They also collude with big provider networks to set artificially high costs for everything, knowing that both the provider network and insurer will mutually benefit from a business perspective, so the current system offers no incentives to lower costs. It's why we spend at least 2x per capita what every other first world nation does on health care. Greed is the only reason.
Democratic Debate
- Thread starter dukkha
- Start date
They also collude with big provider networks to set artificially high costs for everything, knowing that both the provider network and insurer will mutually benefit from a business perspective, so the current system offers no incentives to lower costs. It's why we spend at least 2x per capita what every other first world nation does on health care. Greed is the only reason.
gfm7175
Mega MAGA
Happy Monday Poli,
No, any individual can rule over themselves. It doesn't matter one iota where they happen to be located nor what their surroundings happen to be. I am speaking of internal rule over oneself. I am speaking of control (from within) over one's own body. I am not speaking about any external controls, as they are all irrelevant with regard to the inward control of oneself.
Not at all. Anarchy is an option. You might be opposed to the idea, but anarchy is still an option.
That's not what I'm talking about. You keep bringing external forces into the equation. I'm talking about self-governance. I'm talking about our inward forces governing over our own bodies. There's nothing external in that equation.
We're talking about two different things.
Correct. The "law of the land" being the Constitution of the United States. That's what I mean when I say self-governance under the Constitution, which is akin to how (if Christianity is believed to be true) Jesus Christ taught self-governance under God.
It's possible without a large centralized federal government. That's what State and Local governments are for...
That's what State and Local governments are for.
Their actions are speaking for them. They refuse to utter the specific words due to the bad publicity they'd get if they did.
Nope, those are all things which liberals have done and are still doing.
Yet you're entitled to your "fact" that you've presented here?
This isn't only hypocritical, it's also a lack of understanding of what a 'fact' is and the function of 'facts'.
That part was my bad; I said destroy when I meant ignored.
Again, they aren't going to openly say something like that. Their actions speak for what they wish to do. I have listed a few of those actions.
Wrong. There is basis for it. I have provided it.
The States are the owners of the Constitution. There is no outside "interpretation" of it by SCOTUS nor anyone else.
You have advocated for a large centralized federal government to tell you what you can and cannot do. You support people who wish to ban items which they personally do not like.
No it doesn't. A "large and strong" country can have a small federal government which unites the country in defense issues and the like, as written in the Constitution, but there are fifty other State governments, and many more local governments, which can handle legislative powers not granted to the federal government, such as various social issues and everything that the federal government has an unconstitutional agency for. In fact, those agencies don't do a damn thing that they claim they do. They only make things harder for the companies which actually DO the work.
Capitalism is an economic system, not a government of any type. Capitalism can exist without ANY government present.
It has planning... How do you think products are developed/tested/created/etc...?? It has responsibility to society. Society is who the products are made for... Society is who purchases the products...
Yes. See the Industrial Revolution as an example. That was driven by capitalism.
It is the best economic system. It creates wealth. Socialism can only exist by stealing wealth.
Yup. So? Those things do not make capitalism bad. Immoral things will pop up, since nobody is perfect and since the free market cannot be destroyed.
No. Pollution is the introduction of something into an environment which is harmful to that environment.
Capitalism accomplishes both.
Yet companies are responsible to those things? Why is that?
A few sects of capitalism are not capitalism as a whole.
Has nothing to do with cancer.
Capitalism is VERY directed.
Government is not required at all. Capitalism works even under anarchy. Government issued a "war on drugs" as its "direction". Guess what, drugs are still sold all around the country. See your local drug dealer...
Because once the government (unconstitutionally) gains power, it does not relinquish it.
They are against the Constitution.
PoliTalker
Diversity Makes Greatness
Goodbye gfm7175,
Too bad you spent all that time writing out so many detailed responses to every point. I'll read none of it. The main thing I was interested in seeing was how you would handle the situation where you have taken it upon yourself to tell me how I think. I told you that is unacceptable, that I must be allowed to think for myself. You are not to write my posts. There is no point in us having a conversation if you are writing both parts. It's actually a bit creepy. And totally disrespectful of the person you are making things up about.
