gop saint regan and poison gas

Who is we ?,,,,certainly enough Democrats voted for the War Resolution to get it passed....didn't you tell them he no longer had WMDS....the infamous quotes prove
that a few of the more prominent Dems didn't get the word. They KNEW otherwise.

You're changing the subject again, Ovum. The claim was that people on this board claimed Saddam never had WMD; I said no one on this board claimed that.

If you can't keep up, don't bother commenting.
 
Just factually refute the validity of this without resorting to gratuitous insults to cover up your inability to do so.

Really. How can it NOT be a lie to state as an absolute fact something you know is not an absolute fact?


If Bush said , "Speaking for the intelligence community, etc. etc. etc...", you might have a point ....ergo, he was speaking for himself....he was
stating what HE believed to be true.....simple English, simple logic, ....and its still more than you can grasp.
 
Note how quickly someone who's lying tries to change the subject once he realizes he's been cornered?

An analogy is not a change of subject....its a comparison based on similarity.

In this case, its not only similar, its identical....
 
If Bush said , "Speaking for the intelligence community, etc. etc. etc...", you might have a point ....ergo, he was speaking for himself....he was
stating what HE believed to be true.....simple English, simple logic, ....and its still more than you can grasp.

no. if he were saying what he believed to be true, he would have phrased it just like that. "I have no doubt." He did not. Words have meanings. You don't get to change them. THERE IS NO DOUBT the Red Sox will win the series is a lie, no matter who says it. And quite frankly, when the president speaks to the nation on matters of national security , he DOES speak for the entire executive branch. The buck stops there, unfortunately.
 
Who is we ?,,,,certainly enough Democrats voted for the War Resolution to get it passed....didn't you tell them he no longer had WMDS....the infamous quotes prove
that a few of the more prominent Dems didn't get the word. They KNEW otherwise.
a majority of democrats in congress voted against the resolution. no way around that.
 
You are wrong. English really is your second language, isn't it?

If Obama says that HE has no doubt. that is an opinion and cannot be a lie. If he says that THERE IS NO DOUBT, that is a statement of fact, and if there are, in fact, degrees of doubt, then that would be a lie.

Similarly, If I were to say that "I have no doubt that the Red Sox will win the world series this year"...that is my opinion, and cannot be a lie, per se. If I were to say, "THERE IS NO DOUBT that the Red Sox will win the world series this year", that would be a lie, because I know of Dodgers fans and Tampa fans who do indeed doubt that statement. I KNOW there is doubt yet I state that there IS NO DOUBT. That's a lie.

It really isn't all that difficult unless you are being willfully ignorant, which apparently, you are.


Whether its "he" or "there" is irrelevant.....the man speaks for himself unless he specifically says hes speaking for others.....

“This December will mark three years since United Nations inspectors last visited Iraq. There is no doubt that since that time, Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to refine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer- range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies.” — From a December 6, 2001 letter signed by Bob Graham, Joe Lieberman, Harold Ford, & Tom Lantos among others

I suppose you consider Bob Graham, Joe Lieberman, Harold Ford, & Tom Lantos among others, liars...is that the case....

“Whereas Iraq has consistently breached its cease-fire agreement between Iraq and the United States, entered into on March 3, 1991, by failing to dismantle its weapons of mass destruction program, and refusing to permit monitoring and verification by United Nations inspections; Whereas Iraq has developed weapons of mass destruction, including chemical and biological capabilities, and has made positive progress toward developing nuclear weapons capabilities” — From a joint resolution submitted by Tom Harkin and Arlen Specter on July 18, 2002

Does this statement make it clear that there is any doubt in what they claim ? Is there even a hint of doubt ?

".....He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda members......"...IS THIS A STATEMENT OF FACT ? does it imply doubt ?

“I am absolutely convinced that there are weapons…"....Is this a statement of fact ?...does it imply any doubt at all...?

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."....Is there any doubt expressed here ?


Why do you insist on embarrassing yourself over and over with the same stupid nonsense....?
 
Whether its "he" or "there" is irrelevant.....the man speaks for himself unless he specifically says hes speaking for others.....

“This December will mark three years since United Nations inspectors last visited Iraq. There is no doubt that since that time, Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to refine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer- range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies.” — From a December 6, 2001 letter signed by Bob Graham, Joe Lieberman, Harold Ford, & Tom Lantos among others

I suppose you consider Bob Graham, Joe Lieberman, Harold Ford, & Tom Lantos among others, liars...is that the case....

