"Why I fled libertarianism — and became a liberal "

Anti-Party

Tea Is The New Kool-Aid
http://www.salon.com/2013/12/28/why_i_fled_libertarianism_and_became_a_liberal/

The night before the 2008 Nevada Republican convention, the Ron Paul delegates all met at a Reno high school. Although I’d called myself a libertarian for almost my entire adult life, it was my first exposure to the wider movement.

And boy, was it a circus. Many members of the group were obsessed with the gold standard, the Kennedy assassination and the Fed. Although Libertarians believe government is incompetent, many of them subscribe to the most fringe conspiracy theories imaginable. Airplanes are poisoning America with chemicals (chemtrails) or the moon landings were faked. Nothing was too far out. A great many of them really think that 9-11 was an inside job. Even while basking in the electoral mainstream, the movement was overflowing with obvious hokum.

During the meeting, a Ron Paul staffer, a smart and charismatic young woman, gave a tip to the group for the upcoming convention.

“Dress normal,” she said. “Wear suits, and don’t bring signs or flags. Don’t talk about conspiracy theories. Just fit in.” Her advice was the kind you might hear given to an insane uncle at Thanksgiving.

Then next day, I ran into that same operative at the convention, and I complimented her because Ron Paul delegates were being accepted into the crowd. I added, “We‘re going to win this thing.”

“Bring in the clowns,” she said, and smiled before I lost her in the mass of people.

I will never forget that moment: Bring in the clowns. At the time, I considered myself a thoughtful person, yet I could hardly claim to be one if you judged me by the company I kept. The young lady knew something I had not yet learned: most of our supporters were totally fucking nuts.

I came by my own libertarian sensibilities honestly. I grew up in a mining town that produced gold, silver and copper; but above all, Battle Mountain, Nev. made libertarians. Raised on 40-acre square of brown sage brush and dead earth, we burned our own garbage and fired guns in the back yard.

After leaving my small town upbringing, I learned that libertarians are made for lots of reasons, like reading the bad fiction of Ayn Rand or perhaps the passable writing of Robert Heinlein. In my experience, most seemed to be poor, white and undereducated. They were contortionists, justifying the excesses of the capitalist elite, despite being victims if libertarian politics succeed.

If you think that selfishness and cruelty are fantastic personal traits, you might be a libertarian. In the movement no one will ever call you an asshole, but rather, say you believe in radical individualism.


Yet I don’t want to gloss over the good things about libertarians. They are generally supportive of the gay community, completely behind marijuana legalization and are often against ill-considered foreign wars, but a few good ideas don’t make up for some spectacularly bad ones. Their saving grace is a complete lack of organizational ability, which is why they are always trying to take over the Republican Party, rather than create a party of their own.

The Ron Paul delegates were able to take over the Nevada convention in 2008, howling, screeching and grinding it to a painful halt. I was part of the mob, and once we took over, we were unable to get anything done. The national delegates were appointed in secret later.

The Republican convention didn’t turn me off of libertarians, but I started losing respect for the movement while watching the financial meltdown. Libertarians were (rightly) furious when our government bailed out the banks, but they fought hardest against help for ordinary Americans. They hated unemployment insurance and reduced school lunches. I used to say similar things, but in such a catastrophic recession isn’t the government supposed to help? Isn’t that the lesson of the Great Depression?

Through all the turmoil, the presidential election went ahead. Although I didn’t vote for him, I wept when Barack Obama took the oath of office in early 2009. They were tears of bewilderment, joy, pride and hope, despite the fact that I did everything within my own limited power to keep the moment from ever happening.

From the ashes of the election rose the movement that pushed me from convinced libertarian into bunny-hugging liberal. The Tea Party monster forever tainted the words freedom and libertarian for me. The rise of the Tea Party made me want to puke, and my nausea is now a chronic condition.

There are a lot of libertarians in the Tea Party, but there are also a lot of repugnant, religious nuts and intolerant racists. “Birthers” found a comfy home among 9-11 conspiracy people and other crackpots. After only a few months, I had absolutely no desire to ever be linked to this group of people.

As evidence, I offer the most repugnant example of many complaints. I’ve heard the n-word used in casual conversation from people I would never expect. Some people might not believe it or think I’m playing the race card, but I’m not. I’ve heard the word more than I care to admit and more often in the run-up to the 2012 election. Perhaps because I’m a big, fat and bald white guy with a mean goatee, racists think I’m on board with them. I am not, and I’m ashamed to admit that my cowardice at confronting this ugliness makes me complicit.