This is what I actually said, not what you posted above and attributed to me:
Since you have not addressed this matter which obviously is very important to me in a manner of mutual respect, but instead have basically blown me off, I can take that no other way than doubling down. Which is certainly your prerogative, but I don't have to put up with it. I've enjoyed our past conversations, but they are concluded now. Feel free to write all you like. Respond to every phrase you disagree with, it won't matter. It will be like talking to a brick wall. I'll not respond again, ever. I'll not post to your threads, which is no big loss anyway, really, because most of them are disrespectfully stolen threads that I refuse to participate in out of respect for original authors of threads anyway. I'll not read your posts even when quoted by others. You are now considered not worthy of replying to. And with your little act of defiance, you become the latest example showing that I mean every word I say in my Signature PIP. You mouth off to me and we are done. So that's it.
It's a shame the internet is so full of people who don't know how to communicate with basic mutual respect, but that certainly is the case, so it is only logical that the discerning poster will have a large Ignore List. Welcome to mine.
And as far as being on my Friends List? Poof. You are unfriended. Unworthy of it.
I'm sorry it has to end this way. It would not be my choice, but I must have my standards. Have a good life. This communication has ended.
Too bad you spent all that time writing out so many detailed responses to every point. I'll read none of it. The main thing I was interested in seeing was how you would handle the situation where you have taken it upon yourself to tell me how I think. I told you that is unacceptable, that I must be allowed to think for myself. You are not to write my posts. There is no point in us having a conversation if you are writing both parts. It's actually a bit creepy. And totally disrespectful of the person you are making things up about.
This is what I actually said, not what you posted above and attributed to me:
Since you have not addressed this matter which obviously is very important to me in a manner of mutual respect, but instead have basically blown me off, I can take that no other way than doubling down. Which is certainly your prerogative, but I don't have to put up with it. I've enjoyed our past conversations, but they are concluded now. Feel free to write all you like. Respond to every phrase you disagree with, it won't matter. It will be like talking to a brick wall. I'll not respond again, ever. I'll not post to your threads, which is no big loss anyway, really, because most of them are disrespectfully stolen threads that I refuse to participate in out of respect for original authors of threads anyway. I'll not read your posts even when quoted by others. You are now considered not worthy of replying to. And with your little act of defiance, you become the latest example showing that I mean every word I say in my Signature PIP. You mouth off to me and we are done. So that's it.
It's a shame the internet is so full of people who don't know how to communicate with basic mutual respect, but that certainly is the case, so it is only logical that the discerning poster will have a large Ignore List. Welcome to mine.
And as far as being on my Friends List? Poof. You are unfriended. Unworthy of it.
I'm sorry it has to end this way. It would not be my choice, but I must have my standards. Have a good life. This communication has ended.
Nothing is free. You pay for those things with your taxes.Like healthcare. You pay more taxes, but you do not have your healthcare costs or insurance costs. So people actually save a lot of money and never have to be concerned with the costs of healthcare. Companies are not concerned with running healthcare and that cost makes them more internationally competitive. Just calling it free is stupid. Universal healthcare can make drug purchasing competitive by bidding. That would make them much cheaper.
Althea
Althea told me...
I'll jump back in here, as this issue was raised in more than one of your posts. Do you believe free college is going to stop corporate greed? Since Obama saved the economy, corporate profits are at an all time high. Corporate cash on hand remains at record highs.
They are squeezing as much as they can from every employee...degree or not.
Another anecdote:
My friend's son graduated RIT engineering with honors. His application at G.E was one in a stack of 100. He was very lucky to win the position. I'm sure all 100 were more than qualified.
Althea
Althea told me...
I've seen those stats. Re. employment numbers, that doesn't mean that they are employed in their desired field, or in a job that requires a degree.
Re. the median salary, that means a good number of grads are making much less than the median. I posted a link that addresses those stats, and the reality behind them.
Althea
Althea told me...
Hey..you know I love ya, but this is a real stretch. She doesn't need to know how antibiotics were invented in order to administer them.
Althea
Althea told me...
Nothing that she was forced to study for more than 2 years, contributed to her nursing knowledge. In fact, it just caused a lot of stress because she was working full time as well. If the program that she was forced to study was based on advanced nursing techniques, then I would be in favor.LV426 said:
Everyone has the right to run their own business. I can't imagine why you would disagree. Do you think that every successful business was a winner from the start? Hell...trump ran his business as an incompetent moron, and the results show it. 'Conventional' business methods are exactly what students are being taught in school. Frankly, being a success has more to do with drive, and motivation (I believe you claimed earlier that only students are motivated) than with being a genius.
