Only 39% of Americans believe in Evolution!

[Damocles]

And what does the hypothesis of abiogensis have to do with evolutionary theory? Hardly anything. One is an unsubstantiated hypothesis the other is a proven scientific theory.

Evolutionary theory is stated as "A shift in allele frequency with in a population over time". This fact is based on three biological laws of nature first formulated by Darwin. The law of inheritance. The law of variation and The Law of superfecundancy which, when taken together, form the process of natural selection.

Now, please explain to me where faith is involved in these easily observable facts?

A person with Faith would have it confirmed by such an elegant means of directing Creation...

 

[Damocles]

This is so melodramatic.

Liberals aren't evil people, Dano.

Are you saying that Liberals aren't PEOPLE!!!1!!!shiftplusone???

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

No it doesn't. Biological evolution is completely "non-directional".

An important note. Biologist were the first to reject Social Evolution as being "non-science".

By "positive" I meant they go in a direction that generally makes them better suited to their environment. I would have thought this was rather obvious.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

That is a half-truth. Abiogenesis requires as much faith as that of any religion, if not more so.

I love how you people like to use a scientific term like "abiogenisis" that refers to something (random generation of life from rotting things) completely and totally different to attack the theories of life coming into existence. It makes you think your smarter than you actually are.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

Oh his comments are completely asinine. He's just making an adhominin attack on liberalism.

I was going for more of a sigh and understate than attack on that post.

 

[KingCondanomation]

I was going for more of a sigh and understate than attack on that post.

Try going for addressing the theory.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

evolution is an uneven process, look at knuckle dragging Dixie for christ sakes.

LOL that's true. Evolution is non-directional.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Of course I understand what it is, nor was I attempting to explain it, I was expounding on it with a suggested theory. Anyone who actually READ what I wrote can see that.
Why do lemmings jump off cliffs? Why does anthropological records of many civilizations show sacrifice of victims in poor harvests? And sacrifice of material goods in good times?
Darwin's theory applies well to individuals, with social or pack animals, they often demand what is best for the whole or common good.

Liberalism or any leftish communal ideology is completely in synch with that. Look at the slaughter of the 20th century under Communist/Socialist regimes, look at the sacrifice they demand now.
You are just unable to be critical of your own political beliefs in even attempting to entertain the possible notion that your ideology could derive from something darker and more primitive and I would also add (as for the reasons I mentioned before) - outdated.

You're nuts! This is complete non-sense and has no bearing on the scientific modeling of speciation.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Thanks Mott. Perhaps I should have gone on to teach high school biology, but the money lured me elsewhere.

The average person's understanding of biology is sad.

Do you have a biology background? If so, then really it's as much our fault in not being proactive in teaching the subject but, alas, like you, I went on to more profitable area of work than teaching in high school.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

A person with Faith would have it confirmed by such an elegant means of directing Creation...

What? Huh?

 

[KingCondanomation]

This is so melodramatic.

Liberals aren't evil people, Dano.

First this is not melodramatic, it's a philosophy discussion, (somewhat one-sided as Waterdork and Mottleydude aren't able to debate any of the points).

Leftist ideology believes in the common good and in sacrifice that derives from their ingrained beliefs in achieving that goal.
A lot of it is a good in theory but dangerous, restrictive and irresponsible when put into actual practice via the force of government.

This is a fundamental misunderstanding a lot on the left have. Mottleydude himself often has accused me of being bigoted towards Liberalism because he considers it as just a set of different beliefs. Many people have beliefs, I think a lot on the left for example think highly of the beliefs of Christians, just they have no desire to see those beliefs enacted in government.
I am the same way with Liberalism.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

By "positive" I meant they go in a direction that generally makes them better suited to their environment. I would have thought this was rather obvious.

Not neccesarily. It's a combination of that and/or reproductive advantages.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

Try going for addressing the theory.

It's not a theory. It's a half-baked conjecture.

