A historic disaster is coming for the US from the tax bill

Craig234 said:
Insolent ignorance.



No, actually, there was an artificial deadline easily delayed with no serious impact that was EASILY outweighed by the importance of counting the votes - if their goal hadn't been to install the president they wanted.



Wrong. Faced with the various circumstances including the question of that artificial deadline, Gore only sued for a recount in four counties - and had he won what he sued four and those counties been recounted, he'd still have lost.

But that's not what happened. The case went to the Florida Supreme Court, who ordered a statewide recount, and THAT would have corrected the result to a Gore win, we learned later. THAT is what the Supreme Court blocked.


The bits of the rest of your post I saw put you on ignore now.
Click to expand...

not to mention the programs in florida that disenfranchised black voters
 
cawacko said:
You think the proposed Clinton Health Care plan would have reduced the deficit? Zero chance. Republicans are the ones who killed it. You are welcome.
Click to expand...

Reducing the deficit is not government's only goal. If it was, just get rid of our democracy and government. Instant zero deficit. But there are a lot of societal cost savings if we move to single-payer from our bloated private insurance system.
 
Craig234 said:
Reducing the deficit is not government's only goal. If it was, just get rid of our democracy and government. Instant zero deficit. But there are a lot of societal cost savings if we move to single-payer from our bloated private insurance system.
Click to expand...

Well you're trying to offer credit for the deficit dropping and now saying it's not all that important. It makes for an argument of convenience.
 
Craig234 said:
I feel badly for you being this misinformed and uninformed.

You explained some things clearly, but not what you think. You explained clearly how uninformed you are and how little you understand. You mean well, no doubt, but it's sad. But you take offense to Gates, and not the Kochs? Really?
Click to expand...

This was merely an example. I asked you to explain how you believe these billionaires are taking that which doesn’t belong to them necessitating the federal gobblement to redistribute it and this is the best you come up with? You ad hom and nonsequitor is not a substitute for a cogent argument
 
evince said:
not to mention the programs in florida that disenfranchised black voters
Click to expand...

Yes - I wasn't trying to cover the issue of the election but just to give an example about how the right wing has propaganda phrases to use to cover its actions it doesn't follow when it's not convenient.
 
countryboy said:
What a bunch of nonsense. If democrats are so good for income inequality, why did it only get worse under O'Bama?
Click to expand...
For one...he left the Bush tax cuts in place.

But it's more about offshoring than anything else. And this tax bill won't do anything to stop that.
 
cawacko said:
Well you're trying to offer credit for the deficit dropping and now saying it's not all that important. It makes for an argument of convenience.
Click to expand...

You're not good at nuance beyond "nuclear destruction of Earth" and anything less, are you? We weren't discussing the topic of the importance of deficit reduction, but who actually does it and who doesn't. I don't see you as doing well in another topic.

Do you REALLY want to try to take a shot on inconsistency about the importance of the deficit, and walk away bleeding when Reagan's contradiction between SAYING he was against debt for political benefit and having the first huge peacetime deficits in history for another political benefit is brought up? When George W. Bush ran against debt and on a promise of paying off the debt then skyrocketing the debt to give tax cuts to the rich? Cheney 'Reagan proved deficits don't matter'?

Deficits require a discussion more complex than 'totally good' or 'totally bad' or 'unimportant' and it's clear that'd be a waste of my time.
 
countryboy said:
The only ignorance on display here, is your own. Your graphs may be cute, but in and of themselves, they demonstrate nothing. Correlation doesn't necessarily equate to causation. Furthermore, virtually no semblance of the Reagan tax cuts exist today. I noticed you conveniently left out the Clinton tax cuts. ;)
Click to expand...
Because Clinton raised taxes
 
Craig234 said:
There are some big events in our country's history.

FDR did a lot of things right - he eliminated elder poverty (before Social Security, 90% of elders were in poverty); he regulated Wall Street, ending the constant pattern of bank crashes (for the first time, bank crashes ended for 50 years, until Reagan d-regulated the industry and we had the S&L crash). He raised taxes enough to pay our bills, and inequality plummeted.

Reagan gave the country a hatred for its own government, its first huge peacetime deficits, de-regulation of Wall Street, and the flattening of wages while the rich skyrocketed in wealth for decades, restoring great inequality.

