Hillary Clinton's Poll Numbers Take A Huge Nose Dive, And Benghazi Is To Blame

Sierra said:
Israel; has there ever been a bigger foreign policy clusterfuck since the beginning of time? I think not. Look, I don't particularly hate anybody, except maybe macho men, but giving the British Protectorate of Palestine to the Zionists based on some 3000 year old biblical nonsense was a bad move. South America would have been a better choice, as was suggested I think at one time. Peoples get displaced. Ask the American Indian and then deal with it. But that is a topic for another thread.

All the Dems are too pro-Israeli in my view. It's not the 51st state as some would think. I have written to Diane Feinstein demanding to know how she can be sitting US Senator and have dual citizenship with another country. Pelosi too I think, or is it Boxer. Israel receives $3 billion a year in foreign aid from the US tax payer. And they have Universal health care so that their citizens don't go broke from catastrophic illness or injury. Go figure. (Damn...12 billion in Afghanistan...but let's cut Medicare..fools)

Foreign Aid FY 2011 in US $ millions:

Afghanistan 12,924.40
Israel 3,026.40
Iraq 2,147.60
Pakistan 1,700.10
Egypt 1,471.20
Haiti 1,263.40
Kenya 1,032.10
Jordan 850.8

(I just had a little cut and paste issue, I think I'm okay now)
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$15 billion a year in Afghanistan and Iraq. How much science education would that buy at home?
 
leaningright said:
No, it really doesn't. And the US should honor those agreements. But I can look back on it and gripe about it. Kind of like Roe vs. Wade. I don't agree with it but I ain't gonna go out and blow up any abortion clinics ... but I can sure look back on it and say it was misguided.
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Then we have to support our allies, even Israel.
 
DamnYankee said:
http://conservative.org/about-acu/principles
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Ok, I know this is totally off topic, but damn. That's some paranoia going wild there. The Government, the government, the goverment! Let me guess, you probably don't actually think that the military is part of the government do you? A right winger once told me "the government is the government and the military is the military". Anyway, what about THE CORPORATION taking over your life? You don't fear that? Because that is actually what is happening. American soldiers are dying for the transnational corporations. No one has died for our freedom since WWII.

But that's a pretty funny website. I'm going to share it.
 
DamnYankee said:
Since they use it to buy weapons to harass Israel, it is also not supportive to Israel.

For the record, I'm for limited military support of Israel, since that State was set up by us and our allies as part of the WW2 treatise.
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Israel is not my problem. The Palestinians are as oppressed by the Israeli government as Jews were by the Nazi government. There is no nation on earth in violation of more UN Resolutions than Israel.

I'm all for the security of the Israeli people, and I support a Jewish state .. but not at the expense and horror of the Palestinian people.
 
Sierra said:
Ok, I know this is totally off topic, but damn. That's some paranoia going wild there. The Government, the government, the goverment! Let me guess, you probably don't actually think that the military is part of the government do you? A right winger once told me "the government is the government and the military is the military". Anyway, what about THE CORPORATION taking over your life? You don't fear that? Because that is actually what is happening. American soldiers are dying for the transnational corporations. No one has died for our freedom since WWII.

But that's a pretty funny website. I'm going to share it.
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APPLAUSE
 
Sierra said:
Ok, I know this is totally off topic, but damn. That's some paranoia going wild there. The Government, the government, the goverment! Let me guess, you probably don't actually think that the military is part of the government do you? A right winger once told me "the government is the government and the military is the military". Anyway, what about THE CORPORATION taking over your life? You don't fear that? Because that is actually what is happening. American soldiers are dying for the transnational corporations. No one has died for our freedom since WWII.

But that's a pretty funny website. I'm going to share it.
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Corporations in and of themselves have ZERO impact on my life. In a free market (which most individuals abhor) a corporation cannot make me do anything. I choose to buy their products or I choose not to.

However, a corporation can turn to government and have them carve out special favors in an effort to pick winners and losers. You see it is much easier to grease the palm of a connected politician and create barriers to entry for your competition than it is to compete in the big bad free market. In this equation however you need someone in the government to go along.

People often times blame money as if that is the problem. Money isn't the problem. An immoral people is the problem. People who seek only to aggrandize themselves and consolidate their power for personal aims is the problem. That is why the founders knew that our system of government would only survive in the hands of a moral people.

Moral people cannot be bribed. Moral people do the right thing even in the face of unpopularity. A moral person could not be bought off by a corporation. That corporations try to buy off politicians to gain competitive advantage is not surprising. That the politicians let them is the problem. Then the politicians turn around and blame "money" as if they have ZERO control over their actions.

