GOP Platform: Women Not Human

christiefan915 said:
If a man doesn't want to be a father, it's simple. Use protection every time, all the time, and don't take the woman's word for it that she's on the pill.
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sorry, but that's fucked up. Intentional deception on the part of the women is probably one of the worst things one could do to another human being. She would literally be destroying someone elses life.

If either partner thinks "just this once it won't matter" and the woman becomes pregnant, the man is absolutely responsible for decades of monetary support... as is the woman. There's no way I'll let the man off the hook just because he can't carry the fetus.
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if a man took all proper and precautions and was intentionally deceived into impregnating someone, that's not his fault. The woman facilitated the pregnancy solely on her own.
 
Superfreak said:
Obviously this is where the real discussion should be. When should basic human rights apply. I can at least respect arguments like the above, despite my disagreement with them.

I just can't stand the idiots that try to pretend it is not a unique human life.
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you need to accept that most people are proles, and they can't actually read ones argument without already jumping to conclusions. The idiots that have denied it's human life have hurt their cause because they come off as uneducated mouthbreathers.
 
King of Owls said:
you need to accept that most people are proles, and they can't actually read ones argument without already jumping to conclusions. The idiots that have denied it's human life have hurt their cause because they come off as uneducated mouthbreathers.
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Agreed. I do tend to think the idiots can be reasoned with. Yet most are too ignorant to realize just how ridiculous their 'arguments' are.
 
Superfreak said:
So because they are living in the projects they should not be held accountable for their actions? Is that your argument?
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It's funny, I would never have had you down as a hellfire and brimstone character, I am trying to tell you that life isn't always like yours. Do you think it is a coiincidence that the poor have the most children and abortions?
 
King of Owls said:
I think a good line is around the line where a brain is formed. That's would be around the start of sentience and true personhood. Maybe it still takes a while for the brain to kick into high gear and be relevant, but that seems to be a good safe point.
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I have already advanced that argument, sentience starts at 26 weeks and viability around 22 weeks. To my mind, if the clinical definition of death is the absence of brainwaves then the opposite also holds true as well.

26 weeks or 6 months: The foetus is 14" long and almost two pounds. The lungs' bronchioles develop. Interlinking of the brain's neurons begins. The higher functions of the foetal brain turn on for the first time. Some rudimentary brain waves can be detected. The foetus will be able to feel pain for the first time. It has become conscious of its surroundings. The fetus has become a sentient human life for the first time.
 
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Aoxomoxoa said:
It's funny, I would never have had you down as a hellfire and brimstone character, I am trying to tell you that life isn't always like yours. Do you think it is a coiincidence that the poor have the most children and abortions?
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What is funny is your characterization. Where have I stated that everyone is the same or just like me? Also, my position has nothing to do with religion. At all. I am agnostic and have been for decades.

I like how you classify the 'poor' as being a bunch of irresponsible drunks and crack addicts. You think those same people could afford a condom and the pill if they can afford the alcohol and drugs? Yeah, they could. As I stated, if you don't want to become pregnant their are ways to avoid it regardless of how 'poor' someone is.
 
King of Owls said:
sorry, but that's fucked up. Intentional deception on the part of the women is probably one of the worst things one could do to another human being. She would literally be destroying someone elses life.
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What's fucked up about taking care of yourself? That's all I think the man should do. And I also think that few pregnancies result from a woman intentionally deceiving a man. Not to say it doesn't happen, but the woman pays a higher price when it does. And speaking of deception, what about those men who use the line "baby, I love you and I'm here for you" just to get laid? Or as Mott put it in another thread, "beer goggles". Deception's a two-way street when sex is involved.

if a man took all proper and precautions and was intentionally deceived into impregnating someone, that's not his fault. The woman facilitated the pregnancy solely on her own.
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If he took all the proper precautions how could he be deceived? I don't understand, unless you're saying a woman would deliberately and secretly stick a pin into the condom or something. In my experience as a woman :), females generally don't try to trick a man into getting them pregnant. Well, maybe rock star or sports star groupies, but not the average woman. They're way more concerned with not conceiving before they're ready. I think women tricking men is the exception rather than the rule.
 