That inequality - which has largely destroyed the functioning of democracy and threatens democracy - is our country's biggest problem and needs to be reversed. This tax bill does exactly the opposite, worsening the inequality, another wealth transfer of trillions to the top and gutting of the spending that benefits the American people.

Things are on the wrong direction without this bill. They're on a far worse direction with this bill.

This is a historic moment the way the sinking of the Titanic was a historic moment for ships. The utter corruption that has taken over the Republican Party is about to greatly harm the American people for years or decades to come.

This is the worst bill in decades, and that's saying a lot. Right-wingers, don't bother drooling idiocy in this thread with your ignorant or dishonest denials.
Click to expand...
trumpfins will be hurt as bad as everyone else & yet they cheer.... They screamed gubment is bad for so long, now they scream it is good as they are being screwed by it......

Really, really sad...:palm:
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
My husband -- Mr. Apolitical Except When It Affects the Economy -- agrees with you on this. He thinks this tax scheme, even though it will benefit us personally, will be a disaster overall for younger people and for the deficit. He said that most economists agree that during good economic times, like now, the government should be focused on maintaining or even raising taxes slightly, cutting spending, and chopping the deficit as much as possible. Otherwise when an inevitable downturn rolls around, there won't be any funds for stimulus spending to curb it.
Click to expand...
Especially since he plans to explode military spending
 
Fauxcahontas said:
This was merely an example. I asked you to explain how you believe these billionaires are taking that which doesn’t belong to them necessitating the federal gobblement to redistribute it and this is the best you come up with? You ad hom and nonsequitor is not a substitute for a cogent argument
Click to expand...

Criticizing how informed you are based on your comments is not "ad hominem". It's like telling a person who says "lynch the blacks for being worthless crap" they're being racist and having them complain that's ad hominem.

You are showing yourself just clueless about the very idea of how a society should function - you have some Ayn Rand-like naive views about how when the rich take everything it has no effect on anyone else and is just fine. How do you help that person?

The logic of the right is like the person who say the solution to the problem of the harm of drunk driving of accidents and arrests is to drink more so that they aren't bothered.

All the right seems to know is 'cut government' and 'cut any programs for the poor' and somehow magically that will create prosperity for everyone. They don't have a clue the effects of their policies.

Maybe I need to post an article I wrote here a few days ago titled 'the right has a problem that it doesn't understand the effects of its policies'.

Start with a question: is ANY share of the country's income and wealth too much for the richest person or 100 people to receive? Does it EVER become a policy problem for the country?
 
Bill said:
trumpfins will be hurt as bad as everyone else & yet they cheer.... They screamed gubment is bad for so long, now they scream it is good as they are being screwed by it......

Really, really sad...:palm:
Click to expand...

It's really looking like: you know how a duck hunter can use the thing that sounds like a duck to attract the duck, and then shoots it?

Republicans have these people functioning on the level of "hate Democrats, vote Republican", and then basically shooting them, and when the people say it's a problem, they say blame the Democrats, vote Republican, and they do.
 
Craig234 said:
You're not good at nuance beyond "nuclear destruction of Earth" and anything less, are you? We weren't discussing the topic of the importance of deficit reduction, but who actually does it and who doesn't. I don't see you as doing well in another topic.

Do you REALLY want to try to take a shot on inconsistency about the importance of the deficit, and walk away bleeding when Reagan's contradiction between SAYING he was against debt for political benefit and having the first huge peacetime deficits in history for another political benefit is brought up? When George W. Bush ran against debt and on a promise of paying off the debt then skyrocketing the debt to give tax cuts to the rich? Cheney 'Reagan proved deficits don't matter'?

Deficits require a discussion more complex than 'totally good' or 'totally bad' or 'unimportant' and it's clear that'd be a waste of my time.
Click to expand...

Actually I've already called out the Repubkicans in this thread for their selective choice of when they want to fight to lower the deficit.

These is nuance as you said and just crediting democrats for anything good and Repubkicans anything bad as you are doing isn't it.
 
cawacko said:
Actually I've already called out the Repubkicans in this thread for their selective choice of when they want to fight to lower the deficit.

These is nuance as you said and just crediting democrats for anything good and Repubkicans anything bad as you are doing isn't it.
Click to expand...

You're lying about what I said.

More and more a waste of time. Try to do better.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top