We have to split up!

[Dutch Uncle]

Libertarianism appeals to young men in particular

In my experience it usually has to do with the myths of honorable kings


Children love the myths of honorable king


They imagine being princesses and knights

Kings and queens


Noble people who love their kingdom of people

Helping their minions and being loved by the people in their care


Childhood fantasy’s

Girls grow into women and don’t want to be ruled

Boys grow into men and some still pine for being a noble kings and savior knights


Libertarianism isn’t even the best system on paper

Young people tend to be idealistic. The whole "if you're not a liberal when you're young, you have no heart, if you're not a conservative when you're middle-aged, you have no brain" thing.

 

[evince]

Young people tend to be idealistic. The whole "if you're not a liberal when you're young, you have no heart, if you're not a conservative when you're middle-aged, you have no brain" thing.

Guess who made that one up?


Some con trying to convince people that being moral was equal to stupid


I was idealistic too


But I stuck to reality and facts over fantasy


Which is why I remained a liberal all my life

 

[Micawber]

How do you figure that? Look around this forum, your neighborhood, your social media, etc. The "conservatives" of the US are, at this very moment, holding a days-long conference about conspiracy theories. Their keynote speaker is the most dangerous and overtly evil person who has wielded political power in the country -- maybe ever. Sanity has not been reconstituted. It's just been given back its chair in the federal government. As the country continues on its path of progression that has been set since the end of WWII 75 years ago, these people will feel increasingly marginalized. They will act out in ever more destructive ways because they have never, ever had to cooperate in a heterogeneous society. They refuse to share power. They've been calling themselves victims every since Starbucks said, "Happy holidays." Our darkest days are not yet behind us, I don't think.

We have taken all power away from them you basically can in one cycle because of their outrageous and unhinged unlawful thoughts and behavior.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Guess who made that one up?


Some con trying to convince people that being moral was equal to stupid


I was idealistic too


But I stuck to reality and facts over fantasy


Which is why I remained a liberal all my life

Evince, if you are as smart as you think you are then you know that idealism is good but it must be tempered by reason. Young people are idealistic. With education and experience, they learn to what is rational and what is not.

No doubt you've been around long enough to know younger people who are idealistic. No problem for the young. In fact, it's often a good thing to "shoot for the stars".

Likewise you've known who are in their 30s who are as idealistic as teenagers. Can you honestly say that's a good thing for them? Sure, it depends upon what they are seeking. It's one thing to say "I'd like to complete my masters or doctorates". It's another for a 30something who doesn't even know how to fly or have a background in science to say "I want to be on the first Mars mission".

Just like there's such a thing as "too idealistic", the same can be said for being "too conservative". The latter applies when it's used to subjugate people, to stop people from doing something which in nobody else's business. It applies when it seeks to rob or harm the innocent out of greed.

Both the idealistic young and the conservative elderly serve a purpose in human society. It's good to understand why they necessary in human society, when one is too little or the other is too much.

 

[Geeko Sportivo]

You can take your commie ass to Cuba and stay there if you want!

WOW! I knew it wouldn't take long for a Trumptard to show his ass in this thread!

But dude, I gotta hand it to you, you reared your ugly head like a TYPICAL TRUMP SUPPORTING HATERIOT!

You know "HATERIOT"- short for HATERS that RIOT when they can't win an election- so they just take it by loading up and storming the capitol building and declaring Donald Trump the winner by force?

 

[evince]

Evince, if you are as smart as you think you are then you know that idealism is good but it must be tempered by reason. Young people are idealistic. With education and experience, they learn to what is rational and what is not.

No doubt you've been around long enough to know younger people who are idealistic. No problem for the young. In fact, it's often a good thing to "shoot for the stars".

Likewise you've known who are in their 30s who are as idealistic as teenagers. Can you honestly say that's a good thing for them? Sure, it depends upon what they are seeking. It's one thing to say "I'd like to complete my masters or doctorates". It's another for a 30something who doesn't even know how to fly or have a background in science to say "I want to be on the first Mars mission".

Just like there's such a thing as "too idealistic", the same can be said for being "too conservative". The latter applies when it's used to subjugate people, to stop people from doing something which in nobody else's business. It applies when it seeks to rob or harm the innocent out of greed.

