Admit it Dems: Ryan scares the shit out of you

[USFREEDOM911]

:0) You must be joking. You should put that fucking Ayn Rand book down .. in fact, burn it.

Was it not YOU who admonished me for suggesting that I took things personally just a few short posts ago? Yes, it was you.

You keep dancing and running brother .. hiding behind what you think I meant instead of addressing the point straightforward.

Anyone, any political philosophy, that reaches to cut off food stamps, cut programs designed for the education, health, and well-being of children, and look to cut the only things keeping millions of Americans seniors alive .. at the same time we're spending astronomical amounts of money on war, the military/industrial complex, and bailouts to rich people .. then they don't give a damn about the human condition.

Why is it so necessary foryour argument to avoid talking about government programs?

Because your argument is absolutely silly when they are included.

Dance .. because you aren't going to address this telling point.

Your ridiculous assertion that compassion leads to laziness is just stupid and right out of Rand's dumb ass head .. who later in life looked to the GOVERNMENT to support her. The belief that compassion leads to laziness is just stupid. Nobody wants to live off food stamps .. but when you have a family and there is little to no work to be found, you can at least keep your family sort of fed.

Thousands line up for jobs fair in Los Angeles

Thousands line up at jobs fair in Prince George's County
http://www.wjla.com/articles/2011/0...obs-fair-in-prince-george-s-county-66935.html

Thousands Camp Out in Atlanta for Job Fair as Jobless Rate Rises
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/thousands-show-job-fair-jobless-rate-rises/story?id=14336519

Thousands Line Up To Attend Rutgers Job Fair

Thousands line up for huge Orange County job fair
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/job-304619-fair-jobs.html

Thousands line up for Indianapolis job fair
http://www.fox59.com/videobeta/260c...fe26a61db/News/Thousands-line-up-for-job-fair

Thousands of VETERANS line up in Washington for job fair
http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...for-job-fair/2012/01/18/gIQAI4pI9P_story.html

Are the vets lazy too?

Guess what else they're lining up for?

Thousands Line Up for Promise of Free Health Care in LA
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/13/health/13clinic.html

Thousands line up for free health care in South Carolina
http://www.beloitdailynews.com/heal...cle_c03aa918-c1e0-11e0-ba74-001cc4c03286.html

Thousands Line Up For RAM Free Medical Clinic In Oakland
http://myhealthcafe.com/forum/the-c...ine-up-for-ram-free-medical-clinic-in-oakland

Thousands Line Up for Free Medical Care In Sacramento
http://myhealthcafe.com/thousands-line-up-for-free-medical-care-in-sacramento

I could go on and on and on .. but I've given up on this conversation brother.

I like you .. always have ..but there is something seriously reptilian about what you think compassion is.

Your presentation of the "thousands" that are lining up for jobs, doesn't mean that everyone that lined up aren't already workikng.
Many job fairs have people attend that are already working; but are looking for something else, for any number of reasons.

AND

Thousands lining up for something that's FREE doesn't mean that they NEED it and there might be some of those people just wanting something for FREE.

Put an add in the paper and offer a FREE couch and see how many people respond. Their response doesn't mean that they don't already have a couch or even need one.

 

[Damocles]

That's great.

So if an economy not in a recession is a "terrible economy," what do you call an economy that has been in recession for 13 months and just suffered the worst quarter since the 1950s?

I call the poor recovery a result of the Obama stimulus plan.

While you don't want to admit it, and I can understand why, the recession he inherited that hit at the beginning of Bush's first term and was deepened by 9/11 was better handled and never went as deep as it could have due to his policy. Another reality is that, while he didn't do enough and we agree on that, Bush predicted the next recession and tried to get Congress to act to forestall it, unfortunately FM & FM had bought nearly every politician in Congress most of whom would not even admit that there might be a problem.

 

[blackascoal]

Your presentation of the "thousands" that are lining up for jobs, doesn't mean that everyone that lined up aren't already workikng.
Many job fairs have people attend that are already working; but are looking for something else, for any number of reasons.

AND

Thousands lining up for something that's FREE doesn't mean that they NEED it and there might be some of those people just wanting something for FREE.

Put an add in the paper and offer a FREE couch and see how many people respond. Their response doesn't mean that they don't already have a couch or even need one.

MORONIC .. and expected.

 

[USFREEDOM911]

MORONIC .. and expected.

While I had no intentions of referring to your post as being moronic, you would know; so OK, your presentation of the "thousands" was moronic.

