Ed Schultz Flips Out Over Rush - Jokes About Rush's Hearing Problem

That was Rush's claim, and later MJ Fox did say he was over medicated during that ad.

I think that it isn't that much of an "egregious" crime to talk about a political ad and the process that made it. Pretending that it was an attack on the disease is just a straw man.

Rush is in the public eye and gets constant "attacks". Even constant myth-slinging like "His drug use caused his deafness." (I posted a link earlier to dispel that myth.) And, as I said before, his 60 Million Dollar contract tends to make me less than sympathetic. If he's not big enough to handle these "attacks" himself then he's way overpaid.

MJ Fox put himself out there onto the political stage, expecting a pass because you have a disease is weak.


Limbaugh is a SOS....period. His shot a Fox was in ERROR, it was WRONG. Period. That Fox is in the public eye does make him a target....that Limbaugh and those that excuse him got nailed for trying to lie about his appearance is just TFB.
 
"if I didn't take medication I wouldn't be able to speak"

duh

you will NEVER admit that you flat out lied by saying that he overmedicated so his tremors would garner sympathy.

pathetic liar.

the man clearly states that he was taking the medication in order to do the commercial coherently. How our resident neocon numbskulls interpret this as taking medication to worsen his condition is a fascinating study in denial and delusion on their part. I just call them insipidly stubborn neocon parrots.
 
I knew you would be incapable of discussion and debate and would rely on posting and reposting spam... and then lying about it.

please quote those sentences from Fox's statement that indicate that he took medication for the purpose of heightening the appearance of his disease or for garnering sympathy or for advancing his agenda.

moron.


Care to quote where Fox made a statement that indicates the he didn't take his medication for the purpose of heightening the appearance of his disease or for garnering sympathy or for advancing his agenda.
 
Care to quote where Fox made a statement that indicates the he didn't take his medication for the purpose of heightening the appearance of his disease or for garnering sympathy or for advancing his agenda.

Ge won't because it is clear Mr Fox over medicated himself so he would come across as another "victim" of Republican policies
 
This is why the left hates Rush so much - he speaks out and tells the truth about the left and their allies in the liberal media

http://www.eyeblast.tv/public/checker.aspx?v=Gduzuzuz4z

Translation: me hack. Me big hack.

I always love the logic: if someone is hated, it must be because they're brilliant and truthful!

Ergo, the realm of brilliance and truthfulness simply MUST include Michael Moore, Bill Clinton, Rosie O'Donnell, Keith Olbermann, Sean Penn, et al.
 
Translation: me hack. Me big hack.

I always love the logic: if someone is hated, it must be because they're brilliant and truthful!

Ergo, the realm of brilliance and truthfulness simply MUST include Michael Moore, Bill Clinton, Rosie O'Donnell, Keith Olbermann, Sean Penn, et al.

Not exactly. But there are different reasons for being hated.
 
Ge won't because it is clear Mr Fox over medicated himself so he would come across as another "victim" of Republican policies

You two idiots essentially want to know if there's a quote from Fox where he says, "I didn't do it", in those or similar words. Unfortunately, it seems your ability to comprehend what you read beyond a 5th grade level is on par with Freedumb (which is why he's on IA). Here, read it AGAIN and then have an adult explain it to you.

Just Plain Politics! - View Single Post - Ed Schultz Flips Out Over Rush - Jokes About Rush's Hearing Problem
 
Translation: me hack. Me big hack.

I always love the logic: if someone is hated, it must be because they're brilliant and truthful!

Ergo, the realm of brilliance and truthfulness simply MUST include Michael Moore, Bill Clinton, Rosie O'Donnell, Keith Olbermann, Sean Penn, et al.

