The Christ Haters Are At It Again Folks.

[Stretch]

So let me ask you this, because I've seen this argument over and over, and I've asked this question and NEVER gotten an answer.

Christians try to push legislation that encompasses their agenda and beliefs - like the issue of same-sex marriage or abortion.

If you believe that same-sex marriage is a sin, then the obvious solution is: don't marry someone of the same sex.

But who are you to try and force that belief, through legislation (or frankly by any other means) on others? Why can you not live and let live? How does a gay couple getting married harm you in any way whatsoever?

By the same token, let's say you live on the east coast in Key West, FL, and there is a woman living in the northwesternmost point of Alaska. You two will never meet, you are entirely unaware of each others' existence and will remain so for eternity.

How does whether or not this woman has an abortion affect you in any way whatsoever? Who are you to dictate to her whether or not she can have an abortion? Isn't the obvious answer simply for you not to have an abortion and if someone else does what happens to their soul is up to them?

Who are you to decide and/or dictate to someone else what is wrong for THEM? Especially if they do not share the same religious beliefs as you?

1) It would take forever to post all the appropriate Scriptures and history of civilization to outline the destruction of empires and nations that have fallen due to humans going against their God-given physical nature. People can sing God Bless America all they want, but we are a nation under Divine Judgment right now. He has given us over to our passions and our own desires to disobey him. The Bible declares that his patience and longsuffering does not last forever. When nations continually turn their backs to him, he turns his back on us and allows us to destroy ourselves. This comes as no surprise or shock to Christians. The answer now is as the Bible says, "Lord come quickly."

2) Abortion is murder. Women want the right to rule their own body's destiny. Fine. Women can kill their own bodies, then. No reason to kill the other person's life within.

 

[Stretch]

You are amazingly, astoundingly wrong about that.

It's about both keeping government out of religion and keeping religion out of the government.

It was a one-way street..........

The U.S. Constitution prohibits the federal and state governments from nationalizing any religion, from creating a national church (i.e. The Church Of England), and from favoring one religion over another.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof…"

The whole "wall of separation" thing between Church & State came from a letter from Thomas Jefferson. Jefferson stated that the "wall of separation" (as he called it) was an affirmation of "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof…". It was government staying out of the churches. Here is the Danbury letter:

To messers. Nehemiah Dodge, Ephraim Robbins, & Stephen S. Nelson, a committee of the Danbury Baptist association in the state of Connecticut.

Gentlemen

The affectionate sentiments of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful and zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, & in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more and more pleasing.

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.

I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection & blessing of the common father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves & your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem.

Th Jefferson
Jan. 1. 1802.

 

[signalmankenneth]

 

[Buckly J. Ewer]

Merry fucking Christmas...

 

[Stelakh]

1) It would take forever to post all the appropriate Scriptures and history of civilization to outline the destruction of empires and nations that have fallen due to humans going against their God-given physical nature. People can sing God Bless America all they want, but we are a nation under Divine Judgment right now. He has given us over to our passions and our own desires to disobey him. The Bible declares that his patience and longsuffering does not last forever. When nations continually turn their backs to him, he turns his back on us and allows us to destroy ourselves. This comes as no surprise or shock to Christians. The answer now is as the Bible says, "Lord come quickly."

2) Abortion is murder. Women want the right to rule their own body's destiny. Fine. Women can kill their own bodies, then. No reason to kill the other person's life within.

You have expressed your belief in scriptures, but you haven't answered either question - and this is precisely what I get whenever I ask these questions - responses couched in "scripture" that not everyone believes.

Your religious beliefs do not trump the rights of others, but your answer seems to suggest that they do.

So I'll ask again, with more specificity, and I would appreciate it if you could respond while bearing in mind that by our own Constitution we are not bound to follow your (or any) faith, beliefs or religion:

Who are you to decide and/or dictate to someone else what is wrong for THEM? Especially if they do not share the same religious beliefs as you?

By what right do you seek to stop others from expressing the "free will" that is often the long-standing response to the OTHER question - "why does god allow so much evil in the world?"

I will address your comment on abortion when I have more time later in the day.