“Whereas Iraq has consistently breached its cease-fire agreement between Iraq and the United States, entered into on March 3, 1991, by failing to dismantle its weapons of mass destruction program, and refusing to permit monitoring and verification by United Nations inspections; Whereas Iraq has developed weapons of mass destruction, including chemical and biological capabilities, and has made positive progress toward developing nuclear weapons capabilities” — From a joint resolution submitted by Tom Harkin and Arlen Specter on July 18, 2002

Does this statement make it clear that there is any doubt in what they claim ? Is there even a hint of doubt ?

".....He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda members......"...IS THIS A STATEMENT OF FACT ? does it imply doubt ?

“I am absolutely convinced that there are weapons…"....Is this a statement of fact ?...does it imply any doubt at all...?

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."....Is there any doubt expressed here ?


Why do you insist on embarrassing yourself over and over with the same stupid nonsense....?

it is you who keep embarrassing yourself, not me. Bush lied when he said there was no doubt about Saddam's WMD stockpiles. The composition of the sentence and the meanings of the words in our language make that clear on its face.

I have never tried to defend any democrat's warmongering on Iraq... and the fact that some did does not mean that Bush did not. HE was our President. He misled us into war. period.
 
a majority of democrats in congress voted against the resolution. no way around that.


Its irrelevant ......no way around that either...

of course they decide ahead of time who will vote for or against any bill....it depends on their standing in their districts and how vulnerable they
might be to losing the next election.
 
You are wrong. English really is your second language, isn't it?

If Obama says that HE has no doubt. that is an opinion and cannot be a lie.

That is the biggest load of bullshit ever put forth anywhere.

When are you lemmings going to stop offering this moron cover? What's with the maniacal logical backflips? The desperation to justify supporting this Idiot-in-Chief can be smelled a mile away.

He drew a red-line, but it wasn't really a red-line. Well, not his red-line anyway. Someone else's.

His administration says there's no doubt, that their intelligence says there's no doubt.... but no. That's different than Bush. That's just an opinion. He wants to go to war on a hunch IOW.

Here's a quarter, go buy yourself a clue.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/western-powers-attack-syria-days-article-1.1438077

The drumbeats of war against Syria are growing even louder.

U.S. Vice President Joe Biden declared Tuesday there was “no doubt” that the Syrian government used chemical weapons against its own people, and Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel warned U.S. forces were “ready to go.”

We have “assets in place” and the Pentagon is prepared “to fulfill and comply with whatever option” President Barack Obama chooses to punish the Syrian government, Hagel added.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162...not-made-a-decision-on-syria-military-strike/

President Obama has not yet decided on U.S. action in Syria, where he says his administration has "concluded" President Bashar al Assad used chemical weapons in an attack against civilians last week near Damascus.

Employing his sharpest language to date as to who - Assad or the rebels fighting him - was responsible for the Aug. 21 strike in the civil war-torn country, Mr. Obama defined Vice President Joe Biden's assessment Tuesday that there is "no doubt" the Syrian government was at fault: "We have concluded," the president said, that Assad's regime "in fact carried these out. And if that's so, there needs to be international consequences.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/09/04/201163/obama-i-didnt-draw-the-red-line.html#.Uj-QVH-8HTo

Though Obama has chosen to act before a U.N. investigation is completed, he said U.S. intelligence shows there’s no doubt that chemical weapons were used by the regime.
 
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Again... if I say that I have no doubt the Sox win the series, that is a statement of my opinion. If I state that there is no doubt they will win, that is a statement of fact and I am lying because I know full well that there is, in fact, lots of doubt about that very thing.
 
Most incredible conversation ever...

You're basically admitting that Bush was a real president and that everything he said had meaning and gravitas.

And that Obama is a lightweight pretender, who shoots from the hip, and shouldn't be paid serious attention.
 
Its irrelevant ......no way around that either...

of course they decide ahead of time who will vote for or against any bill....it depends on their standing in their districts and how vulnerable they
might be to losing the next election.

irrelevant to you, maybe. not to me. I have never voted for any democrat who voted for the Iraq war resolution unless they publicly admitted they regretted the vote... and I never will.
 
it is you who keep embarrassing yourself, not me. Bush lied when he said there was no doubt about Saddam's WMD stockpiles. The composition of the sentence and the meanings of the words in our language make that clear on its face.

I have never tried to defend any democrat's warmongering on Iraq... and the fact that some did does not mean that Bush did not.

DID NOT WHAT ?

HE was our President. He misled us into war. period.

We.re not talking about 'misleading' or warmongering.....we're talking about the CONTENT of the above quotes and the CERTAINTY or doubt conveyed....

You're getting schooled so stay with the debate.