The liberal media is not reporting on Obama - they are waving the pom poms for him and his policies on a daily basis

There are no hard questions. There are no fact checking. There are no inguiries into his lies, false numbers, and broken promisies

There is only favorable coverage. excuses made for him, and when necessary - the media ignores anything that goes agaisnt their agenda, which is pushing Obama's agenda
 
Sgt Schultz has stepped in it again. Is it any wonder his ratings are tanking - like Obama's approval numbers?



Ed Schultz Decries 'Age of Overzealous Law Enforcement,' Guest Calls Gates 'Rosa Parks' of Profiling
By Tim Graham (Bio * Archive)
July 24, 2009 - 14:10 ET

On Thursday night’s edition of The Ed Show on MSNBC, host Ed Schultz covered the Henry Louis Gates arrest controversy not by just insulting cops in Cambridge, Massachusetts, but police all across America: "I think we live in an age where we have a lot of overzealous law enforcement, I really do. Now if the law enforcement officials know the community, they should have known that this guy lived there."

Leftist professor Michael Eric Dyson was a Schultz guest. (He also appeared Thursday morning on Today "balanced" with radio host Michael Smerconish, who insisted on reminding the audience that he voted for Obama.) On MSNBC, Dyson called Gates "the Rosa Parks of racial profiling." Even if you believe racial profiling is a huge problem, isn’t Gates a little late in our history to be the Rosa Parks? Wouldn’t he nominate Rodney King or someone from a few decades back? Here’s what Dyson said:

I think it was great of him, Ed, to use his bully pulpit to shine a spotlight on this essential and critical social matter that many people are not familiar with and not aware of, because it doesn’t affect them. The fact that it affected the most prominent and powerful scholar in the history of America for African-American studies shows that he`s, if you will, the Rosa Parks of racial profiling.

Here’s a guy who doesn’t stir up trouble. He doesn’t go around fomenting controversy. He’s very balanced. He’s as at ease, you know, in white America as he is in black America. Yet he was subjected to arbitrary forms of police, in his estimation and what we may think -- police profiling. It was unfortunate, but it also has helped us understand and grapple with an issue that affects millions of other African-American and Latino men.


The saddest thing of both of Dyson's appearances is no one brought up the case of Mumia Abu-Jamal, convicted of shooting police officer Daniel Faulkner. How is Henry Louis Gates victimized in any way like Faulkner was? But Dyson is a great advocate for getting Abu-Jamal out of prison. Ten years ago, a correspondent for the Revolutionary Communist Party quoted Dyson on his sympathy for the cop-killer at a forum organized by Academics for Mumia Abu-Jamal:

So for me, then, the Mumia Abu-Jamal case is about the person who is able to articulate the interests of minority people not only in terms of color, but in terms of ideology. Because we know what the real deal here is also about. It is about the repression of left-wing, progressive, insightful cultural criticism and political and moral critique aimed at the dominant hegemonic processes of American capitalism and the American state as evidenced in its racist, imperialist and now we might add homophobic and certainly its patriarchal practices.

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tim-gr...zealous-law-enforcement-guest-calls-gates-ros
 
Sgt Schultz has stepped in it again. Is it any wonder his ratings are tanking - like Obama's approval numbers?



Ed Schultz Decries 'Age of Overzealous Law Enforcement,' Guest Calls Gates 'Rosa Parks' of Profiling
By Tim Graham (Bio * Archive)
July 24, 2009 - 14:10 ET

On Thursday night’s edition of The Ed Show on MSNBC, host Ed Schultz covered the Henry Louis Gates arrest controversy not by just insulting cops in Cambridge, Massachusetts, but police all across America: "I think we live in an age where we have a lot of overzealous law enforcement, I really do. Now if the law enforcement officials know the community, they should have known that this guy lived there."