 

[PostmodernProphet]

Your religious beliefs do not trump the rights of others, but your answer seems to suggest that they do.

of course they don't.....that power is reserved for liberals.......large soda cups, smoking, burning gasoline, burning coal, same sex marriages, killing children.......everyone knows who's beliefs are important in THIS world.......

 

[philly rabbit]

Example: The seven deadly sins.

We have NO law against greed, envy, sloth, etc. They may be "sin" in your religion, but they are not law.

Example: the 10c

We have NO law against more than half the 10c. And the ones where there IS law, the law would be made regardless of whether there was such a thing as the Bible, or Christianity - as numerous civilizations prove.

Oh stop it, you're being annoyed, you little bitch.

Little whiners like you should be annoyed, it's called freedom. You should be told how to live, you should be told you're sinning. You should be a little bitch whining about being annoyed.

I cannot stand little bitch whiners like you. You can't man up and stop whining because you have a secular agenda.

Otherwise mister, you live under the same laws that I do and those laws are against immoral acts which are designed to protect the innocent and punish those who commit immoral acts by breaking them.

College theories .. Utopian dreaming = little bitch.

 

[Stretch]

You have expressed your belief in scriptures, but you haven't answered either question - and this is precisely what I get whenever I ask these questions - responses couched in "scripture" that not everyone believes.

Your religious beliefs do not trump the rights of others, but your answer seems to suggest that they do.

So I'll ask again, with more specificity, and I would appreciate it if you could respond while bearing in mind that by our own Constitution we are not bound to follow your (or any) faith, beliefs or religion:

Who are you to decide and/or dictate to someone else what is wrong for THEM? Especially if they do not share the same religious beliefs as you?

By what right do you seek to stop others from expressing the "free will" that is often the long-standing response to the OTHER question - "why does god allow so much evil in the world?"

I will address your comment on abortion when I have more time later in the day.

a) God's Word is the final word...for those who don't believe, there can be no wasting of time arguing...the Bible even tells Christians not to argue about it with unbelievers. We can state what the Word of God says and leave the rest up to the Holy Spirit to reveal it in men's hearts. I'm not trying to run around pretending to be Holy Spirit Jr.

b) And, YOU'RE rights don't trump MY rights either. Do what you have to do...I'll do what I have to do.

c) It's not ME dictating anything. I have answered that. So have others. You are only looking for answers that agree with your viewpoint. How many ways do you need to hear people tell you that? I will present God's Word and leave it there for others to either agree with or fight it out with God over it. It's HIS Word, not mine.

d) You answered your own question. People have a free will, they will commit evil if they choose to. Believers AND non-believers are sinners. Our choice is either to open our hearts to mercy, love and forgiveness from the Lord or continue to harden our hearts toward Him and continue in evil.

e) Abortion. Again, you're battle is with God, not me. I choose to defend the lives of the innocent and helpless.

At two weeks pregnancy, the "fetus" can move alone. By four weeks the child has limbs, muscle tissue, a heart and heartbeat. Ears, eyes, and small hands are visible by the fifth week. The child responds to touch sensations by the sixth or seventh week. At eight weeks, the baby sometimes tries to take a breath when removed from the mother. At twelve weeks, the child will often struggle for life two or three hours when removed from the mother.

In Jeremiah 1:5 we are told that God knew Jeremiah: "Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations."

Proverbs 6:16-17 says that God hates those who shed innocent blood.
Deuteronomy 27:25 says, "Cursed be he that taketh reward to slay an innocent person. And all the people shall say, Amen."

Who could possibly be more innocent than an unborn baby? Yet, our society has become so wicked that it condones the slaying of 1.5 million innocent children every year. The Bible says that God HATES people who do this.

I see nothing wrong with encouraging my country's government to protect people from being murdered.

 

[Lightbringer]

Thanks, but we'll pass.

We have this thing against pigs.

Merry Christmas.

I don't remember saying anything to you but since you're so interested you can kiss my ass too Mr. Helper.

 

[philly rabbit]

I am surprised that nobody has noticed this story about a town council that is too scared to have a cross on a Xmas tree in the town square because they may be sued by the ACLU!!

Sent from my Lenovo K52e78 using Tapatalk

"We the people" put that cross up there, not the government. That town council obviously is terrified of government lawyers from the ACLU. The town council isn't representing the people in the town.

