a person who sits on their ass all day whacked out on drugs and partaking in the social support systems, and/or occupying a subsidized housing unit larger and better than many working families, aqnd/or buying fancy prepared foods with food stamps, and/or running 2 hour showers because their utilities are paid, and/or who get a $6000 federal tax return after paying in less than $1000, and/or many of the other abuses that take place under the present social assistance structure, are engaged in their own type of greed - the greed of taking from others with minimal (if any) effort to contribute.

The facts ignored by those who decry great wealth is most people of great wealth, or even medium wealth, contribute significantly - more than their tax burden in a lot of cases - to the betterment of their community and society. Most public libraries exist because one or more benefactors contributed enough to get them started. There are more youth programs run by churches and private organizations than by government programs. I doubt that there is a single university in the U.S. that does not have a building which was paid for, either a large percentage or in its entirety, by a benefactor. Private donations to health causes outweigh government spending by an order of magnitude, much of which comes from the upper.

Of course there are exceptions; people who are truly greedy, for wealth and for power. The current sitting president is one, the current sitting Secretary of State is another, and the immediate past president comes from a whole family of them. But they are a small minority of those who have/control great wealth; just as those who abuse the welfare systems are in the minority of those who use it because they genuinely need it.

Greed was, and is, THE major cause of our current economic woes. Of that there is no doubt. But it is not just the greed of the super wealthy. It is not just the bank managers and corporate CEOs whose actions resulted in their corporations crashing while they sailed away on bonuses and golden parachutes. Also involved were the masses, the ones buying cars they could not really afford, or choosing the 5 bedroom house over the 3 bedroom house, the ones who could not wait for that 54" wide screen TV so put it on their credit card along with a bajillion other purchases until they cannot meet their payments schedules.

In short, it's not just the rich who were greedy, and not just the greedy rich who drove the economy over the cliff.
Click to expand...

Yes, it was the greedy who sent the economy over the edge.

But the idea that the religious right pick and choose which parts they want to obey and which they want to ignore is spot on. I am not saying all, but enough to make it worthwhile to discuss.
 
signalmankenneth said:
One thing I am always struck by when listening to supposed morally virtuous Christian Republican types stridently defend the general environment of rampant greed and the specific, supposed virtues of the people engaging in recklessly greedy behavior is: How do they reconcile their vision of Christianity with a hearty defense of greed?*...
Click to expand...
You've got it wrong. I defend the freedom to be greedy.
 
Good Luck said:
One more typical lie of the far left democrat, deliberately (or are you truly this completely ignorant?) misrepresenting, as well as stereotyping their opposition. The only "coveting" going on is the mindless socialists who hold to the philosophy that if it exists, they should have a part of it, however unearned that part may be.

Certainly people who amass vast fortunes and simply sit on them, or use them to gain power (ie: 99.999999% of successful politicians) are engaging in greed. However, the small business owner who decries a punatively progressive tax structure is not greedy. OTOH, a person who sits on their ass all day whacked out on drugs and partaking in the social support systems, and/or occupying a subsidized housing unit larger and better than many working families, aqnd/or buying fancy prepared foods with food stamps, and/or running 2 hour showers because their utilities are paid, and/or who get a $6000 federal tax return after paying in less than $1000, and/or many of the other abuses that take place under the present social assistance structure, are engaged in their own type of greed - the greed of taking from others with minimal (if any) effort to contribute.

The facts ignored by those who decry great wealth is most people of great wealth, or even medium wealth, contribute significantly - more than their tax burden in a lot of cases - to the betterment of their community and society. Most public libraries exist because one or more benefactors contributed enough to get them started. There are more youth programs run by churches and private organizations than by government programs. I doubt that there is a single university in the U.S. that does not have a building which was paid for, either a large percentage or in its entirety, by a benefactor. Private donations to health causes outweigh government spending by an order of magnitude, much of which comes from the upper.

Of course there are exceptions; people who are truly greedy, for wealth and for power. The current sitting president is one, the current sitting Secretary of State is another, and the immediate past president comes from a whole family of them. But they are a small minority of those who have/control great wealth; just as those who abuse the welfare systems are in the minority of those who use it because they genuinely need it.