 

[Rune]

Not an opinion Dune. It is a fact. No matter how much you pretend otherwise, the economy was already in the downswing when Bush was sworn in. He was a horrible President fiscally, but that doesn't give you the right to lie about what happened.

Sorry, looks like you are wrong.

The early 2000s recession was a decline in economic activity which occurred mainly in developed countries. The recession affected the European Union mostly during 2000 and 2001 and the United States mostly in 2002 and 2003. The UK, Canada and Australia avoided the recession for the most part, while Russia, a nation that did not experience prosperity during the 1990s, began to recover. Japan's 1990s recession continued. The early 2000s recession had been predicted by economists for years, because the boom of the 1990s, which was accompanied by both low inflation and low unemployment, had already ceased in East Asia during the 1997 Asian financial crisis. The early 2000s recession was not as bad as many predicted it would be, nor was it as bad as either of the two previous worldwide recessions. Some economists in the United States object to characterizing it as a "recession," since there were no two consecutive quarters of negative growth.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_2000s_recession

The fake recession was Bush's excuse to start giving the rich tax breaks.

 

[Rune]

I call the poor recovery a result of the Obama stimulus plan.

While you don't want to admit it, and I can understand why, the recession he inherited that hit at the beginning of Bush's first term and was deepened by 9/11 was better handled and never went as deep as it could have due to his policy. Another reality is that, while he didn't do enough and we agree on that, Bush predicted the next recession and tried to get Congress to act to forestall it, unfortunately FM & FM had bought nearly every politician in Congress most of whom would not even admit that there might be a problem.

I call the present state of the economy not a weak recovery, but rather the begining of a different economy.
With so many manufacturing jobs gone, never to return, housing starts down for the forseeable future, recovery like you wish for is not coming. This has little to do with Obama's misperformance, much more to do with the great theft of wealth perpetrated over the last 20 years by the neo-cons and their 1% employers.
Keep blaming Obama all you want, I will keep laughing at you and crying for our children.

 

[apple0154]

Well the Enron employees also paid in their money, and the company had promised to pay them as well. But like SS, when the time came to pay up, the money was not there, it had been pilfered. So which system is "better for the people?" The capitalist system, whereby Enron can be hauled into court and the people who took the money, held accountable and punished ...or the Government system, where politicians have helped themselves to the money, and will never be held accountable for their theft? It doesn't matter who promised what, Apple. I can promise you I'll give you a million dollars on Friday, that doesn't mean you are going to get it.

Exactly, so who would I trust more; you or the US government? Why do foreign countries keep buying US government bonds? That's why the best system for the people is government and not an Enron type system. The Enron folks may go to jail but that does nothing to help the people who lost money. Here's the choice; put the crook in jail and receive no money or don't put the crook in jail and receive your money? I know which one I'd choose.

Well no, the government can't "simply raise taxes" and pay back a trust fund that took decades to accumulate. And why should more taxes be paid to replace money that was taken? Isn't that like saying... Well Enron could have just given everyone a pay cut and used that money to pay the employees retirement? We've already paid taxes, just like the Enron people had already invested their money. Now the money is gone. With Enron, we could go after the culprits, put them in prison for what they did, but that doesn't apply to those who pilfered our SS trust fund. You keep pointing out a 'trust factor' ...the promise made... but Enron also had a trust factor, promises had been made. The difference is, when Enron's promise was broken, we had legal recourse. When the government breaks its promise, you're shit outta luck. PAY MORE TAXES BITCH! That's your solution!

Yes, that is my solution. For some people SS is all they have. Surely being pro-life you wouldn't want those people to die, would you?

But there again... someone who is motivated and determined to not be poor, will not let adversity triumph. Hardships and struggles feed their motivation. They don't sit around having a pity party about what is not their fault and why they couldn't help it, and who is to blame. That's what POOR people do, who lack the motivation to be anything else. Do you think Donald Trump would have ever come back from bankruptcy to become one of the richest people in America, had he adopted the mindset that his bankruptcy was an unbearable hardship which was no fault of his own? What if he had just thrown up his hands and said, I give up... I tried and failed, and it wasn't my fault, so I have to sit here with my hand out? My guess is, he would have never regained his wealth. But that's where rich people differ from poor people.

Someone once asked Trump, was it more difficult to become a millionaire the second time? He said; "Actually, it was harder the first time, because the second time, I KNEW I could do it!"

Oh, please, Dix. Save the junior school "you can be anything you want to be" pep talk.

