Inferior Universal Healthcare in Canada may have killed Actress

KingCondanomation

KingCondanomation

New member
"COULD actress Natasha Richardson's tragic death have been prevented if her skiing accident had occurred in America rather than Canada?

Canadian health care de-emphasizes widespread dissemination of technology like CT scanners and quick access to specialists like neurosurgeons. While all the facts of Richardson's medical care haven't been released, enough is known to pose questions with profound implications.

Richardson died of an epidural hematoma -- a bleeding artery between the skull and brain that compresses and ultimately causes fatal brain damage via pressure buildup. With prompt diagnosis by CT scan, and surgery to drain the blood, most patients survive.

Could Richardson have received this care? Where it happened in Canada, no. In many US resorts, yes."
http://www.nypost.com/seven/0326200...canadacare_may_have_killed_natasha_161372.htm
 
Dude, you are seriously desperate.

How many people who don't wear helmets die in ski accidents in America?

Is it fair to ask if Michael Kennedy, who died of a similar head injury in Aspen, Colorado in 2002 might have survived if he was in Canada? .. Or would that be reaching?

How many people are saved in Canada because they have healthcare compared to the people who die in America because they don't?

You lost the election badly and your party is in shambles.

Shouldn't you be asking what's wrong with your own side of the political fence instead of reaching for delusions?
 
I've been in Canadian hospitals. While our hospitals are probably more advanced, I don't think it would have made any difference in Richardson's case ... although it did cross my mind.
 
KingCondanomation said:
"COULD actress Natasha Richardson's tragic death have been prevented if her skiing accident had occurred in America rather than Canada?

Canadian health care de-emphasizes widespread dissemination of technology like CT scanners and quick access to specialists like neurosurgeons. While all the facts of Richardson's medical care haven't been released, enough is known to pose questions with profound implications.

Richardson died of an epidural hematoma -- a bleeding artery between the skull and brain that compresses and ultimately causes fatal brain damage via pressure buildup. With prompt diagnosis by CT scan, and surgery to drain the blood, most patients survive.

Could Richardson have received this care? Where it happened in Canada, no. In many US resorts, yes."
http://www.nypost.com/seven/0326200...canadacare_may_have_killed_natasha_161372.htm
Click to expand...

You nit wit! She declined medical attention after her fall.

What is it with you wing nuts? It's either a strawman argument or man bites dog post. YAWN!
 
blackascoal said:
Dude, you are seriously desperate.

How many people who don't wear helmets die in ski accidents in America?

Is it fair to ask if Michael Kennedy, who died of a similar head injury in Aspen, Colorado in 2002 might have survived if he was in Canada? .. Or would that be reaching?

How many people are saved in Canada because they have healthcare compared to the people who die in America because they don't?

You lost the election badly and your party is in shambles.

Shouldn't you be asking what's wrong with your own side of the political fence instead of reaching for delusions?
Click to expand...

What delusion, please actually read the article, it's written by a physician and says WHY it's more probable she died with Canada and universal healthcare.

"Assuming Richardson initially declined medical care here as well, once she did present to caregivers that she was suffering from a possible head trauma, she would've been immediately transported by air, weather permitting, and arrived in Denver in less than an hour.

If this weren't possible, in both resorts she would've been seen within 15 minutes at a local facility with CT scanning and someone who could perform temporary drainage until transfer to a neurosurgeon was possible.

If she were conscious at 4 p.m., she'd most likely have been diagnosed and treated about that time, receiving care unavailable in the local Canadian hospital. She might've still died or suffered brain damage but her chances of surviving would have been much greater in the United States. "

Obviously universal healthcare is worse, if it was better WHY would rich Canadians travel to the US for private care?
 
Tabasco said:
I've been in Canadian hospitals. While our hospitals are probably more advanced, I don't think it would have made any difference in Richardson's case ... although it did cross my mind.
Click to expand...

Oh this is just another lame "man bites dog" posting. BAC is right. The real issue is should she have been wearing a helmet? I'm a big cycling enthusiast and I've done my fare share of face plants and had to learn the hard way about wearing a helmet, now I rarely, if ever, ride with out one. Down hill skiing with out a helmet is probably a foolish thing to do.

Not to mention that she decilned medical assistance after her fall, that certainly contributed to the tragedy.
 
KingCondanomation said:
What delusion, please actually read the article, it's written by a physician and says WHY it's more probable she died with Canada and universal healthcare.

"Assuming Richardson initially declined medical care here as well, once she did present to caregivers that she was suffering from a possible head trauma, she would've been immediately transported by air, weather permitting, and arrived in Denver in less than an hour.