Aoxomoxoa said:
I have already advanced that argument, sentience starts at 26 weeks and viability around 22 weeks. To my mind, if the clinical definition of death is the absence of brainwaves then the opposite also holds true as well.

26 weeks or 6 months: The foetus is 14" long and almost two pounds. The lungs' bronchioles develop. Interlinking of the brain's neurons begins. The higher functions of the foetal brain turn on for the first time. Some rudimentary brain waves can be detected. The foetus will be able to feel pain for the first time. It has become conscious of its surroundings. The fetus has become a sentient human life for the first time.
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except you're wrong about the development of the brain....
 
j-mac said:
Hell, there are some adults that shouldn't be considered 'sentient'...Should we be allowe to kill them also, because it may be more convenient for us?
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Do I REALLY have to explain why that would be wrong?

You keep telling me I'm a smart guy and I think you might be also, but you gotta stop posting world Class hyperbole if you want to be taken seriously.
 
christiefan915 said:
What's fucked up about taking care of yourself? That's all I think the man should do.
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A man would be taking care of himself. He's not responsible for being intentionally deceived. You are literally making him responsible for something he should be considered a victim of.

And I also think that few pregnancies result from a woman intentionally deceiving a man.
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Irrelevant. You brought it up, so we are now addressing those cases, rare as they might be. (and truthfully, I think the "OOOPS, i forgot birth control LOL" excuse probably comes up a lot more often that you may want to give credit for.

Not to say it doesn't happen, but the woman pays a higher price when it does.
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If it's through her own purposeful deception, then tough shit. It's on her.

It's like saying a bank robber would have to pay a higher price for robbing a bank assuming he's caught, so it's actually fair"

......


And speaking of deception, what about those men who use the line "baby, I love you and I'm here for you" just to get laid? Or as Mott put it in another thread, "beer goggles". Deception's a two-way street when sex is involved.
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So are we agreeing both are wrong, or only one of the situations is wrong? Also your example doesn't necessarily imply pregnancy and all the problems that deviate from it.


If he took all the proper precautions how could he be deceived?
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"If he didn't leave his keys in the car than how could I have stolen it? We are equally responsible."


I don't understand, unless you're saying a woman would deliberately and secretly stick a pin into the condom or something.
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That, or pretending to be on birth control when you are not, are both completely immoral.

In my experience as a woman :), females generally don't try to trick a man into getting them pregnant.
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Thank god for that. It probably is comparatively rare. But it's also probably more prevalent than you would give credit to.

I think women tricking men is the exception rather than the rule.
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That may be so but again, when addressing that issue specifically we should focus on the context of the situation itself and not how unlikely it might be to come up
 
Superfreak said:
Women have the right to control whether they use birth control. Women have the right to choose whether to have sex or not. Women have the right to pay for medical care.

Genetics proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that at conception the 'fertilized egg' (as you on the left like to call it) is indeed a unique human life. Why do you continue to ignore this? Why do you deny science? Do you also believe the earth is flat? that the Sun revolves around the Earth? Let me guess, you think gravity doesn't exist that something is actually pushing us down rather than pulling us?
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Fine...you want every "fertilized egg" to be allowed life?

Then we'll just take every egg, as soon as it's been fertilized, and remove it from the woman to make sure it's given a chance to grow.

Every one that survives gets to live and those that don't...oh well.

Really, it's no more ludicrous a suggestion than any of the nonsense you've been spouting here for days now.
 
Aoxomoxoa said:
Listen sunshine, anyone you say is motivated by religion and not science as far as I'm concerned. I will reiterate for those in the cheap seats, if death is the absence of brainwave activity then life is the presence of same.
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Death is the cessation of brainwave activity and at that time there is no hope for restoration of the activity. That is not what happens at conception. While brain activity is not there (or at least not measurable with today's technology), it is expected to develop.
 
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