Americans Renouncing Their Citizenship

evince said:
some people love a few tax dollars more than they love this country.

we are a better country with them GONE
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Yes we are....

http://www.justplainpolitics.com/sh...Renounce-Your-Citizenship&highlight=marc+rich

What a surprise, big time democrat supporters evading taxes.....

Among them, one of the most high-profile examples was Facebook co-founder Eduardo Saverin, who filed to relinquish his U.S. citizenship in September 2011; Facebook had its initial public offering in May 2012. Saverin, a Brazil native, had already been living in Singapore for three years after emigrating to the U.S. in 1998. He could reportedly save as much as $100 million in taxes because Singapore does not tax capital gains.

Saverin isn’t the only famous renunciation. Singer and socialite Denise Rich also gave up her citizenship last year under her maiden name, Denise Eisenberg. She is well-known as the ex-wife of former international fugitive Marc Rich, a commodities trader who was indicted on 50 counts of wire fraud, tax evasion, racketeering and other charges. But on his last day in office in 2001, former president Bill Clinton pardoned Rich.
 
Is it ONLY tax policy driving these people away? Sometimes I'd like to leave just because I'm beginning to not recognize my own country anymore. But consider this, the article states that most of these people are ALREADY living overseas. If you're living in Canada, a country with a small population but evidently a high tax rate, and you're already paying at least some of those taxes for government services rendered, why double down? It really doesn't make sense to anyone who knows how money works. If you consider health care, Canada has a single payer scheme that is by no means perfect, but works reasonably well for an entire population that is less than the number of people in the US without health insurance!
 
Threedee said:
Leaving #1 is pretty stupid, even if you are financially set. Not to mention pathetic.
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Not necessarily. The debate is based on a false premise. That those expats who've renounced their US citizenship did so for monetary gains by avoiding taxation or from antipathy towards the US.

In most cases those US Citizens who live abroad are doubled taxed. They are taxed by the US and they are taxed in country in which they reside. For many they have lived in those other countries for so long and probably intend to live there the rest of their lives that paying double the tax load doesn't make financial sense.
 
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evince said:
then he says this country wont protect him ?

he is better off gone.


Its his right
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Bullshit. The laws are what they are and just because a person puts their money to work doesn't mean they are not living up to their civic responsibilities. That's why many of these tax shelters and exemptions exist so that people will put that money into circulation via investment where it does the US public good instead of moldering in a bank collecting substandard interest rates. Added that those in the investor class are often paying, albeit fairly, a higher progressive tax rate. Which means they contribute more to public investment. I have no problem with tax breaks of the "use it or lose it" kind which forces you to either invest a higher proportion of your income in the commercial sector, which improves our economy and keeps money in circulation, or pay higher taxes which improves public investment and infrastructure and also keeps money in circulation. Both benefit our nation.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Good luck with that. The US does not permit dual citizenship.
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What are the requirements for an American to hold dual citizenship in the US and Mexico?

In: Mexico, Dual Citizenship

Answer:
The individual would have to be deemed a U.S. citizen by birth, and also deemed a Mexican citizen under Mexican law. Here's why:

The United States has two types of citizenship, citizenship by birth and citizenship by naturalization.

U.S. citizenship by birth and "dual citizenship"

The specification of what characteristics must accrue to those accorded U.S. citizenship by birth is primarily set forth in Title 8, United States Code, section 1401, but 8 U.S.C. §1401a, 8 U.S.C. §1402, 8 U.S.C. §1403, 8 U.S.C. §1404, 8 U.S.C. §1405, 8 U.S.C. §1406, 8 U.S.C. §1407, 8 U.S.C. §1408, and 8 U.S.C. §1409 also speak to this.

Some of those accorded U.S. citizenship by birth include persons born outside the United States. For instance, inter alia, 8 U.S.C. §1401(c), 8 U.S.C. §1401(d), 8 U.S.C. §1401(g) and 8 U.S.C. §1401(h) specify characteristics accruing to individuals who are considered U.S. citizens by birth, but who are born outside the geographical boundaries of the United States. This is the American jus sanguinis.