During Obama’s first term, I also went to graduate school for creative writing at progressive college, and I settled into my marriage with my wife, a Canadian and “goddamn liberal.” I can’t point to just one thing that pushed me left, but in Obama’s first term I had a change of heart, moving from a lifelong extreme into the bosom of conventional liberalism.

I began to think about real people, like my neighbors and people less lucky than me. Did I want those people to starve to death? I care about children, even poor ones. I love the National Park system. The best parts of the America I love are our communities. My libertarian friends might call me a fucking commie (they have) or a pussy, but extreme selfishness is just so isolating and cruel. Libertarianism is unnatural, and the size of the federal government is almost irrelevant. The real question is: what does society need and how do we pay for it?

A month before the 2012 election, I changed my party affiliation to Democrat. I am a very late bloomer, that it took me so many decades to develop my own values. I was thirty-nine.

I don’t think regular Americans have any idea just how crazy libertarians can be. The only human corollary I can offer is unquestioning religious fervor, and hell yeah, I used to be a true believer. Libertarians think they own the word “freedom,” but it’s a word that often obfuscates more than enlightens. If you believe the Johann Wolfgang von Goethe quote “None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free,” then libertarians live in a prison of their own ideology.
 
Oh I knew


yes they have some redeeming qualities but its still about being good by stepping on other people.

They have to look around and trash other humans so they can feel "gee at least Im better than those people"


that is not how a family acts.


you don't look at your sister and say "well shes not worth my time".


You don't look at your sick uncle and say " its not my problem I didn't make him sick"



that is not how a team acts.

you don't say "I don't care what happens to the third baseman we may be wearing the same uni but me and him have different numbers on our backs"



are we a team


are we a family


what exactly do you think being a country means?
 
Another poitically confused economically ignorant journalist discovers he is a Liberal; color me shocked.
 
and you want the team split up and fighting each other.

quit using your dick as a swizzle stick


get a decent human emotion for a change
 
and you want the team split up and fighting each other.

quit using your dick as a swizzle stick

get a decent human emotion for a change

This comment coming from a vulgar ignorant asswhipe like you is the epitome of irony. You really are a sociodumbshit.
 
stay on topic assmoocher



Your right wing does NOTHING but insult government constantly.


You don't believe in government


the founders did


WE AMERICANS still do


all you believe in is the destruction of government
 
It's a stupid article. I read it over a week ago. You don't choose your politics based on ad hominem looks at members. Grind is an ignorant prick and makes a bad argument for the second amendment or assisted suicide. That does not mean you abandon those positions.
 
http://www.salon.com/2013/12/28/why_i_fled_libertarianism_and_became_a_liberal/

The night before the 2008 Nevada Republican convention, the Ron Paul delegates all met at a Reno high school. Although I’d called myself a libertarian for almost my entire adult life, it was my first exposure to the wider movement.

And boy, was it a circus. Many members of the group were obsessed with the gold standard, the Kennedy assassination and the Fed. Although Libertarians believe government is incompetent, many of them subscribe to the most fringe conspiracy theories imaginable. Airplanes are poisoning America with chemicals (chemtrails) or the moon landings were faked. Nothing was too far out. A great many of them really think that 9-11 was an inside job. Even while basking in the electoral mainstream, the movement was overflowing with obvious hokum.

During the meeting, a Ron Paul staffer, a smart and charismatic young woman, gave a tip to the group for the upcoming convention.

“Dress normal,” she said. “Wear suits, and don’t bring signs or flags. Don’t talk about conspiracy theories. Just fit in.” Her advice was the kind you might hear given to an insane uncle at Thanksgiving.

Then next day, I ran into that same operative at the convention, and I complimented her because Ron Paul delegates were being accepted into the crowd. I added, “We‘re going to win this thing.”

“Bring in the clowns,” she said, and smiled before I lost her in the mass of people.

I will never forget that moment: Bring in the clowns. At the time, I considered myself a thoughtful person, yet I could hardly claim to be one if you judged me by the company I kept. The young lady knew something I had not yet learned: most of our supporters were totally fucking nuts.

I came by my own libertarian sensibilities honestly. I grew up in a mining town that produced gold, silver and copper; but above all, Battle Mountain, Nev. made libertarians. Raised on 40-acre square of brown sage brush and dead earth, we burned our own garbage and fired guns in the back yard.