Greed was, and is, THE major cause of our current economic woes. Of that there is no doubt. But it is not just the greed of the super wealthy. It is not just the bank managers and corporate CEOs whose actions resulted in their corporations crashing while they sailed away on bonuses and golden parachutes. Also involved were the masses, the ones buying cars they could not really afford, or choosing the 5 bedroom house over the 3 bedroom house, the ones who could not wait for that 54" wide screen TV so put it on their credit card along with a bajillion other purchases until they cannot meet their payments schedules.

In short, it's not just the rich who were greedy, and not just the greedy rich who drove the economy over the cliff.
Click to expand...

:blah:

:rant:
 
Cancel3 said:
Yes, it was the greedy who sent the economy over the edge.

But the idea that the religious right pick and choose which parts they want to obey and which they want to ignore is spot on. I am not saying all, but enough to make it worthwhile to discuss.
Click to expand...
In the first place, the base assumption that the levels of greed rampant from economic decisions over the last 20 years was a DESIRED result is plain wrong

Second, if you think supporting an open capitalism economy goes against Christianity, then you are completely deluded as to what Christianity is about. Christianity is not about forcing others to obey your (or our) version of what Christ commands us to do. It is about doing it yourself BECAUSE you follow Christ. Christ did not tell us to give others cloaks from people richer than we are. He told us to give them OUR cloak. Nor did he tell us to give our cloaks as proof of our faith. The central command of Christianity is to accept Jesus the Christ as our lord and savior. IF we do so, then we will be spiritually compelled to treat others with the love and compassion He showed all of Mankind. The compulsion must come from within, or it means nothing. Forced compulsion as being "more Christ like" simply indicates ignorance of Christ.

The claim that supporting open capitalism somehow goes against Christianity is simply incorrect. What is supported is freedom, which allows people to either follow the commands of Christ, or not, according to their own conscience, not according to a government imposed moral code.

And let's not mention that the available economic alternative is supporting a morally corrupt government taking vast quantities of wealth to be squandered on poloicies and programs already proven to be ineffective and wasteful, if not harmful, and who will also spend it on things that are far worse than greed.

Additionally, there are other issues besides economics. The democrats currently support as "freedom" a practice I find morally corrupt in the extreme. They want to usurp enumerated constitutional protections. They want to expand federal controls WAY beyond the limits of the Constitution.

They once supported a philosophy of racial integration (in fact they still claim to do so), which made me a staunch democrat for many years. But the policies they put in place to supposedly advance their purported philosophy have ultimately failed miserably, though they refuse to admit it. Instead of racial integration the current democratic party USES racial tensions to gain political power. They purposely pit minorities against the caucasian majority while lying about who is ac ting racist. They have used welfare policies to literally enslave people - especially minorities - to the government. (try living as a NAtive American on a reservation if you do not believe me.) I can no longer support those policies. Better a party that claims racism is no longer a major problem (ie: ignores the problems that still exist) than supporting a party that continues to support policies which have been ultimately harmful to the advertised intent while deliberately exasperating racial tensions during political campaigns.

To sum up:
1: to assume the level of greed we see is a desired consequence of free capitalism is a false assumption.

2: to assume supporting capitalism - even knowing it leads to greed - goes against Christ simply shows an ignorance of the principles of Christianity.

3: to assume that other issues are "non-issues" ("clinging to guns and bibles?" Sheesh!) in the face of economic problems just shows which side places money at the top of priorities. Some do not place money that high.
 
signalmankenneth said:
One thing I am always struck by when listening to supposed morally virtuous Christian Republican types stridently defend the general environment of rampant greed and the specific, supposed virtues of the people engaging in recklessly greedy behavior is: How do they reconcile their vision of Christianity with a hearty defense of greed?*
Click to expand...

Probably the same way those on the left reconcile funding their own pet causes and social experiments at the expense of everybody EXCEPT themselves.

Stealing is stealing and stealing from others via force using the Federal Government as a proxy to fund the "causes" YOU care about is still stealing.
 
Probably the same way those on the right reconcile funding their own pet causes and social experiments at the expense of everybody EXCEPT themselves.

Stealing is stealing and stealing from others via force using the Federal Government as a proxy to fund the "causes" YOU care about is still stealing.
 
uscitizen said:
Probably the same way those on the right reconcile funding their own pet causes and social experiments at the expense of everybody EXCEPT themselves.

Stealing is stealing and stealing from others via force using the Federal Government as a proxy to fund the "causes" YOU care about is still stealing.
Click to expand...

I swear there is an echo on this site, cool effect but somewhat annoying ... perhaps the site admin is hosting the server in a cave or something ? :D
 
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