It is therefore corollary to this status that those individuals are both entitled to U.S. citizenship by birth through the jus sanguinis and citizenship in and of the relevant foreign nation through that nation's jus soli. That is, when one is a U.S. citizen by birth because one has the characteristics accruing to oneself that are specified in 8 U.S.C. §1401 et seq., it is a matter of birth, and not choice.

Therefore, by the jus soli as to both countries, one is a U.S. citizen by birth and in some way is subject to the citizenship laws of the foreign nation, simultaneously. This status is what is meant by the term "dual citizenship".

U.S. citizenship by naturalization and the legal impossibility of "dual citizenship"

U.S. citizenship by naturalization, however, stands in contrast to this. Particularly instructive about U.S. citizenship by naturalization, set forth in Title 8, United States Code, section 1421, et seq., is 8 U.S.C. §1448(a)(2):

"[a] person who has applied for naturalization shall, in order to be and before being admitted to citizenship, take in a public ceremony before the Attorney General or a court with jurisdiction under section 1421(b) of this title an oath:

...

to renounce and abjure absolutely and entirely all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which the applicant was before a subject or citizen[.]"

What this means is that under U.S. law, at the moment of naturalization, by U.S. law one is no longer a citizen of the nation from which one originated, and henceforth is only a U.S. citizen. Therefore, for naturalized citizens of the United States, it is legally impossible to be a "dual citizen".
 
I wonder if any of the leftist celebrities who said they'd leave America if Bush was elected/reelected renounced their citizenship?
 
Threedee said:
Leaving #1 is pretty stupid, even if you are financially set. Not to mention pathetic.
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One of the main reasons, I imagine, that we can get away with taxing expatriates like this is that American citizenship is a highly valued commodity, and not something easily given up. If the Dane's or someone tried to do this, a much larger percentage of their expatriates would be doing this than we're currently getting. As it is, I don't see how the policy hurts us. If they're comfortable giving up their citizenship over some taxes, they probably had no interest in ever returning to the country or contributing to it again anyway.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Good luck with that. The US does not permit dual citizenship.
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Americans who get another citizenship only lose their American one if they acquired the foreign citizenship specifically with the intention of renouncing their American one. And foreigners take an oath announcing they that renounce all other citizenship's upon taking on American citizenship, but this has never been interpreted as requiring them to go out and specifically terminate their American citizenship, and most countries don't consider the oath sufficient for terminating their citizenship (it's usually very difficult to actually renounce citizenship, due to problems states have had with dealing with the stateless). So, the US doesn't encourage dual citizenship or even particularly like it, but there's no specific set of rules that effectively prevent it from occurring.

You'd have to require nationals to specifically go through their countries process of renouncing citizenship before their allowed to be naturalized, and you'd have to specifically pass a law automatically removing anyone's American citizenship as soon as they get another one. The second would be very difficult, in many cases - what if someone were granted a citizenship they didn't even really want automatically through some legislative change in another country (a lot of countries pass very broad citizenship laws that claim all people of some nationality as citizens, and there would also be problems with immigrants giving birth and the child being granted citizenship in their former country through some obscure clause)? Unless you immediately terminated their citizenship without even notifying them or giving them a chance to renounce the unwanted citizenship, you'd have dual citizens, wouldn't you?
 
callinectes said:
Is it ONLY tax policy driving these people away? Sometimes I'd like to leave just because I'm beginning to not recognize my own country anymore. But consider this, the article states that most of these people are ALREADY living overseas. If you're living in Canada, a country with a small population but evidently a high tax rate, and you're already paying at least some of those taxes for government services rendered, why double down? It really doesn't make sense to anyone who knows how money works. If you consider health care, Canada has a single payer scheme that is by no means perfect, but works reasonably well for an entire population that is less than the number of people in the US without health insurance!
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They get a credit as well as a deduction on their foreign taxes, so if they live in a country with higher taxes than the US, they'd pay nothing. This credit can't exceed your total tax obligations, so they can't benefit from it, of course. They still have to file the forms, though, which can be frustrating.
 
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