Yep, that's what I am saying exactly. Some people are perfectly content to live in poverty and on welfare, dependent on society and filled with the mindset that nothing is their fault, they aren't to blame for their lot in life, and there is nothing they can do but accept things as they are.

And those are the people who require a full medical and counselling because obviously there's something wrong. Depression? Suffering grief due to a loss?

If you had a 16 year old son or daughter who came home from school and just stayed in their room and never participated in activities what would you do? Assume it's normal or find out what the problem was? If they told you there wasn't any problem and they just didn't feel like doing anything and this want on for months wouldn't you take them to a doctor?

Actually, yes I do, to be honest. If you consider 'disability' to be 'welfare' which I do. I know several people who once had decent paying jobs, but now collect a monthly disability check, because they supposedly have "an immune system disorder" or "back problems" or any number of other hyped up reasons people can now claim a disability. I know someone right now, who has been unemployed for almost two years, and draws an unemployment check. I saw them last weekend getting ready to go to the lake. Would they be headed off to the lake for a weekend of leisure if there wasn't a UE check in the mailbox? Could they maybe have found some kind of job somewhere, had there not been a steady flow of money the past two years? I'm betting, whenever this guy's UE finally runs out (we keep extending it for him), he will be motivated to go out there and find some kind of job to earn an income.

So what difference of income are we talking about? What does UI pay? 50%? If the guy was making, say, $25,000/yr he would collect $12,500. Is that right? If so, are you saying a healthy individual would accept that IF they could work? And with medical knowledge today they have a pretty good idea who is trying to scam the system.

Again, there are some people motivated to not live in that condition anymore. They make up their minds that nothing is going to stop them, they are going to be successful, and adversity is just an obstacle they must overcome on their own. Do you think Oprah Winfrey has ever once credited 'welfare' for her success? She certainly came from a family dependent on welfare. It wasn't 'welfare' that 'helped' Oprah, it was Oprah who helped Oprah, by having the mindset to not remain poor. By not wallowing in self-pity or finding blame in others for her lot in life.

Then something is wrong with the person who does accept that lifestyle. Either they are suffering from depression or they require counselling due to feelings of inferiority or ......The point is something is wrong because healthy, happy people are motivated. Poor people suffer so anyone who chooses poverty (suffering) when it's been shown they can improve their situation (you said he had a job before) shows there's something wrong. This isn't rocket science.

I'm not responding to the rest of your post because this isn't a discussion about health care.

Unfortunately, it usually is about health care. Or lack thereof to be precise. Someone who quits a job and is content to live on 1/2 their salary, that being UI, the first thing required is a complete medical. Rule out any illnesses and/or deficiencies followed by counselling. Let's leave the "they're a lazy bum" diagnosis to the end, after other probable causes are ruled out.

 

[apple0154]

MORONIC .. and expected.

That was the first thought that want through my mind. What the &^%$ is he talking about???

People with a job lining up at a job fair because it's a free activity!

 

[blackascoal]

That was the first thought that want through my mind. What the &^%$ is he talking about???

People with a job lining up at a job fair because it's a free activity!

He is stupid beyond belief.

 

[Bonestorm]

I call the poor recovery a result of the Obama stimulus plan.

While you don't want to admit it, and I can understand why, the recession he inherited that hit at the beginning of Bush's first term and was deepened by 9/11 was better handled and never went as deep as it could have due to his policy. Another reality is that, while he didn't do enough and we agree on that, Bush predicted the next recession and tried to get Congress to act to forestall it, unfortunately FM & FM had bought nearly every politician in Congress most of whom would not even admit that there might be a problem.

That's a lot of words that don't add up to an answer to the question posed.

 

[Damocles]

That's a lot of words that don't add up to an answer to the question posed.

It answers it and explains at a deeper level. While you want to pretend that only some simple thought pattern that you attempt to lead others to is as far as one can think, it just isn't true.

The comparisons are valid, which is sad because the deeper the recession the greater the jobs numbers in a healthy recovery, that the numbers are comparable with Bush seriously leads one with the ability to think to a negative conclusion about the policy of this President. That you try to use it as an excuse instead of paying attention to historical data only underlines the simplistic view you want others to entertain.

I don't believe that you are that simplistic, I think you believe that you can lead simple people in that direction. I just am surprised that you somehow believe that I am that simplistic or will not be able to explain a different position.

