How does it feel to now be a taxpayer?

[apple0154]

Not according to the SCOTUS ruling... money we've already set aside for other things (like EIC) can't be touched to pay for this. Obamacare will have to be paid for in addition to EIC. But I really do think the Liberals haven't grasped the enormity of the decision and what it established as precedent with the individual mandate. This absolves government from any worries about having to pay for things, they simply pass it along to the taxpayer to take care of in the form of an individual mandate.

Now I really don't care how progressive you are with taxation, even if you wanted to tax the rich people 200%, it won't be enough to cover the cost of insuring everyone. So ultimately, the cost for this will have to be shared by everyone, and there will be very few exceptions. The court has ruled you can't rob Medicare to fund this, but I suppose you could abolish Medicare, but heavens to mercatroid, could you ever imagine Democrats suggesting that?

We can quickly do the math here... 320 million Americans to be insured... Minus out those who are covered by Medicare and we have about 300 million. The average monthly cost of a typical comprehensive 80/20 insurance plan, is about $400. Now, if we cut out 150 million of the 300 million who have to pay for this, it's about $800 a month, and very few people want to, or can afford to, pay $800 a month for health insurance. So the cost has to be distributed among almost ALL the people, with FEW exceptions, otherwise, the math doesn't work out, it is too outrageous to even consider. This does not factor in the premium increases that will happen, as the result of more and more claims from people who have pre-existing illnesses, which are now covered and have to be paid for by the insurance provider. Their rates will go up, as time goes by, there is no other possibility. Pinheads will scoff at my calculations and numbers, but I will suggest that in 50 years, you will be laughing at the very idea of 'health insurance' for $400 a month!

But there is another possibility. This is the first step towards a one payer/universal system. The more control the government gets the better position it will be in to negotiate prices on everything from drugs to operations.

For example, the government could implement a doctor training program whereby the government would subsidize medical school tuition. In exchange the graduate, the doctor, would work at a hospital and part of his/her salary would be directed towards repayment. Now, let's not forget the cost of student loans. They were trying to raise them to over 6% when the average savings account interest today is 1% or 2%. Again, someone trying to make money off the medical system.

There are many people who could learn to be a doctor but don't have the funds. A concerted effort is needed to increase enrolment. Or a system set up like in certain countries where one requires a referral in order to see a specialist so one does not take up the time of a heart specialist because they have heartburn.

There are numerous ways to save money but the government has to have the power to implement those changes and yesterday's ruling is a great start in that direction. It's not going to be changed overnight after over a century of private medical. Well, not really a century. Actually, since the beginning of recorded history. This idea that private enterprise or the marketplace or the invisible hand will straighten everything out is sheer nonsense. They've had since the beginning of time to figure it out.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Insurance premiums were rising by 30% or more each year, long before anyone knew who Obama was. Nice try.

Not factually accurate, sorry. The rate increases for 2010, were the largest single-year increase in recent history. The cost has been rising, but with the passage of Obamacare, it has skyrocketed, and people who have company-sponsored insurance, are seeing that every day.

That was the reason for HC legislation. Of course, a public option would've been all that was necessary, but the lobbyists wouldn't allow that.

Well if that was the reason, it obviously failed, didn't it? A public option would require this to be a matter of interstate commerce, which the court ruling would have struck down. You should be happy that it wasn't established with a public option, as it would have been totally defeated with this ruling.

Steal from Medicare?

Do you mean 'fund Bush's unfunded Medicare D'?

No, I mean the $600 billion that Obamacare was 'transferring' over from Medicare, to fund Obamacare.
Also, the portion of the states' Medicare surplus fund, which the bill was also mandating.

Those provisions were struck down in the ruling, so now... you really don't have any way of paying for this, except to levy a tax on virtually every American.

Insurance is 'going to get expensive'? Most people get insurance through an employer, so they don't feel the premium increases that have been handed down every year for decades.

Yeah, well... there again... it's a case of 'careful what you wish for' on this... If the government can mandate that you personally purchase an insurance policy, why would an employer be compelled to even offer this to you? Do they help you get your drivers license if you don't have one? If you don't have a social security number or birth certificate, are they compelled to help you obtain it? No... these are things you are expected to have, because they are somewhat required. In the past, insurance was a luxury of sorts, a perk.. something you didn't have to get, but it was good to have... and employers began to use it to lure prospects. The concept of "individual mandation" changes the whole dynamic, in a way that I don't think many of us have totally grasped just yet.

For the rest of us, this is a baby step toward a real solution.

Let me clarify who "the rest of us" is, exactly. You and your lot, represent about 21% of America.