But, more than the politicians, I blame the people. They get the government they vote for. They have no business complaining because they keep voting in the status quo. Blaming corporations however is childish and doesn't really get to the root of the problem.
 
Sierra said:
Ok, I know this is totally off topic, but damn. That's some paranoia going wild there. The Government, the government, the goverment! Let me guess, you probably don't actually think that the military is part of the government do you? A right winger once told me "the government is the government and the military is the military". Anyway, what about THE CORPORATION taking over your life? You don't fear that? Because that is actually what is happening. American soldiers are dying for the transnational corporations. No one has died for our freedom since WWII.

But that's a pretty funny website. I'm going to share it.
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OK...

So what specific policy do you find disagreeable? Limited government? Because that's what the Founders fought for, and eventually codified into law.
 
blackascoal said:
Israel is not my problem. The Palestinians are as oppressed by the Israeli government as Jews were by the Nazi government. There is no nation on earth in violation of more UN Resolutions than Israel.

I'm all for the security of the Israeli people, and I support a Jewish state .. but not at the expense and horror of the Palestinian people.
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I know that you are partial to overblown rhetoric but to equate the Nazis with the Israelis is absurd.
 
I Love America said:
Corporations in and of themselves have ZERO impact on my life. In a free market (which most individuals abhor) a corporation cannot make me do anything. I choose to buy their products or I choose not to.
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Really? pollution from factories impact your life. When they get the govt to cut back on food inspectors and you get sick from eating their food - that impacts your life, and you can't know it's polluted when you buy it. Enron's bankruptcy affected you, whether or not you ever bought anything from them. The companies that messed around with the real estate market impacted you. The digital camera industry caused the film industry to implode; you can't get Polaroid film these days. That's the free market for you.

There are lots of other ways corporations affect you, whether or not you buy from them.
 
Polaroid film? I get some of what you said, but Polaroid film? I can't get a wringer washer anymore either.
 
leaningright said:
Polaroid film? I get some of what you said, but Polaroid film? I can't get a wringer washer anymore either.
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there actually are times I wish I had a Polaroid camera. When I'm staffing a booth at an event, and I have a cardboard cutout of someone famous; would be great if I could have people stand by the cut out, take the pic with a Polaroid, and hand it to them while charging them a buck. But without a Polaroid camera, you need a printer of some kind and then you have to hook the camera to it and... well, we end up using their cameraphone, taking the pic, and not charging them.l

But I agree most people don't miss them. And the free market is what killed them. And there's no compelling govt interest to keep them in business. But once a year, I miss them.
 
tekkychick said:
there actually are times I wish I had a Polaroid camera. When I'm staffing a booth at an event, and I have a cardboard cutout of someone famous; would be great if I could have people stand by the cut out, take the pic with a Polaroid, and hand it to them while charging them a buck. But without a Polaroid camera, you need a printer of some kind and then you have to hook the camera to it and... well, we end up using their cameraphone, taking the pic, and not charging them.l

But I agree most people don't miss them. And the free market is what killed them. And there's no compelling govt interest to keep them in business. But once a year, I miss them.
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My boy's great-granny gave him an old Polaroid last year. I got some film for it here: https://shop.the-impossible-project.com/shop/film. It worked fine. Maybe you could try to getfind some there for your camera as well.
 
blackascoal said:
I'm confused. Why would I have a problem with that?
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Because he completely lacks debate skills, and I thought we were having a serious debate.

Don't you realize that "Sierra's" arguments fail due to what are probably the two most common logical fallacies, "straw man" and "appeal to ridicule"?
 
tekkychick said:
there actually are times I wish I had a Polaroid camera. When I'm staffing a booth at an event, and I have a cardboard cutout of someone famous; would be great if I could have people stand by the cut out, take the pic with a Polaroid, and hand it to them while charging them a buck. But without a Polaroid camera, you need a printer of some kind and then you have to hook the camera to it and... well, we end up using their cameraphone, taking the pic, and not charging them.l

But I agree most people don't miss them. And the free market is what killed them. And there's no compelling govt interest to keep them in business. But once a year, I miss them.
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You can always set up a website where they can download the picture for a buck, or better yet ten bucks, but then again everyone has a cell phone camera so pictures are considered free these days...
 
Aoxomoxoa said:
I know that you are partial to overblown rhetoric but to equate the Nazis with the Israelis is absurd.
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Human life may be low on your list of priorities brother .. but it isn't on mine.