The reality is, in the past good policy that created a healthy and sustainable recovery would have built more jobs than Bush's recovery exactly for the reason you gave in an attempt to produce a non-viable excuse, that it spent far more than even Bush's tax cuts used to create his recovery is just another sign of its almost complete failure. If Obama's policy was capable of creating a healthy and sustainable recovery Bush's never could compare in the job creation category. Crap, a truly healthy recovery would have created more jobs simply taking us back to even.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Exactly, so who would I trust more; you or the US government? Why do foreign countries keep buying US government bonds? That's why the best system for the people is government and not an Enron type system. The Enron folks may go to jail but that does nothing to help the people who lost money. Here's the choice; put the crook in jail and receive no money or don't put the crook in jail and receive your money? I know which one I'd choose.

Again, the SS trust fund is empty! The money is gone! It has been spent by politicians who pilfered the funds.
I choose the system where someone goes to jail for stealing my money.

Yes, that is my solution. For some people SS is all they have. Surely being pro-life you wouldn't want those people to die, would you?

Well then the "solution" with Enron should have been, Enron gets to cut salaries and take more out of employee pay to repay the money stolen from investors! That's the plan you are suggesting for SS... Our money has been stolen and spent, now we are to pay an increased tax to cover the missing funds.

Oh, please, Dix. Save the junior school "you can be anything you want to be" pep talk.

Oh please, Apple... try to read something that isn't from HuffPo for once, and allow it to soak into your brain! You CAN be anything you want to be! That isn't a pep talk, that is reality in America. That's why millions will come here each year... it's why people will risk their life to get here on makeshift rafts, etc. This is the land of opportunity... or it was, until Socialists killed it. I gave you a true story about Trump... Here's a man who had it all, lost everything, and regained his fortune again.

And those are the people who require a full medical and counselling because obviously there's something wrong. Depression? Suffering grief due to a loss?

...Registered Democrats?

If you had a 16 year old son or daughter who came home from school and just stayed in their room and never participated in activities what would you do? Assume it's normal or find out what the problem was? If they told you there wasn't any problem and they just didn't feel like doing anything and this want on for months wouldn't you take them to a doctor?

My kids had a list of chores to do when they finished their homework. This generally took them to dinner, where they sat at the table with the family and had a meal together, and afterwards, we usually watched some TV or played board games. My kids weren't allowed to just hang out all day in their rooms. If the weather was nice, I ran them out of the house. We never forced them to play sports/activities, they were always eager to do those things. I still don't get your point here... what does this have to do with poor people being less motivated to become wealthy?

So what difference of income are we talking about? What does UI pay? 50%? If the guy was making, say, $25,000/yr he would collect $12,500. Is that right? If so, are you saying a healthy individual would accept that IF they could work? And with medical knowledge today they have a pretty good idea who is trying to scam the system.

I am not "saying" anything, just stating a fact. I know a guy who has been unemployed, drawing UI for nearly 2 years, and last weekend, he was in the store buying stuff for a day at the lake. Now it's not any of my business, maybe his wife earns income? But I'll bet you, when his UI runs out, he'll go back to work again.

Then something is wrong with the person who does accept that lifestyle. Either they are suffering from depression or they require counselling due to feelings of inferiority or ......The point is something is wrong because healthy, happy people are motivated. Poor people suffer so anyone who chooses poverty (suffering) when it's been shown they can improve their situation (you said he had a job before) shows there's something wrong. This isn't rocket science.

Not everyone is motivated to be wealthy, Apple. Some people are content with just enough to get by. Others will struggle to get by and always be whining that it's not their fault, they can't help themselves, they need assistance, it's not fair. And then, there are those who will do whatever they need to do in order to be a success. They don't have "fail" in their vocabulary. This is because every human being is different, Apple. We don't all have the same motivations.

Unfortunately, it usually is about health care.

No, this thread isn't about health care, and I refuse to discuss it with you in this thread.

 

[USFREEDOM911]

He is stupid beyond belief.

Unfortunetly, you have shown your own stupidity; because you failed to show where I was in error and instead just shoved your fingers in your ears and started repeating "lalala".

 

[USFREEDOM911]

That was the first thought that want through my mind. What the &^%$ is he talking about???

People with a job lining up at a job fair because it's a free activity!

Where did I say that the reason they were at the job fair; because it was free?

If you had bothered to retain the post that BAC made, you would have remembered that she had her presentation divided into TWO sections.
The first one was about the Job Fairs
and
The second one was about Free medical.

I know you like to spin situations into something they aren't; but on this one, you ended up shoving your head up your ass and then sitting down.

 

[Rune]

Where did I say that the reason they were at the job fair; because it was free?