The other 79% of us, are about fed up with YOU and your "solutions."

 

[anatta]

First...you'll be getting medicare, not caid.

For those who get a tax refund, it'll be taken from that.

For those that don't pay, they'll have liens against holdings. Someone posted a link to the particulars in one of these threads. I didn't check it.

thanks. been so long,since i carried insurance, i even get the terms mixed up .LOL.

So the IRS will do the enforcement? PS. I guess that's the end of my free clinic?

 

[Howey]

No, I mean the $600 billion that Obamacare was 'transferring' over from Medicare, to fund Obamacare.

More disinformation...the 600b comes from partially from eliminating fraud. Like what Rick Scott did. As well as lowering costs, etc. Oh. And taxing the rich! w00t!!

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

But there is another possibility. This is the first step towards a one payer/universal system. The more control the government gets the better position it will be in to negotiate prices on everything from drugs to operations.

For example, the government could implement a doctor training program whereby the government would subsidize medical school tuition. In exchange the graduate, the doctor, would work at a hospital and part of his/her salary would be directed towards repayment. Now, let's not forget the cost of student loans. They were trying to raise them to over 6% when the average savings account interest today is 1% or 2%. Again, someone trying to make money off the medical system.

There are many people who could learn to be a doctor but don't have the funds. A concerted effort is needed to increase enrolment. Or a system set up like in certain countries where one requires a referral in order to see a specialist so one does not take up the time of a heart specialist because they have heartburn.

There are numerous ways to save money but the government has to have the power to implement those changes and yesterday's ruling is a great start in that direction. It's not going to be changed overnight after over a century of private medical. Well, not really a century. Actually, since the beginning of recorded history. This idea that private enterprise or the marketplace or the invisible hand will straighten everything out is sheer nonsense. They've had since the beginning of time to figure it out.

But the government CAN'T control it. It's not interstate commerce. That was made clear in the ruling yesterday, and it simply doesn't matter anymore.

Now, if the PEOPLE decide, they want to fund this or that little doctor program you have dreamed up... they can vote for politicians who will pass a tax to fund it! Or not! It's entirely up to the people to decide what they want to be taxed for. That was also determined by SCOTUS.

 

[Onceler]

I don't feel any different.

 

[Jarod]

I'm just wondering, I know a lot of things are being lost in the celebration, as pinheads are elated their Obamacare survived a SCOTUS challenge, but I was curious as to how many of you now feel, being a taxpayer for the first time? I know you probably haven't thought about that much, and I should probably wait until you have your first tax bill to ask, but I was curious.

What's that? You didn't think this would effect you because you don't make enough to pay taxes? Well, that was BEFORE an individual mandate to buy insurance, became a tax. Now that this matter is settled, all that is left is to figure up the total cost of Obamacare, and divide it up evenly among the people. What's that? You assumed this tax would be like all the other tax, something we could pawn off on the wealthy to pay and never worry with? Again, that was before the high court ruled that individual mandates are taxes. You can't expect others to cover your individual mandate, can you? Wow... I think some of you might have expected that, I can see the shocked looks on your faces as you read this.

Guess what wasn't in the SCOTUS ruling? That all taxes must be paid by wealthy people and the poor/middle-class are given a pass. The overwhelming and enormous cost of providing insurance coverage for every American, can't be paid for with rich people tax. Remember, they just got hit with a new individual mandate tax too. No, the cost will have to be shared by all, since we are all going to be required to buy insurance. This means, a very significant number of you, who have never had to worry with taxes, are going to get to experience that for the first time, and I think it is wonderful.

This might actually be the best thing that ever happened, if it results in all of you people becoming tax payers, who would otherwise just be a drain. Oh now, I can almost hear the tear-filled emotes already... wuh, what about the poor and elderly? Well, as always, the truly poor and elderly are going to be care for through Medicare, which fortunately, was rewarded with getting back over a half-trillion of it's own dollars, in light of this SCOTUS ruling. We'll still have to find a way to shore that program up for the Baby Boomers, but hey... by then, most of you will be old pros at this tax stuff, we can do it!

Now I realize, some of you have really shitty jobs that don't pay a whole lot and don't have all that great of an insurance plan, if they have one at all... but just think of how much better things are going to be, when you feel the satisfaction of paying for your own health insurance? What's that? You thought someone else was going to pay for your health insurance? LOL... who, the insurance fairy? No, you see... you thought that the government was going to end up paying, but that's not what the court ruled, was it? They ruled the individual mandate was constitutional, therefore, the government doesn't have to pay for jack shit, they simply delegate how much you owe the tax man for your health insurance coverage, unless you provide your own... and good luck with that these days. For some odd and peculiar reason, mandating that each individual purchase insurance, somehow makes it more valuable and cost more money... who'da thunk it? But in the long run, it's certainly worth it, I mean, what if we get sick, right?

