Has socialism already failed in Anerica

[PoliTalker]

Hello Celticguy,

Oversight is part of their job

Such expansion of government doesn't sound very conservative, not the smallest government possible. Where in the Constitution does it say that Congress enforces the law?

How did they just happen to know which institutions to do what with when two weeks before there were no problems at all (as recorded in the Congressional record, not some idle quote) ?
They knew the feces were en route to the rotary oscillator.

Got it. You've got nothing to back up what you say. It's nothing more than your opinion. Got it.

 

[canceled.2021.1]

We do not have socialism in the United States. The post office isn't socialism. We have a crony capitalist system with a massive nanny state. That isn't socialism

 

[Gonzomin]

I'm not sure if you are purposefully leaving out that Secretary Treasurer Robert Rubin pushed for this bill along with Clinton signing it (with over a year left in his administration) or are just ignorant to that fact. This bill was the basic definition of bi-partisanship.

I am well aware that some Dems bought in. However, you are scraping the barrel looking for Dems that backed a Republican bill. Clinton may have bought in at least partly.But this was a culmination of a long term Repub/Banker belief that the Dems fought for years. Have you found any Repubs who did not back it?
You are illogical. A person or 2 who gave in to a Repub Libertarian concept does not make it theirs. Nor does it place the responsibility on the Dems.

 

[cawacko]

I am well aware that some Dems bought in. However, you are scraping the barrel looking for Dems that backed a Republican bill. Clinton may have bought in at least partly.But this was a culmination of a long term Repub/Banker belief that the Dems fought for years. Have you found any Repubs who did not back it?
You are illogical. A person or 2 who gave in to a Repub Libertarian concept does not make it theirs. Nor does it place the responsibility on the Dems.

I'm illogical because Bill Clinton signed the legislation? I'm illogical because Clinton had advisers pushing for the legislation? I'm illogical because there were Democrats in Congress who backed it? Ok dude.

And yes, it was a Republican sponsored deal. It was a Republican led Congress. But that doesn't change the above. And it's pretty damn funny to see you say a President holds no responsibility for legislation they sign.

 

[Celticguy]

Hello Celticguy,



Such expansion of government doesn't sound very conservative, not the smallest government possible. Where in the Constitution does it say that Congress enforces the law?



Got it. You've got nothing to back up what you say. It's nothing more than your opinion. Got it.

Oversight is not enforcement.
You may choose to wear blinders. I do not.

 

[Gonzomin]

Social Security has never missed a check in almost 85 years. It is run on under 2 percent of revenue. Bankers have been fighting to get control of it since it started. Does anyone think they would not loot it and fuck it up? They were fired up when the 3.5 trillion dollar pot was created to get us through the boomers. Bankers wanted to get their greedy hands on it. You can pin a socialist label on it if you wish, but it is just working for the general welfare of the people. That is a duty of the government.

 

[Into the Night]

Nope. The banking collapse was started when Republican Gramm passed a law in a late-night lame-duck session to change banking laws. It permitted banks to use depositors money and slashed banking reserves to they had almost no money to back up bad loans. Then banks sold investment papers that were backed by mortgages. Bankers were making billions. The banks directed their lenders to drop mortgage requirements because they needed vast amounts of mortgages to fill out more investments. They kept dropping requirements over and over until they were essentially gone. Banks had no liabilities because they chopped up the mortgages and sold them off immediately. It was a crime of capitalism, greed and a lack of regulation. No socialism was involved.
I could point out the rating agencies were bought off by bankers and overpowered to approve anything banks threw at them. Also not socialism. It is the old partners capitalists and corruption showing why we need lots of serious regulation.
Regulation works for the people. When repubs buy that regulation is bad, they are for corporations and bankers doing what they want. They will loot you. They always have and always will.

The banks made those mortgages because they were REQUIRED to by law at the time. Socialism.
The artificially low interest rates from the Fed provided the money to do it. Price controls. Socialism.

 

[Into the Night]

How is Socialism being defined?

Socialism is any economic system where wealth is 'directed' by government.

 

[Into the Night]

Social Security has never missed a check in almost 85 years. It is run on under 2 percent of revenue. Bankers have been fighting to get control of it since it started. Does anyone think they would not loot it and fuck it up? They were fired up when the 3.5 trillion dollar pot was created to get us through the boomers. Bankers wanted to get their greedy hands on it. You can pin a socialist label on it if you wish, but it is just working for the general welfare of the people. That is a duty of the government.

Lie. Social Security HAS missed checks. The rate of return on SS is far less than if the money was put into private investments. It is soon to collapse of its own weight for being the pyramid scheme that it is.

 

[Into the Night]

Leaving aside that you are wrong. It was a Republican bill. They had the votes. I remember when it was pushed through Sen, Durbin announced that they fought all night trying to get concessions, but the bill put the American system in jeopardy. There were a couple of other Denms saying the same thing. No Repubs. Your lack of knowledge about the banking crisis is noted. It was signed by Clinton on the way out of office. It was not his bill. It was Gramm and Blileys. Gramms wife was an Enron exec. Phil had tried to get such a bill passed many times.

Myopia. You are forgetting the laws requiring banks to make bad loans. You are forgetting the effects of price controls on money itself imposed by the Fed.

 

[Into the Night]

Same old ignorance. You never disappoint. Obama had nothing to do with the crash. It started during Bush and the Repubs deregulation. It was crashing before Obama got in office.

It started with Carter, then enhanced with Clinton. If Bush was at fault for anything, it was in not doing anything to stop it.

 

[Trumpet]

If you're of the working class, what have you gained from plutocracy??????

 

[Into the Night]

How can socialism fail when it's not implemented? If things are failing here it's our non-socialism system.