If this weren't possible, in both resorts she would've been seen within 15 minutes at a local facility with CT scanning and someone who could perform temporary drainage until transfer to a neurosurgeon was possible.

If she were conscious at 4 p.m., she'd most likely have been diagnosed and treated about that time, receiving care unavailable in the local Canadian hospital. She might've still died or suffered brain damage but her chances of surviving would have been much greater in the United States. "

Obviously universal healthcare is worse, if it was better WHY would rich Canadians travel to the US for private care?
Click to expand...

Regardless of who wrote it those are some mighty big assumptions .. and none of those HUGE asssumptions guarantees she would have survived.

You failed to answer my questions my brother.

How many people who don't wear helmets die in ski accidents in America?

Is it fair to ask if Michael Kennedy, who died of a similar head injury in Aspen, Colorado in 2002 might have survived if he was in Canada? .. Or would that be reaching?

How many people are saved in Canada because they have healthcare compared to the people who die in America because they don't?
 
"Obviously universal healthcare is worse,"

Based on what?

Have you factored all available facts into this conclusion, including the #'s that are denied coverage in the U.S. simply because of corporate quotas?

You are king of the strawmen. Another bad post - a fail, as it were.
 
blackascoal said:
Dude, you are seriously desperate.

How many people who don't wear helmets die in ski accidents in America?

Is it fair to ask if Michael Kennedy, who died of a similar head injury in Aspen, Colorado in 2002 might have survived if he was in Canada? .. Or would that be reaching?

How many people are saved in Canada because they have healthcare compared to the people who die in America because they don't?

You lost the election badly and your party is in shambles.

Shouldn't you be asking what's wrong with your own side of the political fence instead of reaching for delusions?
Click to expand...

I don't know how many people die in ski accidents in America due to not wearing a helmet....and its quite irrelevant in the first place....

As to your second question, how do you know Kennedy had a similar head injury...?? I remember no disclosure about his injuries....speculation was he was drunk at the time also....
Because he was raping a 14 year old bablysitter at home and had earlier issues with alcohol...I'd tend to suspect the worse...

You third question is irrelevant also...but I'd guess the answer is "none"
 
Mottleydude said:
Oh this is just another lame "man bites dog" posting. BAC is right. The real issue is should she have been wearing a helmet? I'm a big cycling enthusiast and I've done my fare share of face plants and had to learn the hard way about wearing a helmet, now I rarely, if ever, ride with out one. Down hill skiing with out a helmet is probably a foolish thing to do.

Not to mention that she decilned medical assistance after her fall, that certainly contributed to the tragedy.
Click to expand...

That's the really sad part of this, and the post that Sol made the other day partly explained that, I think. We also have to remember that helicopters in mountainous areas, even low mountains like the Laurentians, pose a serious avalanche hazard. This, coupled with the extremely low probability of need, would make the feasibility of maintaining a copter service unlikely.

Had she been able to go directly to the Montreal Neurological Institute (she didn't go there at all), she probably would have survived. The key would have been for the ski patrol not to accept her refusal of medical treatment and to insist, in the face of a possible head injury, that she be assessed. How far their authority to do that is questionable, however. Perhaps this tragedy will make people who suffer what may appear to be minor head injuries reconsider this in the future.
 
Mottleydude said:
You nit wit! She declined medical attention after her fall.
Click to expand...

Correct she did and the article addresses that, again read all of it, here you are:

"Her initial refusal of medical care accounted for only part of the delay. She was still conscious when seen at a hospital and her death might have been prevented if the hospital either had the resources to diagnose and institute temporizing therapy, or air transport had taken her quickly to Montreal.

What would have happened at a US ski resort? It obviously depends on the location and facts, but according to a colleague who has worked at two major Colorado ski resorts, the same distance from Denver as Mt. Tremblant is from Montreal, things would likely have proceeded differently.

Assuming Richardson initially declined medical care here as well, once she did present to caregivers that she was suffering from a possible head trauma, she would've been immediately transported by air, weather permitting, and arrived in Denver in less than an hour.

If this weren't possible, in both resorts she would've been seen within 15 minutes at a local facility with CT scanning and someone who could perform temporary drainage until transfer to a neurosurgeon was possible.

If she were conscious at 4 p.m., she'd most likely have been diagnosed and treated about that time, receiving care unavailable in the local Canadian hospital. She might've still died or suffered brain damage but her chances of surviving would have been much greater in the United States. "
 
MotleyDude,

Down hill skiing with out a helmet is probably a foolish thing to do.
Click to expand...