Both the idealistic young and the conservative elderly serve a purpose in human society. It's good to understand why they necessary in human society, when one is too little or the other is too much.

I learned very early that life and people were imperfect

As a little girl in single digits

I was always observant because of it

Luckily for me I was a mountain of natural born optimism


I always had hope I would find a more positive path


It is in fact what led me to a deep belief in trusting determinable facts to find out how to get on that path


Most people are mostly good

Just observe them


A few people are like saints

And a very few are complete rat bastards


I moved all the time as a child and was able to observe more humans than most children


Always being the new kid can teach you about people

Patterns emerge


If you pay attention you can clearly see those patterns


Being idealistic is a gift


Embracing facts and studying life while being optimistic is a winners path


I never sought fame and massive wealth


I sought happiness and a secure future


Much better than excessive wealth and fame


Fame is a curse

Wealth

Well I would have taken it if it came my way


I was happy with financially secure for life

I was never that much driven by ambition

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I learned very early that life and people were imperfect...

...I moved all the time as a child and was able to observe more humans than most children
Always being the new kid can teach you about people...

...I never sought fame and massive wealth
I sought happiness and a secure future...

...I was never that much driven by ambition

Good. Then you understand the benefits of realism versus the idealism.

Same here. I was a military brat; 11 different schools and 18 different homes before I graduated from HS. You? Agreed such a lifestyle can be very educational about people. I continued this lifestyle as an adult and it included living in or frequently visiting foreign countries. Agreed most people are good.

Agreed on fame and wealth. Fame as in being a celebrity that is. I always did seek to earn the respect of my peers, but be a respected member of the team.

Isn't ambition a subset of idealism?

 

[CASPER]

At present the US is being governed by extreme, radical neo-Marxists/Postmodernists. The call themselves the "progressive" faction of the Democrat Party. For simplicities sake lets just call the racial modern day socialists. There has never, ever, since Karl Marx wrote the "Communist Manifesto" in 1848, been a successful (Marxist) socialist society. Not only did the various attempts to establish one fail, they failed DISASTEROUSLY because the philosophy of socialism is fatally flawed. It CONTRADICTS human nature. It is also economically flawed and simply does not work. I hope that the hard left of the Democrat party stays in control of Biden's administration, because if they do, they will destroy it completely in next to no time at all. They have made a really good start already by forcing Biden to sign EOs allowing Critical Theory back into federal agencies and public schools, by throwing away America's energy independence, by advancing the development of bat-shit crazy racial, economic and social EQUITY policies, by pandering to BLM Inc's BREATHE Act and the stupidity goes on and on. I mean, this is "Cloud Cuckoo Land", lunatic asylum stuff , brother. It's all going to go "BANG" big time; and I just can't wait, because it's going to be LOL hilarious !


Dachshund

While I do agree that the Dems have their own issues, but disagree that the hard left is running the show, they may have an agenda wish list but most of it will never pass. That is something to watch and see how it goes down the road. No Marxists are running anything in this country, don't be so dramatic.

The Repubs are a different story, and the split is already visible and both Republicans and Trumplings have both talked seriously about either taking over the GOP or splitting away since the two cannot coexist, that is happen Now, not down the road. Any Party going through a power struggle/split will be hurt in the elections and will be hard pressed to win or hold high level seats, so for the GOP the sooner they resolve their issue the better for them.

In the end, when that will be is to be determined, my guess is we will end up with four Parties and not the the big two. Yes we have other Parties already, but none have been able to attract enough of a voter base to really be a player. Personally I like the idea of more Parties, it tends to keep any one ideology or politician from dominated the government.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

While I do agree that the Dems have their own issues, but disagree that the hard left is running the show, they may have an agenda wish list but most of it will never pass. That is something to watch and see how it goes down the road. No Marxists are running anything in this country, don't be so dramatic.

The Repubs are a different story, and the split is already visible and both Republicans and Trumplings have both talked seriously about either taking over the GOP or splitting away since the two cannot coexist, that is happen Now, not down the road. Any Party going through a power struggle/split will be hurt in the elections and will be hard pressed to win or hold high level seats, so for the GOP the sooner they resolve their issue the better for them.