It IS implemented to a certain degree. ObamaCare is one, the NEA is another, the EPA is another, most aspects of the FDA is another, the farm subsidy program is another, the CPSC is another, Social Security is another...shall I go on?

Oh...each of these programs is failing, too.

 

[Into the Night]

"How many nations have already embraced socialism’s promise of paradise but instead experienced the effects of socialism’s disastrous reality?"

Oh, so it's Marxism. No, Marxism did not fail in America because it was never tried here.

Lie. FDR was a Marxist.

 

[Into the Night]

America has been a social democracy for more than 100 years and is not going to stop now.

The United States is not a democracy. It is organized as a federated republic.

 

[Into the Night]

Hello Celticguy,



"Isn’t this a clear example in recent memory that affected us all of socialism’s promise of paradise but instead delivered socialism’s disastrous reality?"

No. It is a contrived example of it which does not look at capitalism's roll. Government did not tell Wall Street to create 'credit default swaps' to package these risky loans as ultra low risk investments.

This is just another repackaging of the old myth that Wall Street bears no blame in The Great Recession. It is an attempt to rewrite history.

Lie Government essentially DID tell them to do that. It was an attempt to get around the government requirement to make bad loans. The banks were trying to offload the risk.

 

[Into the Night]

In all fairness, those nations with socialist banking and financial institutions have loads of regulations and have the same kinds of abuses, corruption, and poor financial dealings as the U. S.

Greed is greed whether a person is working for a private or governmental financial institution. Why do people think a person not greedy because he works for a socialist institution?

This is quite right. The problem is the socialist nature of the banking system itself. In the United States, we have the Fed and the current banking laws creating the socialist banking system.

 

[Gonzomin]

The banks made those mortgages because they were REQUIRED to by law at the time. Socialism.
The artificially low interest rates from the Fed provided the money to do it. Price controls. Socialism.

No, that is not what made the crash. I suppose you were in grade school when the crash was being born and raised by bankers. Homeowners were getting emails, and phone calls several times a day asking them to remortgage or to buy a home, perhaps a bigger one. Bankers were giving better and better sounding deals .Buying a home with no money down was a bad deal. They were offering to put you in a new home and you walk away with cash in your pocket. TV advertising was endless remortgaging ads. Your mailbox was jammed with mortgage deals.
It was the banks creating the deals so they could keep cranking out the investment papers The bankers were making trillions and they did not want the party to stop. There were so many mortgage companies they were growing like weeds.
That is what caused the crash. That poor people,(blacks) were getting homes they could not afford. That is just rightys rewriting history and the facts again.

 

[Into the Night]

No, that is not what made the crash.

Yes it is.

I suppose you were in grade school when the crash was being born and raised by bankers.

YALIF.

Homeowners were getting emails, and phone calls several times a day asking them to remortgage or to buy a home, perhaps a bigger one.

Because the banks were basically required to.

Bankers were giving better and better sounding deals.

Because the banks were basically required to.

Buying a home with no money down was a bad deal.

Yes it is, but the bank was required to make the loan anyway.

They were offering to put you in a new home and you walk away with cash in your pocket.

That was legit. It still is. It occurs when people are downsizing their homes.

TV advertising was endless remortgaging ads.
Your mailbox was jammed with mortgage deals.

They still are. Ever hear of advertising?

It was the banks creating the deals so they could keep cranking out the investment papers.

No. The banks were creating the deals because they were basically required to. The investment papers were a way to cover up their losses by foisting it on some other fool. Unfortunately, with artificially low interest rates from the Fed, money was easy and there were plenty of fools out there.

The bankers were making trillions and they did not want the party to stop.

They couldn't stop it without breaking the law.

There were so many mortgage companies they were growing like weeds.

There still are. So?

That is what caused the crash.

Lots of mortgage companies doesn't cause a crash.

That poor people,(blacks) were getting homes they could not afford.

Racism.

That is just rightys rewriting history and the facts again.

Inversion fallacy. It is YOU rewriting history. It is YOU making racist comments to justify your rewritten history.

The crash is a direct result of price controls (socialism) from the Fed, and laws requiring banks to make bad loans (fascism, a form of socialism).

 

[Gonzomin]

Yes it is.

YALIF.

Because the banks were basically required to.

Because the banks were basically required to.

Yes it is, but the bank was required to make the loan anyway.

That was legit. It still is. It occurs when people are downsizing their homes.

They still are. Ever hear of advertising?

No. The banks were creating the deals because they were basically required to. The investment papers were a way to cover up their losses by foisting it on some other fool. Unfortunately, with artificially low interest rates from the Fed, money was easy and there were plenty of fools out there.

They couldn't stop it without breaking the law.

There still are. So?

Lots of mortgage companies doesn't cause a crash.

Racism.

Inversion fallacy. It is YOU rewriting history. It is YOU making racist comments to justify your rewritten history.

The crash is a direct result of price controls (socialism) from the Fed, and laws requiring banks to make bad loans (fascism, a form of socialism).

you know nothing about the crash and what caused it. You just repeat your ignorance and toss in an insult and say what you should be learning from,is a lie. The crash was a creature of bankers and unbridled greed. It also was abour corruption like bankers paying off the rating agencies, The ratings agencies testified that they were pressured and bribed to AAA rate terrible mortgage-backed investments. You must have watched the congressional hearings on that since you think you know something about it. Weren't you upset with that? The banker's deeds were made clear in hearings. Their unmitigated greed crashed the world economy. I am sure you watched them testify too.
Should we go into swaps? That was banks selling insurance on the terrible investment papers they were selling. They sold so much of them, that is was impossible to pay them off is a disaster. Insurance cannot sell more than than the value of investments, but of course, bankers got wavers for that.
You should stop until you actually know something. You are as usual running on empty.