Because I care about human life and oppressed people, there are certain images that last forever. This is one of them ..

tumblr_m7t8hffMmE1ruosnao1_500.jpg


here's another ..

brave_idf_soldier.jpg


Got time for one more?

hiding-child.jpg


So many horrors aganist CHILDREN to post ..

pic.php


Bullets in the brain, shrapnel in the spine: the terrible injuries suffered by children of Gaza
Doctors at a hospital near Gaza are almost overwhelmed by the number of Palestinian children needing treatment for bullet wounds to their heads.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...le-injuries-suffered-by-children-of-Gaza.html

They are TARGETING children.

Breaking the Silence: IDF's treatment of Palestinian children

The following is a compendium of testimonies given by over thirty IDF soldiers who served in the West Bank and in and around the Gaza Strip in the years 2005-2011. Like previous publications by Breaking the Silence, it portrays daily events in the Occupied Territories. The testimonies in this anthology illuminate the realities of everyday life for Palestinian children and youth who live under Israeli occupation. Although the events described here took place after the peak of the Second Intifada, at a time perceived as calm and uneventful from a “security” standpoint, the reality that emerges from the testimonies shows that harsh treatment of Palestinian children continues unabated, and despite the overall security situation.
http://972mag.com/breaking-the-silence-idfs-treatment-of-palestinian-children/54921/

Feel free to ignore that and countless other atrocities by the Israeli government .. but I won't.

Feel free to run from the Nazi comparisons .. but I won't.
 
DamnYankee said:
Because he completely lacks debate skills, and I thought we were having a serious debate.

Don't you realize that "Sierra's" arguments fail due to what are probably the two most common logical fallacies, "straw man" and "appeal to ridicule"?
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Respectfully, I find both arguments utterly ridiculous.

These are conversations .. all civil discussion should be welcomed.

I agree with Sierra's arguments .. and I welcome you to post what you think equates to "straw man" and "appeal to ridicule" .. and I'll demonstrate why I agree with those arguments and why I think you're wrong.

You may not like Topspin or his 'debate skills' .. but I do.

These are conversations between adults brother. I'm much more concerned about the content of the post than I am about who posted it.
 
blackascoal said:
Respectfully, I find both arguments utterly ridiculous.

These are conversations .. all civil discussion should be welcomed.

I agree with Sierra's arguments .. and I welcome you to post what you think equates to "straw man" and "appeal to ridicule" .. and I'll demonstrate why I agree with those arguments and why I think you're wrong.

You may not like Topspin or his 'debate skills' .. but I do.

These are conversations between adults brother. I'm much more concerned about the content of the post than I am about who posted it.
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Sierra's straw man was claiming that "right wingers" don't think that the military is part of the government. That's an easy position to defeat- debating against the actual, stated principles on the linked site isn't.

Then he added "appeal to ridicule" for good measure, claiming that the site was "funny". You then committed the same fallacy. Hence my disappointment.

Topspin? He's never shown the ability to debate, so I'm not sure how anyone could "like" said skills.
 
blackascoal said:
Human life may be low on your list of priorities brother .. but it isn't on mine.

Because I care about human life and oppressed people, there are certain images that last forever. This is one of them ..



here's another ..




So many horrors aganist CHILDREN to post ..



Bullets in the brain, shrapnel in the spine: the terrible injuries suffered by children of Gaza
Doctors at a hospital near Gaza are almost overwhelmed by the number of Palestinian children needing treatment for bullet wounds to their heads.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...le-injuries-suffered-by-children-of-Gaza.html

They are TARGETING children.

Breaking the Silence: IDF's treatment of Palestinian children

The following is a compendium of testimonies given by over thirty IDF soldiers who served in the West Bank and in and around the Gaza Strip in the years 2005-2011. Like previous publications by Breaking the Silence, it portrays daily events in the Occupied Territories. The testimonies in this anthology illuminate the realities of everyday life for Palestinian children and youth who live under Israeli occupation. Although the events described here took place after the peak of the Second Intifada, at a time perceived as calm and uneventful from a “security” standpoint, the reality that emerges from the testimonies shows that harsh treatment of Palestinian children continues unabated, and despite the overall security situation.
http://972mag.com/breaking-the-silence-idfs-treatment-of-palestinian-children/54921/

Feel free to ignore that and countless other atrocities by the Israeli government .. but I won't.

Feel free to run from the Nazi comparisons .. but I won't.
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Here is a video of those nice chaps from Hamas, just to show the other side of things. When Israelis see what Hamas do to Fatah supporters it doesn't make them very predisposed to make deals with them.

 
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