Anyway... I know this kind of premature, and I should have probably waited until you have to pay your first tax bill, or maybe... don't get that nice cushy refund check you were depending on for vacation... but I was genuinely excited about all the new tax payers we now have! I really do think you guys are going to love the rewarding feeling of looking at your checks, and seeing an ever-bigger chunk of it going to fund the government you desired. And I promise I'll be right here to make sure no one denies you the satisfaction of knowing the joy of taxation.

Ive been paying income taxes since I was 15 years old.
I will not have to pay this new tax because Ive done the responsable thing and purchashed health care insurance for myself and my family.
The only people who will have to pay the tax is people who have not done the responsable thing and chosen to depend on the taxpayer in the event they get sick.

 

[anatta]

I don't feel any different.

no gnashing of teeth? no predictions of doom? No euphoria?
We gotta get you politicized. Turn on FOX, and MSNBC. we'll tape your eyes open like Clockwork Orange

we'll make you FEEL.

 

[Jarod]

Yah, well.. unfortunately, not everyone will be able to afford it. Insurance cost has risen about 30% since Obamacare passed, and that was BEFORE the SCOTUS mandated that every single American purchase it. Now that insurance companies have something that everyone has to buy, you can expect the rates to increase... especially since they will now be covering all the pre-existing illnesses out there, and 'children' until they are 26.

No, it's going to get quite expensive, but you've planned for this, right? I mean, you had it all figured out how we could do this and not cost anything, didn't you? Oh yeah, that's right... the SCOTUS isn't going to allow you to steal $600 billion from Medicare to fund this now.... oooo... that's a problem. You see, the key can be found in the term, "individual mandate." I know that many of you have been accustomed to a system of entitlement, whereby, nothing could be 'mandated' or even expected from the 'less fortunate' souls out there, but the court has changed this philosophy now. You will be required to pay for your health care insurance, and it won't matter if you are struggling and having difficulty getting by, it's still a mandate and you are still required to follow it.

There is an income threshold and if you dont make a certian amount of money, you are expempt from the tax!

 

[Althea]

Not factually accurate, sorry. The rate increases for 2010, were the largest single-year increase in recent history. The cost has been rising, but with the passage of Obamacare, it has skyrocketed, and people who have company-sponsored insurance, are seeing that every day.

Not true. Wellpoint had a 30+% increase in Cal. long before Obamacare. The increases you now see are still due to the fact that there is no control over what insurers can charge.

Well if that was the reason, it obviously failed, didn't it? A public option would require this to be a matter of interstate commerce, which the court ruling would have struck down. You should be happy that it wasn't established with a public option, as it would have been totally defeated with this ruling.

How would opening Medicare up for a buy in, have anything to do w/interstate commerce?

No, I mean the $600 billion that Obamacare was 'transferring' over from Medicare, to fund Obamacare.
Also, the portion of the states' Medicare surplus fund, which the bill was also mandating.

Those provisions were struck down in the ruling, so now... you really don't have any way of paying for this, except to levy a tax on virtually every American

. Are you talking about the Medicaid holdback that was struck down?

Or are you parroting bogus talking points?

Romney said, "Obamacare takes $500 billion out of Medicare and funds Obamacare." He's right that future savings from Medicare are planned to offset new costs created by the law. But the way he phrases it gives the impression that the law takes money that was already allocated to Medicare and funds the new health care law with it. In fact, the law uses a number of measures to try to reduce the rapid growth of future Medicare spending. Those savings are then applied to costs created by the law -- especially coverage for the uninsured -- so that the overall law doesn't add to the deficit. We rate his statement Half True

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...y/500-billion-medicare-obamacare-romney-says/

Yeah, well... there again... it's a case of 'careful what you wish for' on this... If the government can mandate that you personally purchase an insurance policy, why would an employer be compelled to even offer this to you? Do they help you get your drivers license if you don't have one? If you don't have a social security number or birth certificate, are they compelled to help you obtain it? No... these are things you are expected to have, because they are somewhat required. In the past, insurance was a luxury of sorts, a perk.. something you didn't have to get, but it was good to have... and employers began to use it to lure prospects. The concept of "individual mandation" changes the whole dynamic, in a way that I don't think many of us have totally grasped just yet.