After leaving my small town upbringing, I learned that libertarians are made for lots of reasons, like reading the bad fiction of Ayn Rand or perhaps the passable writing of Robert Heinlein. In my experience, most seemed to be poor, white and undereducated. They were contortionists, justifying the excesses of the capitalist elite, despite being victims if libertarian politics succeed.

If you think that selfishness and cruelty are fantastic personal traits, you might be a libertarian. In the movement no one will ever call you an asshole, but rather, say you believe in radical individualism.


Yet I don’t want to gloss over the good things about libertarians. They are generally supportive of the gay community, completely behind marijuana legalization and are often against ill-considered foreign wars, but a few good ideas don’t make up for some spectacularly bad ones. Their saving grace is a complete lack of organizational ability, which is why they are always trying to take over the Republican Party, rather than create a party of their own.

The Ron Paul delegates were able to take over the Nevada convention in 2008, howling, screeching and grinding it to a painful halt. I was part of the mob, and once we took over, we were unable to get anything done. The national delegates were appointed in secret later.

The Republican convention didn’t turn me off of libertarians, but I started losing respect for the movement while watching the financial meltdown. Libertarians were (rightly) furious when our government bailed out the banks, but they fought hardest against help for ordinary Americans. They hated unemployment insurance and reduced school lunches. I used to say similar things, but in such a catastrophic recession isn’t the government supposed to help? Isn’t that the lesson of the Great Depression?

Through all the turmoil, the presidential election went ahead. Although I didn’t vote for him, I wept when Barack Obama took the oath of office in early 2009. They were tears of bewilderment, joy, pride and hope, despite the fact that I did everything within my own limited power to keep the moment from ever happening.

From the ashes of the election rose the movement that pushed me from convinced libertarian into bunny-hugging liberal. The Tea Party monster forever tainted the words freedom and libertarian for me. The rise of the Tea Party made me want to puke, and my nausea is now a chronic condition.

There are a lot of libertarians in the Tea Party, but there are also a lot of repugnant, religious nuts and intolerant racists. “Birthers” found a comfy home among 9-11 conspiracy people and other crackpots. After only a few months, I had absolutely no desire to ever be linked to this group of people.

As evidence, I offer the most repugnant example of many complaints. I’ve heard the n-word used in casual conversation from people I would never expect. Some people might not believe it or think I’m playing the race card, but I’m not. I’ve heard the word more than I care to admit and more often in the run-up to the 2012 election. Perhaps because I’m a big, fat and bald white guy with a mean goatee, racists think I’m on board with them. I am not, and I’m ashamed to admit that my cowardice at confronting this ugliness makes me complicit.

During Obama’s first term, I also went to graduate school for creative writing at progressive college, and I settled into my marriage with my wife, a Canadian and “goddamn liberal.” I can’t point to just one thing that pushed me left, but in Obama’s first term I had a change of heart, moving from a lifelong extreme into the bosom of conventional liberalism.

I began to think about real people, like my neighbors and people less lucky than me. Did I want those people to starve to death? I care about children, even poor ones. I love the National Park system. The best parts of the America I love are our communities. My libertarian friends might call me a fucking commie (they have) or a pussy, but extreme selfishness is just so isolating and cruel. Libertarianism is unnatural, and the size of the federal government is almost irrelevant. The real question is: what does society need and how do we pay for it?

A month before the 2012 election, I changed my party affiliation to Democrat. I am a very late bloomer, that it took me so many decades to develop my own values. I was thirty-nine.

I don’t think regular Americans have any idea just how crazy libertarians can be. The only human corollary I can offer is unquestioning religious fervor, and hell yeah, I used to be a true believer. Libertarians think they own the word “freedom,” but it’s a word that often obfuscates more than enlightens. If you believe the Johann Wolfgang von Goethe quote “None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free,” then libertarians live in a prison of their own ideology.

The Republican who pretends to be a "Libertarian" AKA Randall Paul, is simply trying to straddle two boats going in different directions.

A true "Libertarian" is much more liberal than conservative. Too many politicians try to cover too many bases, and the "libertarian leaning" Republican is simply trying to keep his Republican base while also garnering those who don't understand what a Libertarian is.
 
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stay on topic assmoocher



Your right wing does NOTHING but insult government constantly.


You don't believe in government


the founders did


WE AMERICANS still do


all you believe in is the destruction of government

I see you're still a doofus with dreams of revisionist history.
 