 

[Cancel3]

Do you have a biology background? If so, then really it's as much our fault in not being proactive in teaching the subject but, alas, like you, I went on to more profitable area of work than teaching in high school.

I got my degree in Secondary Ed/Comprehensive sciences. But just before I finished I ended up a divorced single father of 3, so the money was my motivation.

I teach safety classes, but I often regret not pursuing a teaching position.

 

[KingCondanomation]

You're nuts! This is complete non-sense and has no bearing on the scientific modeling of speciation.

Well fucking of course it doesn't. When was I ever talking about speciation? I am not talking about how new species arise, I am talking about how EXISTING species that are of a social nature act in a mode of survival for the whole or common good.

Again, I think you read some things you considered extreme and decided to go off without bothering to understand.

 

[Damocles]

What? Huh?

Sorry to confuse you. If I had Faith, science would be the means of discovering "How did God do that?" Imagine setting forth a system and being capable of holding such a system in a "plan" so that it would create life as you wanted it, including mankind in your own image. Starting off with primordial ooze (earth) God could create Man, and being able to do it using such a tool would be astounding. Somebody of Faith could be awed by the amazing capacities of The Deity.

Pretending that such a discovery couldn't be profoundly enriching and even reassuring to a thinking person of Faith doesn't change that it very well could be. They may look at the world differently than you do, but it is extremely rare to find somebody even among the faithful that think the Earth is only 10K years old (and among those, they usually believe that in the 6 days of Creation God sped up things so it had the effect of billions of years while passing in just the few days.)

 

[Mott the Hoople]

I got my degree in Secondary Ed/Comprehensive sciences. But just before I finished I ended up a divorced single father of 3, so the money was my motivation.

I teach safety classes, but I often regret not pursuing a teaching position.

Really? Are you a CSP? I have my BA in Human Bio with a minor in chemistry and an emphsis on education (in case I wanted to go into teaching). I did a year of Medical school before dropping out and getting a Masters in EH&S mgt. I have my CHMM but am considering pursuing the CSP credential even though I don't really do much safety work. I'm pretty much a RCRA weenie.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Well fucking of course it doesn't. When was I ever talking about speciation? I am not talking about how new species arise, I am talking about how EXISTING species that are of a social nature act in a mode of survival for the whole or common good.

Again, I think you read some things you considered extreme and decided to go off without bothering to understand.

Dude....you're way off topic here. Darwins theory of evolution is solely about biological speciation.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Sorry to confuse you. If I had Faith, science would be the means of discovering "How did God do that?" Imagine setting forth a system and being capable of holding such a system in a "plan" so that it would create life as you wanted it, including mankind in your own image. Starting off with primordial ooze (earth) God could create Man, and being able to do it using such a tool would be astounding. Somebody of Faith could be awed by the amazing capacities of The Deity.

Pretending that such a discovery couldn't be profoundly enriching and even reassuring to a thinking person of Faith doesn't change that it very well could be. They may look at the world differently than you do, but it is extremely rare to find somebody even among the faithful that think the Earth is only 10K years old (and among those, they usually believe that in the 6 days of Creation God sped up things so it had the effect of billions of years while passing in just the few days.)

Ahh...I see what you're saying now. Well I think Darwin himself pointed that out in his conclusion to "The Origins of Species" when he said;

"There is grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed into a few forms or into one; and that, whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being, evolved."

I share the view you point out. Some term it "Theistic Evolution" to which I say in awe "All glory be to God".

Having said that, this is a philosophical point of view and has virtually nothing to do with the scientific significance of evolutionary theory.

 

[Thorn]

and none of this has anything to do about biological evolution.

Right, Spencer's "Survival of the Fittest" doesn't really address evolution, except in its attempt to explain which individuals may have the opportunity to procreate and thus contribute to the survival of their "line". I think that it may have contributed in its own way to the mistaken notion of "evolution" at an individual level, which is of course nonsense.