Absolutely, as is riding a motorcycle without a helmet. You risk your life doing so.

Trying to squeeze this tragedy into some anti-healthcare slogan and make Richardson the poster-child for our failed healthcare system is beyond the ridiculous.
 
Thorn said:
That's the really sad part of this, and the post that Sol made the other day partly explained that, I think. We also have to remember that helicopters in mountainous areas, even low mountains like the Laurentians, pose a serious avalanche hazard. This, coupled with the extremely low probability of need, would make the feasibility of maintaining a copter service unlikely.

Had she been able to go directly to the Montreal Neurological Institute (she didn't go there at all), she probably would have survived. The key would have been for the ski patrol not to accept her refusal of medical treatment and to insist, in the face of a possible head injury, that she be assessed. How far their authority to do that is questionable, however. Perhaps this tragedy will make people who suffer what may appear to be minor head injuries reconsider this in the future.
Click to expand...

Well said brother.
 
blackascoal said:
MotleyDude,



Absolutely, as is riding a motorcycle without a helmet. You risk your life doing so.

Trying to squeeze this tragedy into some anti-healthcare slogan and make Richardson the poster-child for our failed healthcare system is beyond the ridiculous.
Click to expand...

"Her initial refusal of medical care accounted for only part of the delay. She was still conscious when seen at a hospital and her death might have been prevented if the hospital either had the resources to diagnose and institute temporizing therapy, or air transport had taken her quickly to Montreal.

This suggests something was lacking in the care her received.
 
bravo said:
I don't know how many people die in ski accidents in America due to not wearing a helmet....and its quite irrelevant in the first place....

As to your second question, how do you know Kennedy had a similar head injury...?? I remember no disclosure about his injuries....speculation was he was drunk at the time also....
Because he was raping a 14 year old bablysitter at home and had earlier issues with alcohol...I'd tend to suspect the worse...

You third question is irrelevant also...but I'd guess the answer is "none"
Click to expand...

MEGA- stupid on every level.

"Because he was raping a 14 year old bablysitter at home and had earlier issues with alcohol" ..Talk about irrelevant.

Michael Kennedy plowed into a tree on Aspen Mountain, suffering a fatal head injury while playing a game of ski-football.

Don't they get the news on boats?
 
blackascoal said:
MEGA- stupid on every level.

"Because he was raping a 14 year old bablysitter at home and had earlier issues with alcohol" ..Talk about irrelevant.

Michael Kennedy plowed into a tree on Aspen Mountain, suffering a fatal head injury while playing a game of ski-football.

Don't they get the news on boats?
Click to expand...

Yes ..its irrelevant to his injury, I didn't say otherwise...it was the speculation in the media at the time about alcohol being a factor that I was talking about....the man had issues....
 
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29733775/

At 3 p.m., a second 911 call was made — this time from Richardson’s luxury hotel room — as her condition deteriorated. An ambulance arrived nine minutes later.

“She was conscious and they could talk to her,” Coderre said. “But she showed instability.”

The medics tended to her for a half-hour before transporting her to a hospital a 40-minute drive away.
==================
The medics treating her for 30 minutes before transportation to a hospital seems a mistake too,,,in hindsight....
That 30 minutes could have made all the difference...
 
"The medics treating her for 30 minutes before transportation to a hospital seems a mistake too,,,in hindsight....
That 30 minutes could have made all the difference... "

Honestly, I don't think we want to go to a place of all of the errors that have cost people their lives in the United States.

It is beyond subjective to take the case of Natasha Richardson & draw a wide-ranging conclusion that "universal healthcare does not work" because of it. The problems with American healthcare & medical insurance are widespread, well-known & documented. There are problems everywhere, but it is not as though medics here are infallible.
 
bravo said:
Yes ..its irrelevant to his injury, I didn't say otherwise...it was the speculation in the media at the time about alcohol being a factor that I was talking about....the man had issues....
Click to expand...

Completely and totally disconnected from the issue.

Richardson took her own life in her hands when she decided not to wear a helmet, then decided not to seek medical attention.

This issue is about head trauma, the need to wear helmets when attempting dangerous activity, and the need to immediately seek medical attention when any trauma to the heads happens .. which if she had done might have kept her alive no matter where the accident occured.

How many people die in America because they have no healthcare compared to Canada where everyone has healthcare? The answer is obvious to all with half a brain.

Healthcare beats NO HEALTHCARE all day long.
 
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