I see you're still a doofus with dreams of revisionist history.



what would your debt default have done to this country?


why were you trying to kill the post office when its in the constitution and the founders were willing to pay for it?



why is the post office STILL under a redicules burden to PREFUND all its retirement plans?

who the hell has to do that?
 
why is there NO deregulation the right is against?



why is it you think the government cant do anything correctly?
 
stay on topic assmoocher

The definition of irony and stupid; a vulgar thread troll who tirelessly spams threads with her off topic stupidity telling others to stay on topic.

Yes dunce, you really are THAT stupid; and you wonder why people thread ban your moronic nonsense.
 
the current right in this country which includes the republican party have an adversion to facts.


they refuse undeniable proof for their historically failed ideas sake.



Until facts are again something people can agree on from all sides the republican party and it right wing fools who vote for it even while pretending they don't vote republican will have to be shamed publically.

there is NO other choice for this country to make.


ACCEPT facts or be non stop publically shamed for your refusual to use adult methods of solving problems
 
what would your debt default have done to this country?


why were you trying to kill the post office when its in the constitution and the founders were willing to pay for it?



why is the post office STILL under a redicules burden to PREFUND all its retirement plans?

who the hell has to do that?

I cannot give you answers to your idiot questions until you come to terms with the FACT that it wasn't ME or my LIBERTARIAN PARTY that is doing this.
 
http://www.salon.com/2013/12/28/why_i_fled_libertarianism_and_became_a_liberal/
Actually, a very interesting post AP....I read it with interest....so lets just review what you way...

And boy, was it a circus. Many members of the group were obsessed with the gold standard, the Kennedy assassination and the Fed. Although Libertarians believe government is incompetent, many of them subscribe to the most fringe conspiracy theories imaginable. Airplanes are poisoning America with chemicals (chemtrails) or the moon landings were faked. Nothing was too far out. A great many of them really think that 9-11 was an inside job. Even while basking in the electoral mainstream, the movement was overflowing with obvious hokum.

If you imagine that crazy, conspiracy theory nutjobs are all righties, you're sadly mistaken...for years after the 9/11 we had to suffer the desh theories of controlled explosions of the WTC and the Bush demolition of the Building 7 for the next couple of years...and she wasn't the only left wing nutjob ranting about Bush and his personal takedown of the WTC....and she is your resident life long, total Democrat....Hillary Clinton herself, was the first to question Obama's credentials in their primary, there are still lefties that don't believe in the 'magic bullet' of the JFK ass. etc.....ALL movements and orgs. have their loons and its incredibility naive to think otherwise.........so on your first point, you're wrong.

During the meeting, a Ron Paul staffer, a smart and charismatic young woman, gave a tip to the group for the upcoming convention.
“Dress normal,” she said. “Wear suits, and don’t bring signs or flags. Don’t talk about conspiracy theories. Just fit in.” Her advice was the kind you might hear given to an insane uncle at Thanksgiving.
This one I just don't get....it seems to me her advise was perfectly on the mark and totally rational.....

I will never forget that moment: Bring in the clowns. At the time, I considered myself a thoughtful person, yet I could hardly claim to be one if you judged me by the company I kept. The young lady knew something I had not yet learned: most of our supporters were totally fucking nuts.

I subscribe to the conclusion that if you're in a crowd and consider everyone totally nuts but yourself...you might want to re-evaluate yourself before you
pass judgment on those around you....

I came by my own libertarian sensibilities honestly. I grew up in a mining town that produced gold, silver and copper; but above all, Battle Mountain, Nev. made libertarians. Raised on 40-acre square of brown sage brush and dead earth, we burned our own garbage and fired guns in the back yard.

So you joined a group that has no qualms about labeling YOU a stupid redneck...by you own description of yourself....your new comrades would have no trouble
putting you into that lunatic group that the worships guns and adores "The Duck Dynasty" ...that an odd group you've chosen to assoc. with....


After leaving my small town upbringing, I learned that libertarians are made for lots of reasons, like reading the bad fiction of Ayn Rand or perhaps the passable writing of Robert Heinlein. In my experience, most seemed to be poor, white and undereducated. They were contortionists, justifying the excesses of the capitalist elite, despite being victims if libertarian politics succeed. If you think that selfishness and cruelty are fantastic personal traits, you might be a libertarian. In the movement no one will ever call you an asshole, but rather, say you believe in radical individualism.

I've decided to leave this one alone...I personally don't know a single person that describes themselves as a libertarian..and those of TV like Stossel, are not poor, uneducated and don't justify the excesses of any group, are not cruel nor selfish in the least....