In the end, when that will be is to be determined, my guess is we will end up with four Parties and not the the big two. Yes we have other Parties already, but none have been able to attract enough of a voter base to really be a player. Personally I like the idea of more Parties, it tends to keep any one ideology or politician from dominated the government.

Well said and agreed except for the "four Parties". I can't see how that will happen without election reform. Too much money being poured into elections to allow much variance.

 

[evince]

Good. Then you understand the benefits of realism versus the idealism.

Same here. I was a military brat; 11 different schools and 18 different homes before I graduated from HS. You? Agreed such a lifestyle can be very educational about people. I continued this lifestyle as an adult and it included living in or frequently visiting foreign countries. Agreed most people are good.

Agreed on fame and wealth. Fame as in being a celebrity that is. I always did seek to earn the respect of my peers, but be a respected member of the team.

Isn't ambition a subset of idealism?

Oh when I left home I stayed in the same house for years

It felt awesome to settle in

Rented a great big old Victorian house near my college

Rented out the rooms and made it real cheap for myself

Only lived somewhere else for a year before I bought my first house

Then kept that house when I bought a new house

Since then have lived in one and rented the other

I’m back in my first because I love the location and don’t need a bigger one anyway


I owe very little on both


My ambitions have always been limited to happiness and security

I never craved expensive stuff

I was raised poor

Because of that those things often seemed to control people with money and made them screw up and never seemed to really make them happy

I like my cars to have great function and safety and look like something no one would bother to steal

Ones I could strap a piece of furniture on and never once think (but what about my paint job... what if I dent it) about it


Impressing the neighbors was never my gig


Securing my future and being happy



A garden

As many pets as I can have while not chasing my hubby away

A comfortable functioning home


And some sweet SoCal weather


Heaven


That was my ambition


And my results

 

[Dutch Uncle]

...Heaven

That was my ambition

And my results

It's good achieve satisfactory results. Agreed on all except the local.

I did the SoCal thing in the early 80s for five years and couldn't wait to leave.

All small pets or are there some that need to be corralled? All small here; two dogs, one cat, two parakeets.

 

[evince]

While I do agree that the Dems have their own issues, but disagree that the hard left is running the show, they may have an agenda wish list but most of it will never pass. That is something to watch and see how it goes down the road. No Marxists are running anything in this country, don't be so dramatic.

The Repubs are a different story, and the split is already visible and both Republicans and Trumplings have both talked seriously about either taking over the GOP or splitting away since the two cannot coexist, that is happen Now, not down the road. Any Party going through a power struggle/split will be hurt in the elections and will be hard pressed to win or hold high level seats, so for the GOP the sooner they resolve their issue the better for them.

In the end, when that will be is to be determined, my guess is we will end up with four Parties and not the the big two. Yes we have other Parties already, but none have been able to attract enough of a voter base to really be a player. Personally I like the idea of more Parties, it tends to keep any one ideology or politician from dominated the government.

I beg to differ

The republicans will be a broken party that can no longer win

A new right leaning party will emerge

Neither will win many elections

The trump faction will fade

These two party’s will begin to shift around

one of them beginning to grow over the other


Pulling in independents and members of the other side


It won’t be the trump side who prevails

Lies don’t work

Even corporations want stability

Lie filled shit cakes for a party don’t find success


It will at some point settle back into a two majority party nation


We had it for so long because it’s a natural state in a democracy


Too many party’s means 25- 35 percent of the people being in control

That’s not democracy

 

[evince]

It's good achieve satisfactory results. Agreed on all except the local.

I did the SoCal thing in the early 80s for five years and couldn't wait to leave.

All small pets or are there some that need to be corralled? All small here; two dogs, one cat, two parakeets.

Big dogs

Right now I have three

I have had cats before too

But I’m mostly a dog person


I love all animals

The bigger ones like horses and cows are too much work

Big dogs always have a hard time getting homes

So I always end up bringing home the big ones

 

[CASPER]

Well said and agreed except for the "four Parties". I can't see how that will happen without election reform. Too much money being poured into elections to allow much variance.