Does that mean that every example I posted above states in no uncertain language that ALL of the statements say that Saddam POSITIVELY had WMD
and that they used different words to convey exactly the thing.....and that.....none of the statements conveyed any doubt about that claim....
 
We.re not talking about 'misleading' or warmongering.....we're talking about the CONTENT of the above quotes and the CERTAINTY or doubt conveyed....

You're getting schooled so stay with the debate.


Does that mean that every example I posted above states in no uncertain language that ALL of the statements say that Saddam POSITIVELY had WMD
and that they used different words to convey exactly the thing.....and that.....none of the statements conveyed any doubt about that claim....

If anyone stated as a matter of fact, that doubt did not exist about the existence of WMD stockpiles in Iraq, they lied. Bush lied. He was our president when he told us that lie.

And certainty of opinion is different than certainty of fact.

I have no doubt versus there is no doubt. opinion versus statement of fact.
 
Ovum, you're embarrassing yourself. Bush et al went to war on Iraq because they stated - firmly - that Iraq had weapons of WMD despite all the evidence to the contrary.

They lied.

You may decide that there were other reasons to go to war; you may decide you don't care that they lied about WMD; but they lied. Just like they lied about Yellowcake uranium.

Stop arguing it. Give up. find another thread.
 
Most incredible conversation ever...

You're basically admitting that Bush was a real president and that everything he said had meaning and gravitas.

And that Obama is a lightweight pretender, who shoots from the hip, and shouldn't be paid serious attention.

I am saying nothing of the kind. You obviously were sleeping during your ESL classes.
 
I am saying nothing of the kind. You obviously were sleeping during your ESL classes.

No, that's precisely what you said.

When Bush says "No doubt" it's "whoa, we better listen."

When Obama says "No doubt" it's, "meh, dude is just talkin' dumb shit he don't know anything about again."
 
that Iraq had weapons of WMD despite all the evidence to the contrary.

Excuse me, but what "evidence to the contrary"?

Who presented evidence to the contrary?

Why didn't the Clintons, John Kerry, Nancy Pelosi, or Harry Reid know about this evidence to the contrary?

Or the coalition partners?

Or Europe's intelligence agencies?

If you're gonna just make shit up, I think it's you who should go find another thread.
 
Intelligence leaves no doubt that Iraq continues to possess and conceal lethal weapons
~George Bush, US President 18 March, 2003

Saddam's removal is necessary to eradicate the threat from his weapons of mass destruction
~Jack Straw, Foreign Secretary 2 April, 2003

Before people crow about the absence of weapons of mass destruction, I suggest they wait a bit
~Tony Blair 28 April, 2003

We are asked to accept Saddam decided to destroy those weapons. I say that such a claim is palpably absurd
~Tony Blair, Prime Minister 18 March, 2003

It is possible Iraqi leaders decided they would destroy them prior to the conflict
~Donald Rumsfeld, US Defense Secretary 28 May, 2003

Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction.
~Dick Cheney
Speech to VFW National Convention
August 26, 2002

Right now, Iraq is expanding and improving facilities that were used for the production of biological weapons.
~George "aWol" Bush
Speech to UN General Assembly
September 12, 2002

If he declares he has none, then we will know that Saddam Hussein is once again misleading the world.
~Ari Fleischer
Press Briefing
December 2, 2002

We know for a fact that there are weapons there.
~Ari Fleischer
Press Briefing
January 9, 2003

"25,000 liters of anthrax ... 38,000 liters of botulinum toxin ... materials to produce as much as 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent ... upwards of 30,000 munitions capable of delivering chemical agents ... several mobile biological weapons labs ... thousands of Iraqi security personnel ... at work hiding documents and materials from the U.N. inspectors."
~George "aWol" Bush
State of the Union Address
January 28, 2003

We know that Saddam Hussein is determined to keep his weapons of mass destruction, is determined to make more.
~Colin Powell
Remarks to UN Security Council
February 5, 2003

We have sources that tell us that Saddam Hussein recently authorized Iraqi field commanders to use chemical weapons -- the very weapons the dictator tells us he does not have.
~George "aWol" Bush
Radio Address
February 8, 2003

So has the strategic decision been made to disarm Iraq of its weapons of mass destruction by the leadership in Baghdad? . . . I think our judgment has to be clearly not.
~Colin Powell
Remarks to UN Security Council
March 7, 2003

Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised.
~George "aWol" Bush
Address to the Nation
March 17, 2003

Well, there is no question that we have evidence and information that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction, biological and chemical particularly . . . all this will be made clear in the course of the operation, for whatever duration it takes.
~Ari Fleisher
Press Briefing
March 21, 2003

There is no doubt that the regime of Saddam Hussein possesses weapons of mass destruction. And . . . as this operation continues, those weapons will be identified, found, along with the people who have produced them and who guard them.
~Gen. Tommy Franks
Press Conference
March 22, 2003

I have no doubt we're going to find big stores of weapons of mass destruction.
~Defense Policy Board member Kenneth Adelman
Washington Post, p. A27
March 23, 2003


One of our top objectives is to find and destroy the WMD. There are a number of sites.