This is like putting on a witches costume on Halloween and the government coming after you for establishing a religion. This is how insane this political correctness is and how the secular left has assaulted the first amendment and is winning doing it with absolute intolerant insanity.

 

[Lightbringer]

"We the people" put that cross up there, not the government. That town council obviously is terrified of government lawyers from the ACLU. The town council isn't representing the people in the town.

This is like putting on a witches costume on Halloween and the government coming after you for establishing a religion. This is how insane this political correctness is and how the secular left has assaulted the first amendment and is winning.

Speaking for people who died 200 years ago eh? Yep, you're a dickhead.

 

[philly rabbit]

Separation of church and state is about keeping the government out of the church (or synagogue or mosque) not vice versa.

It's also about preventing the government from establishing a state sponsored church. It IS NOT about preventing the free expression of religion by we the people.

If you ask these secularists, almost all of them favor taxing the churches.

 

[Lightbringer]

It's also about preventing the government from establishing a state sponsored church. It IS NOT about preventing the free expression of religion by we the people.

If you ask these secularists, almost all of them favor taxing the churches.

We all know what you're about so shut your fucking Christian mouth.

 

[philly rabbit]

Americans favor same sex marriage being legal by about a 60/40 split.

This is true because of an all out entertainment media blitz, both TV and the movies normalizing queer sex. No one in the media or in the government would dare tell the American people that sodomy is a filthy, disgusting practice that generates unnatural diseases. Nor would they tell the american people of the hundreds of thousands of homos hospiced and dying of HIV viruses and syphilis.

Your people have won the queer sex debate with entertainment media normalizing queer sex knowing the enormous amount of TV Americans watch daily which is normally around seven hours per day.

What is unnatural with human sexuality breeds unnatural diseases that are terminal or generate a lifetime of mental and physical illnesses but political correctness and a relentless barrage of queer sex from Hollywood has indeed made your statement a reality.

 

[Lightbringer]

This is true because of an all out entertainment media blitz, both TV and the movies normalizing queer sex. No one in the media or in the government would dare tell the American people that sodomy is a filthy, disgusting practice that generates unnatural diseases. Nor would they tell the american people of the hundreds of thousands of homos hospiced and dying of HIV viruses and syphilis.

Your people have won the queer sex debate with entertainment media the normalizing of queer sex knowing the enormous amount of TV Americans watch daily which is normally around seven hours per day.

I think you went the wrong way on this. You're right, but for the wrong reason.

 

[philly rabbit]

I think you went the wrong way on this. You're right, but for the wrong reason.

An I think you're a punk that needs some old testament guy to come along and wait for you to hit him so he can beat the ever living shit out of you.

I think you and read me are just two more products of growing up in fatherless homes and attending communist indoctrination centers. So don't try to have an exchange with me, you already blew it.

 

[Lightbringer]

An I think you're a punk that needs some old testament guy to come along and wait for you to hit him so he can beat the ever living shit out of you.

I think you and read me are just two more products of growing up in fatherless homes.

If you're going to claim to be a Constitutional Scholar then deal with the Constitution. You can do that here you know without being a typical disgusting christian douchebag.

 

[WillReadmore]

When Christ walked on the earth he showed love to the sexual sinners, proud greedy rulers, harlots, tax collectors, murderers, thieves, etc. He loved them so much that he shared the plan of salvation with them. He did not come for the well, He came for the sick (of heart).

Yes, he offered salvation.

He did not propose to harness the government to force humans to BEHAVE like he wanted. The disciples were NOT being led in a political movement. They didn't call for revolution. They didn't demand that laws be changed. In Paul's letters to the Romans, we see Paul strongly stating that even the rule of Rome was fine - an amazing statement if you read history.

Jesus did not suggest that those who obeyed His laws or perfectly avoided sin would be saved.

He did not suggest that a wealthy person would go to heaven - even if that person took the first step of giving up all his wealth.

He offered something very different than what you describe.

Our founders offered something consistent with that. Before nationhood, the taxes collected by some of the original colonies went directly to the dominant church of the state. Those with different beliefs were often outcast.

