Obama Apology Tour

[WinterBorn]

You have clearly made a caricature by omitting this: "His life, his writings, prove that he was a Christian."

You mean the life in which he avoided communion and left church early and had someone go back and get Martha?

His writings that make only the vaguest mention of god or providence that could be interpreted as deism too?

 

[WinterBorn]

Obviously Washington didn't have the same views on Christianity as his minister. *shrug*

Nor the same views as the other minister quoted previously. Nor the same views as many in his church including his wife.

*shrug*

 

[DamnYankee]

You mean the life in which he avoided communion and left church early and had someone go back and get Martha?

His writings that make only the vaguest mention of god or providence that could be interpreted as deism too?

Again, he obviously had a different view of Christianity than his minister. Many learned men in the 18th century did, as many do now, including myself. I have many differences of opinion with my Catholic church.

Again, his granddaughter was around him for many years, and if that was her interpretation, she would have then wrote: "His life, his writings, prove that he was a Deist." *shug*

 

[WinterBorn]

Again, he obviously had a different view of Christianity than his minister. Many learned men in the 18th century did, as many do now, including myself. I have many differences of opinion with my Catholic church.

Again, his granddaughter was around him for many years, and if that was her interpretation, she would have then wrote: "His life, his writings, prove that he was a Deist." *shug*

Many men who were friends with him for years called him a deist. Somehow you place no stock in their words but place absolute faith in her statement that he must have been a christian.

And the point of this entire debate was whether or not the nation was founded as a christian nation. Obviously in GW kept his faith so private he would not have wanted the nation to be based on christianity as the only religion.

And Jefferson certainly would not have helped found a christian nation.

 

[DamnYankee]

Many men who were friends with him for years called him a deist. ...

Who, some deists? *shrug*

 

[WinterBorn]

Who, some deists? *shrug*

So if the people who claimed he was a deist are deists themselves it makes them less credible?

 

[charver]

So if the people who claimed he was a deist are deists themselves it makes them less credible?

Less credible than christians who called him christian, obviously.

 

[Canceled2]

Many men who were friends with him for years called him a deist. Somehow you place no stock in their words but place absolute faith in her statement that he must have been a christian.

And the point of this entire debate was whether or not the nation was founded as a christian nation. Obviously in GW kept his faith so private he would not have wanted the nation to be based on christianity as the only religion.

And Jefferson certainly would not have helped found a christian nation.

Your logic is ridiculous. Many friends called him a Deist? Really who? His wife and daughter and home church pastor all attested to his faith. They and not you are better equipped with knowledge to have done so. Washington hated public displays of faith where all eyes watched and he stated as much.

As to the misstated idea of being a Christian nation you skew the principled idea of what that means, which is, that the impetuous for how our perfect union, ideas of liberty including being a secular as opposed to a church state government, and the rationale for our laws were all born from the faith of these men. That faith was predominately Christian.

 

[DamnYankee]

So if the people who claimed he was a deist are deists themselves it makes them less credible?

Yes, obviously. *shrug*

 

[Mott the Hoople]

I am well aware that you liberals slap each other on the back. The fact is, however, that I provided scientific evidence while you had nothing in return. *shrug*

Again, you're just trying to get last word. I provide irrefutable evidence and you provided anectdotal evidence.

 

[WinterBorn]

Yes, obviously. *shrug*

Then the words of christians that he was a christian are also obviously less credible. *shrug*

 

[DamnYankee]

Again, you're just trying to get last word. I provide irrefutable evidence and you provided anectdotal evidence.

I provided facts that backed up a theory: science. You provided nothing of the sort: zero.

 

[DamnYankee]

Then the words of christians that he was a christian are also obviously less credible. *shrug*

Your logic escapes me, but its not the first time. *shrug*

 

[WinterBorn]

Your logic is ridiculous. Many friends called him a Deist? Really who? His wife and daughter and home church pastor all attested to his faith. They and not you are better equipped with knowledge to have done so. Washington hated public displays of faith where all eyes watched and he stated as much.

As to the misstated idea of being a Christian nation you skew the principled idea of what that means, which is, that the impetuous for how our perfect union, ideas of liberty including being a secular as opposed to a church state government, and the rationale for our laws were all born from the faith of these men. That faith was predominately Christian.

""Sir, Washington was a Deist."
-- The Reverend Doctor James Abercrombie, rector of the church Washington had attended with his wife, to The Reverend Bird Wilson, an Episcopal minister in Albany, New York, upon Wilson's having inquired of Abercrombie regarding Washington's religious beliefs, quoted from John E Remsberg, Six Historic Americans"

So his minister also believed he was a deist.





If I have skewed the idea of what it means to have this nation founded as a christian nation it is because of the statements made here and in other places throughout our history as to the effect of having christianity as the founding principles of this country.

The fact that some of the founders were christian really isn't the point. They made sure they founded a nation that was equally deist as christian. One that was equally pagan, hindu, buddhist, jewish, muslim and any other faith. And christianity is not known for its tolerance of other religions.

 

[WinterBorn]

Your logic escapes me, but its not the first time. *shrug*

Its not hard to follow. You claim that the words of deists claiming Washington was a deist are less credible. But you expect everyone to find words of christians claiming Washington was a christian to be credible. I only pointed out the hypocrisy in that.

 

[DamnYankee]

Its not hard to follow. You claim that the words of deists claiming Washington was a deist are less credible. But you expect everyone to find words of christians claiming Washington was a christian to be credible. I only pointed out the hypocrisy in that.

Christians see lying a sin punishable by God, deists do not. *shrug*

 

[WinterBorn]

Christians see lying a sin punishable by God, deists do not. *shrug*

So you claim that christians do not lie?

So you expect everyone to accept the comments of christians as credible and anyone else as less credible?

 

[DamnYankee]

So you claim that christians do not lie?

So you expect everyone to accept the comments of christians as credible and anyone else as less credible?

No I claim that a devout Christian is inherently more credible than a deist. Nice straw man though. *shrug*

 

[WinterBorn]

No I claim that a devout Christian is inherently more credible than a deist. Nice straw man though. *shrug*

Devout christianity is more credible? Sorry I have known too many devout christians to believe that statement.

In order for your statement to hold true you must assume only certain people were devout and honorable. And you must assume that people of another faith are by definition more prone to lying.

None of that is evident in the facts we know about the founding fathers that are known to be deists (including Washington, Jefferson, and Thomas Paine).


And none of what you claim speaks to any indication that this nation was founded as a christian nation.

 

[DamnYankee]

Devout christianity is more credible? Sorry I have known too many devout christians to believe that statement.

In order for your statement to hold true you must assume only certain people were devout and honorable. And you must assume that people of another faith are by definition more prone to lying.

None of that is evident in the facts we know about the founding fathers that are known to be deists (including Washington, Jefferson, and Thomas Paine).


And none of what you claim speaks to any indication that this nation was founded as a christian nation.

Again, deism assumes that whatever you do in life god doesn't care. It's only human nature that they'd be more apt to sin. *shrug*