If you had bothered to retain the post that BAC made, you would have remembered that she had her presentation divided into TWO sections.
The first one was about the Job Fairs
and
The second one was about Free medical.

I know you like to spin situations into something they aren't; but on this one, you ended up shoving your head up your ass and then sitting down.

Come on Free, people at job fairs even though they already have jobs? Maybe not stupid but certainly disingenuous.

 

[PostmodernProphet]

what do you call an economy that has been in recession for 13 months and just suffered the worst quarter since the 1950s?

Obama's legacy........

 

[Rune]

It answers it and explains at a deeper level. While you want to pretend that only some simple thought pattern that you attempt to lead others to is as far as one can think, it just isn't true.

The comparisons are valid, which is sad because the deeper the recession the greater the jobs numbers in a healthy recovery, that the numbers are comparable with Bush seriously leads one with the ability to think to a negative conclusion about the policy of this President. That you try to use it as an excuse instead of paying attention to historical data only underlines the simplistic view you want others to entertain.

I don't believe that you are that simplistic, I think you believe that you can lead simple people in that direction. I just am surprised that you somehow believe that I am that simplistic or will not be able to explain a different position.

The reality is, in the past good policy that created a healthy and sustainable recovery would have built more jobs than Bush's recovery exactly for the reason you gave in an attempt to produce a non-viable excuse, that it spent far more than even Bush's tax cuts used to create his recovery is just another sign of its almost complete failure. If Obama's policy was capable of creating a healthy and sustainable recovery Bush's never could compare in the job creation category. Crap, a truly healthy recovery would have created more jobs simply taking us back to even.

To put your "argument" in perspective, imagine it was the year 1934 and you were complaining about the slow "recovery",
because that is what you are doing.

 

[apple0154]

Again, the SS trust fund is empty! The money is gone! It has been spent by politicians who pilfered the funds.
I choose the system where someone goes to jail for stealing my money.

When SS started the first people who received a pension never contributed to the plan or contributed very little before they collected benefits. The succeeding generation put the money in for the first collectors. It all comes down to the fact there is enough money/resources to look after the elderly even if there isn’t a dime saved. The combined total of all the US citizens can support the elderly. That’s the bottom line.

As for the disingenuous argument there are fewer workers for each retired person compared to years ago we have to acknowledge many jobs have been automated. We don’t require as many workers to produce the same amount and that trend will continue indefinitely as technology advances. So, we have a society that is able to produce products and services with fewer and fewer workers. Instead of holding to the old paradigm that everyone has to work surely it’s obvious that’s not the case. Society can look after the elderly regardless of what money is in the SS fund. There is sufficient for everyone.

The problem is how to deal with the new reality. Do we want people working just to say they’re working or do we want people to do things that contribute to the benefit of society? Do we want a society where hospital volunteers are not paid but people who produce things like “Pet Rocks” are considered heroes/role models?

Well then the "solution" with Enron should have been, Enron gets to cut salaries and take more out of employee pay to repay the money stolen from investors! That's the plan you are suggesting for SS... Our money has been stolen and spent, now we are to pay an increased tax to cover the missing funds.

Enron employees never voted for management. They had no say in the workings of the company.

Oh please, Apple... try to read something that isn't from HuffPo for once, and allow it to soak into your brain! You CAN be anything you want to be! That isn't a pep talk, that is reality in America. That's why millions will come here each year... it's why people will risk their life to get here on makeshift rafts, etc. This is the land of opportunity... or it was, until Socialists killed it. I gave you a true story about Trump... Here's a man who had it all, lost everything, and regained his fortune again.

Good for him but as Obama said there are a lot of hard working, intelligent people who do not “make it”. The acquisition of money rests a large part on good luck or good fortune or God’s grace or whatever one wants to call it. You know my story. While not wealthy I was able to retire early. I did nothing or close to nothing in order to obtain my money. I had nothing to do with developers moving into an area dramatically increasing housing values. One deal I got on a rental property happened by bumping into my Real Estate agent at the video rental store and her telling me about a place for sale and the motivated seller. I picked up the place for 2/3 of the then current market value a couple of years before the developers moved in. Tell me, what hard work did I do besides returning a rented video? I’m talking about every $100,000 turning into $300,000 over a 5 year period, however one defines that increase or percentage.

Take two corner stores a block apart. The one nearest the bus stop where two or more buses meet/cross will see a much larger increase in sales. Did the owner have anything to do with the city transportation routes?