Pentagon Spokeswoman Victoria Clark
Press Briefing
March 22, 2003

We know where they are. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat.
~Donald Rumsfeld
ABC Interview
March 30, 2003

Obviously the administration intends to publicize all the weapons of mass destruction U.S. forces find -- and there will be plenty.
~Neocon scholar Robert Kagan
Washington Post op-ed
April 9, 2003

I think you have always heard, and you continue to hear from officials, a measure of high confidence that, indeed, the weapons of mass destruction will be found.
~Ari Fleischer
Press Briefing
April 10, 2003

We are learning more as we interrogate or have discussions with Iraqi scientists and people within the Iraqi structure, that perhaps he destroyed some, perhaps he dispersed some. And so we will find them.
~George "aWol" Bush
NBC Interview
April 24, 2003

There are people who in large measure have information that we need . . . so that we can track down the weapons of mass destruction in that country.
~Donald Rumsfeld
Press Briefing
April 25, 2003

We'll find them. It'll be a matter of time to do so.
~George "aWol" Bush
Remarks to Reporters
May 3, 2003

I'm absolutely sure that there are weapons of mass destruction there and the evidence will be forthcoming. We're just getting it just now.
~Colin Powell
Remarks to Reporters
May 4, 2003

We never believed that we'd just tumble over weapons of mass destruction in that country.
~Donald Rumsfeld
Fox News Interview
May 4, 2003

I'm not surprised if we begin to uncover the weapons program of Saddam Hussein -- because he had a weapons program.
~George "aWol" Bush
Remarks to Reporters
May 6, 2003

U.S. officials never expected that "we were going to open garages and find" weapons of mass destruction.
~Condoleeza Rice
Reuters Interview
May 12, 2003

I just don't know whether it was all destroyed years ago -- I mean, there's no question that there were chemical weapons years ago -- whether they were destroyed right before the war, (or) whether they're still hidden.
~Maj. Gen. David Petraeus, Commander 101st Airborne
Press Briefing
May 13, 2003

Before the war, there's no doubt in my mind that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction, biological and chemical. I expected them to be found. I still expect them to be found.
~Gen. Michael Hagee, Commandant of the Marine Corps
Interview with Reporters
May 21, 2003

Given time, given the number of prisoners now that we're interrogating, I'm confident that we're going to find weapons of mass destruction.
~Gen. Richard Myers, Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff
NBC Today Show interview
May 26, 2003

They may have had time to destroy them, and I don't know the answer.
~Donald Rumsfeld
Remarks to Council on Foreign Relations
May 27, 2003

For bureaucratic reasons, we settled on one issue, weapons of mass destruction (as justification for invading Iraq) because it was the one reason everyone could agree on.
~Paul Wolfowitz
Vanity Fair interview
May 28, 2003

It was a surprise to me then and it remains a surprise to me now that we have not uncovered weapons, as you say, in some of the forward dispersal sites. Believe me, it's not for lack of trying. We've been to virtually every ammunition supply point between the Kuwaiti border and Baghdad, but they're simply not there.
~Lt. Gen. James Conway, 1st Marine Expeditionary Force
Press Interview

But for those who say we haven't found the banned manufacturing devices or banned weapons, they're wrong, we found them.
--George W. Bush
Interview with TVP Poland
5/30/2003

You remember when [Secretary of State] Colin Powell stood up in front of the world, and he said Iraq has got laboratories, mobile labs to build biological weapons ...They're illegal. They're against the United Nations resolutions, and we've so far discovered two...And we'll find more weapons as time goes on And we'll find more weapons as time goes on
--George W. Bush
Press Briefing
5/30/2003

But for those who say we haven't found the banned manufacturing devices or banned weapons, they're wrong, we found them.
--George W. Bush
Interview with TVP Poland
5/30/2003

You remember when [Secretary of State] Colin Powell stood up in front of the world, and he said Iraq has got laboratories, mobile labs to build biological weapons ...They're illegal. They're against the United Nations resolutions, and we've so far discovered two...And we'll find more weapons as time goes on And we'll find more weapons as time goes on
--George W. Bush
Press Briefing
5/30/2003

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article4882.htm
 
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