Well to be honest, that is only one possible scenario, no one knows how it will really shake out in the end we could end up with more, or three, or just the two with a dominant faction in each. Right now I do not see the GOP surviving as we have always known it, but stranger things have happened. Heck I used to believe the GOP, if nothing else, stood for at least Some ideals, some that I agreed with, I had that thought shattered over the last four years, they literally sold their souls to a conman. Meh...

 

[CASPER]

I beg to differ

The republicans will be a broken party that can no longer win

A new right leaning party will emerge

Neither will win many elections

The trump faction will fade

These two party’s will begin to shift around

one of them beginning to grow over the other


Pulling in independents and members of the other side


It won’t be the trump side who prevails

Lies don’t work

Even corporations want stability

Lie filled shit cakes for a party don’t find success


It will at some point settle back into a two majority party nation


We had it for so long because it’s a natural state in a democracy


Too many party’s means 25- 35 percent of the people being in control

That’s not democracy

Possibly, we are in the opening stages so where it goes is far too early for me to predict with any real accuracy.

I hope you are right, By The Way.

All my dogs and cats came to me, they just showed up and you know what happens when you feed them, 3 dogs (all brothers, German Shep mix) and three cats in the house as kitten strays, 7 more cats in my shop kittens now adults from two stray females, and 2 permanent cats outside cats with at least 5-6 visitors, yes the cost is that most would not believe, but the reward is Priceless.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Well to be honest, that is only one possible scenario, no one knows how it will really shake out in the end we could end up with more, or three, or just the two with a dominant faction in each. Right now I do not see the GOP surviving as we have always known it, but stranger things have happened. Heck I used to believe the GOP, if nothing else, stood for at least Some ideals, some that I agreed with, I had that thought shattered over the last four years, they literally sold their souls to a conman. Meh...

I look at the history of the Whigs and the rise of the Republican party as a clue to the future of the next conservative party.

Despite all the applauding at the implosion of the Republican party by far Left JPP members, there'll always a conservative party just like there will be a liberal party. It's a dichotomy that has existed for 230+ years in the US and longer in England.

 

[CASPER]

I look at the history of the Whigs and the rise of the Republican party as a clue to the future of the next conservative party.

Despite all the applauding at the implosion of the Republican party by far Left JPP members, there'll always a conservative party just like there will be a liberal party. It's a dichotomy that has existed for 230+ years in the US and longer in England.

Possible.

I have no desire to see the American Conservative Party cease to exist, I simply want them to do 2 things, find their compass again and move on from trump. If they they they do those two things I will not have a problem supporting them again, if they don't and I hope they reap their reward of mediocrity.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Possible.

I have no desire to see the American Conservative Party cease to exist, I simply want them to do 2 things, find their compass again and move on from trump. If they they they do those two things I will not have a problem supporting them again, if they don't and I hope they reap their reward of mediocrity.

No worries since there is no such thing as "the American Conservative Party". It's just the current American conservative party. You can certainly see the current American liberal party isn't so liberal. Certainly nothing Thomas Jefferson would support.

Shit happens, times change. The Republican party is destroying itself. Ronald Reagan would be considered a RINO by the nutjobs in CPAC today.

 

[CASPER]

No worries since there is no such thing as "the American Conservative Party". It's just the current American conservative party. You can certainly see the current American liberal party isn't so liberal. Certainly nothing Thomas Jefferson would support.

Shit happens, times change. The Republican party is destroying itself. Ronald Reagan would be considered a RINO by the nutjobs in CPAC today.

OK, the Ideal of one, yes they have not truly existed, well, ever, but the ideals they were supposed to stand for are still there and one either supports that or the alternative, at least partially, politics is a strange bitch, you either hate her, love her, or both.......

Yeup, nothing but the truth.

 

[Diesel]

Do

Again you claim your own ideas can’t Work when applied to humans



Every failed economic idea will fail when applied to actual human interaction


Dude

Have you ever heard the quote


“Socialism is the best government on paper”


Do you understand the meaning of that quote?

Libertarianism is not "my idea". It's a political philosophy. I have two degrees in political science. You . . . well, enough said.

As for your "quote", who said it? I cannot wait to see your answer to this.