Well, you aren't in the field, so you'll just have to trust someone who is. Fortunately, most in the construction field are competent, so they catch the errors handed down from the educated engineers and architects.
Althea
Althea told me...
There's a lot in that post that deals in averages and general info. The 'median' income is only $61,000 because the top of the food chain is in the tens of millions. I've seen you correctly make that point in other discussions here.
The difference between Aetna and the Public Option is that people PAY IN to the P.O, thus helping the program that will be funding it whether it's Medicare or Medicaid.
The cost to obtain coverage will drop, especially because you alter the risk demographic when healthy people like myself barely use the coverage. It might lead to 'free' healthcare in the future, but it doesn't shock the system overnight.
PostmodernProphet
fully immersed in faith..
actually that isn't true......for example in Michigan, at least before Obamacare, state regulations limited insurance company profits to 7% of the benefits they paid out........therefore, companies made MORE if they paid more........that's why you have the curious phenomena that a CPAP machine provided by Medicare costs $3400......while the exact same machine can be bought online for $848.......
PostmodernProphet
fully immersed in faith..
I hope you realize that even if you don't read it, your argument is proven false.......
No, but what it will do is provide everyone with an opportunity to get the education they want for the career they want.
Right, so they have all this money that they're not using to raise wages. So if they're not going to do that, then we should tax the shit out of them to pay for things like health care and education.
As I said before, and posted numerous times, the higher your education level, the higher your wage.
I don't really care.
Wow...so you see a 2.7% unemployment rate for Bachelor's grads and you're like, eh not impressed.
Then you see a higher unemployment rate and lower weekly earnings for those with lower education levels and you're like...free college would be bad.
But still more than those with lower education levels, which is the point.
There exists no numbers that show lower education levels correspond to higher wages.
To which I responded and you didn't respond back.
You don't think it's important to learn the history behind your profession?
Wow.
You sure you're not a Republican? You oppose education and ignore history.
^^Further evidence of the massive failure of our educational establishment.
First and foremost; NOTHING is free. There is a cost to EVERYTHING. Be it actual cost or opportunity costs.
Secondly; if the Government starts PAYING for your healthcare, YOU will be paying for it with much HIGHER taxes AND less services and longer wait times. Those are basic FACTS that are irrefutable.
Lastly; NO ONE will see an increase in pay because the MORONS in the Party of the Jackass will assess a massive increase in Corporate taxes to pay for all this wonderful bullshit the Party of the Jackass dishes out to willful idiots like you and YOU, the buyer of goods and services will pay even MORE.
Carry on dipshit.
I often wonder how anyone can be this stupid. Then I remember who is in charge of educating our children.
You don't know that at all. This is a bullshit, Republican response. Shame.
Well, you are not the arbiter of what is appropriate education for health care, and it sounds to me like your GF is really fucking lazy if she doesn't feel she needs to improve upon the training she has. New shit gets developed all the fucking time, and unless you were personally sitting in those classes with her, then you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Period. Also, really shitty of you to speak for a woman while lending your subjective judgment to things of which you have no qualifications at all.
At. All.
Really? Where is that right enshrined in the Constitution? In order to own and run a business, you must receive a state charter. So basically, you need permission from the state in order to start a business. You can't just start one because you think you're entitled to it.
Most businesses fail, and they fail not because of the market or demand, but because of poor management. People who are not qualified, or educated, or experienced enough to start businesses, and they end up failing all the fucking time.
All the time.
Most businesses fail.
Very few actually succeed and proliferate.
The reason is because of poor management, not poor product, or the market, or consumer demand. Almost always, it's because of poor management.
It wasn't his business. It was his father's. It's like that with most all of these billionaires. They didn't build their businesses, they inherited them and ended up driving them into the ground because of poor management.
Horseshit.
Being a success has more to do with your race, your gender, and what class you were born into than "hard work" and this fantasy of the American Dream; where if you work hard, you get success. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Economic mobility in America is worse than every other modern, first world nation. That mobility becomes even more constrained when you put a hefty price tag on education.
Do you...do you think everyone competes on a level playing field in this country, or do you recognize that certain races, genders, and classes have systemic, inherent advantages in the system that might reward those who don't work as hard as others?
So in your view, engineers and architects are stupid?
Who gives a shit about the history of antibiotics? I would think it's better to learn their uses and understand why and how they're used.
As a professional machinist and toolmaker, I don't give a shit about the history of the lathe, I want to know how and what I can make on it.