Instead of that, our founders wrote the 1st amendment and divided government from church. And, states were smart enough to NOT write laws where the only justification was "sin".

 

[Lightbringer]

Yes, he offered salvation.

He did not propose to harness the government to force humans to BEHAVE like he wanted. The disciples were NOT being led in a political movement. They didn't call for revolution. They didn't demand that laws be changed. In Paul's letters to the Romans, we see Paul strongly stating that even the rule of Rome was fine - an amazing statement if you read history.

Jesus did not suggest that those who obeyed His laws or perfectly avoided sin would be saved.

He did not suggest that a wealthy person would go to heaven - even if that person took the first step of giving up all his wealth.

He offered something very different than what you describe.

Our founders offered something consistent with that. Before nationhood, the taxes collected by some of the original colonies went directly to the dominant church of the state. Those with different beliefs were often outcast.

Instead of that, our founders wrote the 1st amendment and divided government from church. And, states were smart enough to NOT write laws where the only justification was "sin".

This is what cracks me up. Jesus didn't worry about government at all. He just wasn't into it. Any discussion of Jesus from a government foundational viewpoint is pointless.

 

[Stretch]

Yes, he offered salvation.

He did not propose to harness the government to force humans to BEHAVE like he wanted. The disciples were NOT being led in a political movement. They didn't call for revolution. They didn't demand that laws be changed. In Paul's letters to the Romans, we see Paul strongly stating that even the rule of Rome was fine - an amazing statement if you read history.

Jesus did not suggest that those who obeyed His laws or perfectly avoided sin would be saved.

He did not suggest that a wealthy person would go to heaven - even if that person took the first step of giving up all his wealth.

He offered something very different than what you describe.

Our founders offered something consistent with that. Before nationhood, the taxes collected by some of the original colonies went directly to the dominant church of the state. Those with different beliefs were often outcast.

Instead of that, our founders wrote the 1st amendment and divided government from church. And, states were smart enough to NOT write laws where the only justification was "sin".

I believe you haven't read or fully comprehended any of all my posts on this matter.

I already said we are to obey the laws of our governments to the point those laws do not directly contradict the Word.

I nowhere stated "that those who obeyed His laws or perfectly avoided sin would be saved." Salvation is by grace through faith.

Wealth has nothing to do with salvation.

As stated over and over ad nauseum, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."
NO ESTABLISHED NATIONAL RELIGION ....... no forced singular established religion like the Church Of England where they came from. Nobody ever had any problems until the last 30 years or so with Scriptures or references to God on monuments, in courtrooms, on currency, etc.

And, I am free to exercise and speak of and demonstrate my faith, my beliefs, my desires peaceably without threatening other citizens with bodily harm or property damage.

1But understand this: In the last days terrible times will come. 2For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3unloving, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, without love of good, 4traitorous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5having a form of godliness but denying its power. Turn away from such as these!

6They are the kind who worm their way into households and captivate vulnerable women who are weighed down with sins and led astray by various passions, 7always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth. 8Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so also these men oppose the truth. They are depraved in mind and disqualified from the faith. 9But they will not advance much further. For just like Jannes and Jambres, their folly will be plain to everyone.
2Timothy 3: 1-9

16All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for instruction, for conviction, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17so that the man of God may be complete, fully equipped for every good work.
2Timothy 3:16,17

The Bible commands us as Christians to be subject to governing authorities (Rom. 13:1; 1 Pet. 2:13-14), even when these authorities are evil people. But if the governing authorities command us to do something that would be disobedient to God, then we must obey God, even if it results in our being punished. Christians disagree over civil disobedience on the matter of abortion. While it is evil for our government to permit abortion, and we should pray and work to see the evil laws overturned, the government is not forcing us to abort our children (as the Chinese government does). If it came to that, we then should disobey the government. If the government said that we could not meet as Christians or teach what the Bible says about homosexuality, abortion, or other moral issues, we must disobey the government.

Thus obedient Christians will fear the Lord’s holiness. They will know His power through the Holy Spirit. They will obey Him above all other authorities.

Stay in the Word and you'll understand why Christians desire do not want to see their country sitting under God's judgment. Ask God all the questions you are asking me.