Yet I don’t want to gloss over the good things about libertarians. They are generally supportive of the gay community, completely behind marijuana legalization and are often against ill-considered foreign wars, but a few good ideas don’t make up for some spectacularly bad ones. Their saving grace is a complete lack of organizational ability, which is why they are always trying to take over the Republican Party, rather than create a party of their own.

I neither support or discriminate against homo's...I just don't care about them at all....I certainly don't have to accept what they do as normal nor do I have to accept their wanting to be "married" as man and wife....I won't change the definitions of words in the English language just to appease them....
I do accept them as just plain old humans that have a peculiar life style......and I don't appreciate ANY ONE pushing their sex habits in my face and demanding that I approve of them....I just don't care. All of us have our beliefs and personal values and thats our right....their right...everyones right.


Through all the turmoil, the presidential election went ahead. Although I didn’t vote for him, I wept when Barack Obama took the oath of office in early 2009. They were tears of bewilderment, joy, pride and hope, despite the fact that I did everything within my own limited power to keep the moment from ever happening.

Tears over an election outcome ?.....thats a bit strange to me....

From the ashes of the election rose the movement that pushed me from convinced libertarian into bunny-hugging liberal. The Tea Party monster forever tainted the words freedom and libertarian for me. The rise of the Tea Party made me want to puke, and my nausea is now a chronic condition.
"Tea Party monster" ?....I don't know how to address that...I don't know what crazy propaganda you've been fed to make you come to that conclusion....they don't seem to be even near as crazy or obnoxious as the left wing demonstrators that called for the death of Bush and insulted and ridiculed him for the last decade...


There are a lot of libertarians in the Tea Party, but there are also a lot of repugnant, religious nuts and intolerant racists. “Birthers” found a comfy home among 9-11 conspiracy people and other crackpots. After only a few months, I had absolutely no desire to ever be linked to this group of people.

There are a lot of libertarians, a lot of repugnant, religious nuts and intolerant racists in the Democrat Party....did you accuse Hillary of being a 'birther' in the primary where these questions first surfaced ?......Again, if you think the D Party is free of crackpots, you need glasses...


As evidence, I offer the most repugnant example of many complaints. I’ve heard the n-word used in casual conversation from people I would never expect. Some people might not believe it or think I’m playing the race card, but I’m not. I’ve heard the word more than I care to admit and more often in the run-up to the 2012 election. Perhaps because I’m a big, fat and bald white guy with a mean goatee, racists think I’m on board with them. I am not, and I’m ashamed to admit that my cowardice at confronting this ugliness makes me complicit.

You bring it up our of the blue for no reason, you're playing the race card....so you've picked the right party to join...
It sounds like your can pick out racists by how they look.....really ?

I began to think about real people, like my neighbors and people less lucky than me. Did I want those people to starve to death? I care about children, even poor ones. I love the National Park system. The best parts of the America I love are our communities. My libertarian friends might call me a fucking commie (they have) or a pussy, but extreme selfishness is just so isolating and cruel. Libertarianism is unnatural, and the size of the federal government is almost irrelevant. The real question is: what does society need and how do we pay for it?

I don't know you enough to label you....but if you ascribe to "re-distribution of the wealth"....you're a commie....do whatever you want with your own possessions, leave other people alone....when you want to say "we" in the future....just say " I "....and let others use their god given freedom to do what they think is the right thing to do....they don't want or need your input or help....


A month before the 2012 election, I changed my party affiliation to Democrat. I am a very late bloomer, that it took me so many decades to develop my own values. I was thirty-nine.
I don’t think regular Americans have any idea just how crazy libertarians can be. The only human corollary I can offer is unquestioning religious fervor, and hell yeah, I used to be a true believer. Libertarians think they own the word “freedom,” but it’s a word that often obfuscates more than enlightens. If you believe the Johann Wolfgang von Goethe quote “None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free,” then libertarians live in a prison of their own ideology.

The fact that YOU think differently than "REGULAR AMERICANS" is quite telling in itself....you're superior in some way are you ?

Do you think most Americans FALSELY believe they are free.....???

What most of us know is that we did enjoy more freedom decades ago and over the last few years of the "progressive" power grab, our freedoms are in jeopardy more and more with each passing year they have control.....they nibble away like a cancer on the Constitution....parsing and re-defining and warping
its original intent until it bends to their agenda.....truly dangerous to all of us....
 
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anyone who would not cry for the people winning out against a party that tries to cheat them out of an election should not really be calling themselves an American.

when you support a party with decades of cheating to win in their record in spite of what democracy is supposed to be then you need to get the fuck out of this country
 
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