My kids had a list of chores to do when they finished their homework. This generally took them to dinner, where they sat at the table with the family and had a meal together, and afterwards, we usually watched some TV or played board games. My kids weren't allowed to just hang out all day in their rooms. If the weather was nice, I ran them out of the house. We never forced them to play sports/activities, they were always eager to do those things. I still don't get your point here... what does this have to do with poor people being less motivated to become wealthy?

Not necessarily to become wealthy but anyone who chooses to live in poverty has a problem, other than those who do so for religious reasons. Happy, healthy human beings want a decent life for themselves and their family. My point was you motivated your kids to do things and they learned from that. As you said, “My kids weren't allowed to just hang out all day in their rooms.” You prompted them to go out and that changed their mood. Who prompts the 22 year old to go out? He/she has no money. Their clothes look like hell. They’re on welfare and the baby’s crying. They need help. Counseling. Rather than turning to drugs to dull the hell in which they live. They certainly need something other than being belittled by welfare telling them they’re lazy and enduring spot checks on their living conditions being treated like a convict.

I was a slumlord. I dealt with those folks on a regular basis and it was nothing short of a crime how society treated them. And, yes, I did occasionally help them out with “gifts”.

Not everyone is motivated to be wealthy, Apple. Some people are content with just enough to get by. Others will struggle to get by and always be whining that it's not their fault, they can't help themselves, they need assistance, it's not fair. And then, there are those who will do whatever they need to do in order to be a success. They don't have "fail" in their vocabulary. This is because every human being is different, Apple. We don't all have the same motivations.

I agree. I am not motivated to be wealthy, either. However, I am not suffering. I can afford to look after myself well and have extra to enjoy life. Again, we’re not talking about being wealthy. We’re talking about suffering. When people don’t have enough food. Or a decent place to live. There is something wrong when people accept that lifestyle, when they believe they can’t change it. Surely you can recognize that.

No, this thread isn't about health care, and I refuse to discuss it with you in this thread.

But health care plays a vital role. People, like the above, more often than not have a medical problem. Depression. Being tired. Could all be the result of an illness or deficiency. If the government is going to send them hundreds of dollars a month for months on end doesn’t logic dictate a simple blood work-up for a couple of hundred dollars, at most, would be a wise investment? Or maybe the government doesn’t want to know if there’s a medical problem. Do you think that could be the reason?

 

[apple0154]

Where did I say that the reason they were at the job fair; because it was free?

Right here. Post 581.

Your presentation of the "thousands" that are lining up for jobs, doesn't mean that everyone that lined up aren't already workikng.
Many job fairs have people attend that are already working; but are looking for something else, for any number of reasons.

AND

Thousands lining up for something that's FREE doesn't mean that they NEED it and there might be some of those people just wanting something for FREE.

If you had bothered to retain the post that BAC made, you would have remembered that she had her presentation divided into TWO sections.
The first one was about the Job Fairs
and
The second one was about Free medical.

I know you like to spin situations into something they aren't; but on this one, you ended up shoving your head up your ass and then sitting down.

Free medical? But they have a job. Isn't medical included? Perhaps we should question just what type of "job" they supposedly had but that would take some thinking on your part.

It's obvious who's head is stuck where it is.

 

[Bonestorm]

It answers it and explains at a deeper level. While you want to pretend that only some simple thought pattern that you attempt to lead others to is as far as one can think, it just isn't true.

The comparisons are valid, which is sad because the deeper the recession the greater the jobs numbers in a healthy recovery, that the numbers are comparable with Bush seriously leads one with the ability to think to a negative conclusion about the policy of this President. That you try to use it as an excuse instead of paying attention to historical data only underlines the simplistic view you want others to entertain.

I don't believe that you are that simplistic, I think you believe that you can lead simple people in that direction. I just am surprised that you somehow believe that I am that simplistic or will not be able to explain a different position.

The reality is, in the past good policy that created a healthy and sustainable recovery would have built more jobs than Bush's recovery exactly for the reason you gave in an attempt to produce a non-viable excuse, that it spent far more than even Bush's tax cuts used to create his recovery is just another sign of its almost complete failure. If Obama's policy was capable of creating a healthy and sustainable recovery Bush's never could compare in the job creation category. Crap, a truly healthy recovery would have created more jobs simply taking us back to even.

I'll rephrase the question because you are clearly having trouble: if an economy that is still growing is "terrible" what do you call an economy in the midst of the worst depression since the 1940s that just suffered the steepest quarterly decline since the 1950s?