Saddling employers with the burden of supplying healthcare, could be viewed as a job killer. And...all costs associated with doing so, have been paid for by taxpayers.

So changing this dynamic can't hurt.

Let me clarify who "the rest of us" is, exactly. You and your lot, represent about 21% of America.

The other 79% of us, are about fed up with YOU and your "solutions."

Well, of course you are. You get yours, and that's all that concerns you. I'm tired of paying for your healthcare.

 

[The Dude]

You know Dude, that's essentially the point of why the right opposes HC reform. They got there's and now they're pissed that primary care is going to be made affordable for those who have less economic resources. Like that is somehow going to affect them?

The next step to improve health care outcomes in our nation is to bust the monopoly MD's have in our country. We need more primary care physicians. We need more students graduating from Medical School and going into primary care. Only in the US does it cost $250,000 to $500,000 to educate a Doctor. The MD's monopoly needs to be busted so that eliminate these artificial barriers that keep costs for primary care artificially high. We need more competition in the HC market and not less. This monopoly needs to end.

The economic recovery takes off from here! At the very least you have removed uncertainty! Only wingnuts will Indian dance to repeal, sane people will operate in the progressive educated environment we live in.

 

[Jarod]

I also forgot to mention....

Not only will I not have to pay the tax... I get to keep my insurance. See, I am insured by the "Florida Pre-Existing Insurance Program" that would not exist unless the ACA had been passed, and would have been done away with had the S.Ct. struck it down. MY wife did not sleep Wenesday night worried that I was going to lose my insuance.

Her Facebook update Thursday was, "Thank You Justice Roberts!"

 

[apple0154]

But the government CAN'T control it. It's not interstate commerce. That was made clear in the ruling yesterday, and it simply doesn't matter anymore.

Now, if the PEOPLE decide, they want to fund this or that little doctor program you have dreamed up... they can vote for politicians who will pass a tax to fund it! Or not! It's entirely up to the people to decide what they want to be taxed for. That was also determined by SCOTUS.

Exactly. Now the people can see what a government medical plan can do. They didn't have that choice before because the government couldn't get its act together. I've been saying precisely that from the beginning. The citizens in every country with government medical do vote for their medical plan. They insist their government keep it. Now US citizens will experience children being covered until 26 years of age. They'll experience pre-existing conditions being covered. They'll want to keep those things and lots more as the plan is fine tuned. The point being there is a plan to work with. People have seen the government is able to intervene in the medical fiasco that has been going on.

A few days ago I was reading something about a government plan being discussed in 1912! One hundred years ago!

My take on Justice Robert's ruling that the plan was OK if considered a tax was the result of him realizing something had to be done. He could have easily taken the Conservative stance and mentioned nothing about going that route and just scrapped the plan but he probably realized no political party would have picked up the ball in the foreseeable future and nothing would have progressed. He did the enlightened thing. Enough is enough. It's been debated, one way or another, for a century. Finally the Democrats got something passed and my belief is Roberts wasn't going to abort the start of it's life, in a manner of speaking.

 

[Jarod]

I am enjoying the Republican hypocracy as they rail against a plan innitiated by Teddy Rosevelt, promoted by Richard Nixon, Promoted by Newt Gingrich and written by Mitt Romney.. Simply because Barak Obama was able to get it done!

 

[The Dude]

I am enjoying the Republican hypocracy as they rail against a plan innitiated by Teddy Rosevelt, promoted by Richard Nixon, Promoted by Newt Gingrich and written by Mitt Romney.. Simply because Barak Obama was able to get it done!

See definition- flat earther

 

[PostmodernProphet]

money we've already set aside for other things (like EIC) can't be touched to pay for this.

no problem then....we've never set aside money to pay for EIC.......

 

[PostmodernProphet]

The average monthly cost of a typical comprehensive 80/20 insurance plan, is about $400.

???....I pay over $600 with a $5k deductible....

 

[PostmodernProphet]

More disinformation...the 600b comes from partially from eliminating fraud.

which should have been eliminated BEFORE discussing health care......

 

[PostmodernProphet]

Ive been paying income taxes since I was 15 years old.
I will not have to pay this new tax because Ive done the responsable thing and purchashed health care insurance for myself and my family.
The only people who will have to pay the tax is people who have not done the responsable thing and chosen to depend on the taxpayer in the event they get sick.

no, you will be paying taxes to cover the cost of insuring those who can't afford purchase health care insurance.....

 

[Onceler]

no, you will be paying taxes to cover the cost of insuring those who can't afford purchase health care insurance.....

Don't we basically do that now for most of the uninsured?