Leftist professor Michael Eric Dyson was a Schultz guest. (He also appeared Thursday morning on Today "balanced" with radio host Michael Smerconish, who insisted on reminding the audience that he voted for Obama.) On MSNBC, Dyson called Gates "the Rosa Parks of racial profiling." Even if you believe racial profiling is a huge problem, isn’t Gates a little late in our history to be the Rosa Parks? Wouldn’t he nominate Rodney King or someone from a few decades back? Here’s what Dyson said:

I think it was great of him, Ed, to use his bully pulpit to shine a spotlight on this essential and critical social matter that many people are not familiar with and not aware of, because it doesn’t affect them. The fact that it affected the most prominent and powerful scholar in the history of America for African-American studies shows that he`s, if you will, the Rosa Parks of racial profiling.

Here’s a guy who doesn’t stir up trouble. He doesn’t go around fomenting controversy. He’s very balanced. He’s as at ease, you know, in white America as he is in black America. Yet he was subjected to arbitrary forms of police, in his estimation and what we may think -- police profiling. It was unfortunate, but it also has helped us understand and grapple with an issue that affects millions of other African-American and Latino men.


The saddest thing of both of Dyson's appearances is no one brought up the case of Mumia Abu-Jamal, convicted of shooting police officer Daniel Faulkner. How is Henry Louis Gates victimized in any way like Faulkner was? But Dyson is a great advocate for getting Abu-Jamal out of prison. Ten years ago, a correspondent for the Revolutionary Communist Party quoted Dyson on his sympathy for the cop-killer at a forum organized by Academics for Mumia Abu-Jamal:

So for me, then, the Mumia Abu-Jamal case is about the person who is able to articulate the interests of minority people not only in terms of color, but in terms of ideology. Because we know what the real deal here is also about. It is about the repression of left-wing, progressive, insightful cultural criticism and political and moral critique aimed at the dominant hegemonic processes of American capitalism and the American state as evidenced in its racist, imperialist and now we might add homophobic and certainly its patriarchal practices.

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tim-gr...zealous-law-enforcement-guest-calls-gates-ros

So some right wing blogger with an axe to grind basically just throws sour grapes at Schultz and his guest...he does this by trying to fuse the Abu-Jamal case to Gates and and the hyperbole of Schultz' guest Dyson.

This is a favorite tactic of neocons who can't really defend their beliefs and assertions.....the infamous "what if" scenario treated as bonafide fact.
The Jamal case is essentially a local police force and judge preventing a new trial of a man where the evidence in question is not conclusive. The cops contend Jamal interfered in the arrest of a relative, and after an altercation shot Faulkner. Jamal's defense contends initial ballistics proved it wasn't his gun, and that the cops lied and coerced/produced witnesses to false testimony. For all we know, Abul-Jamal is guilty...but since ALL the evidence of the trial has NOT been taken into account, we'll never know for sure.

This has NOTHING to do with Gates. Bottom line: no cop worth his salt waits until AFTER the suspect has entered his house and provided proof of his identification and residency to coax the suspect back out the house to arrest him on "public disturbance" charges. That story stinks...so much so that the charges were immediately dropped and Gates released within 24 hours.

Red and his blogger need to get a perspective on their comparisons....they should be in the same category of crime and relevant to what the speakers of the article are actually saying.
 
So some right wing blogger with an axe to grind basically just throws sour grapes at Schultz and his guest...he does this by trying to fuse the Abu-Jamal case to Gates and and the hyperbole of Schultz' guest Dyson.

This is a favorite tactic of neocons who can't really defend their beliefs and assertions.....the infamous "what if" scenario treated as bonafide fact.
The Jamal case is essentially a local police force and judge preventing a new trial of a man where the evidence in question is not conclusive. The cops contend Jamal interfered in the arrest of a relative, and after an altercation shot Faulkner. Jamal's defense contends initial ballistics proved it wasn't his gun, and that the cops lied and coerced/produced witnesses to false testimony. For all we know, Abul-Jamal is guilty...but since ALL the evidence of the trial has NOT been taken into account, we'll never know for sure.

This has NOTHING to do with Gates. Bottom line: no cop worth his salt waits until AFTER the suspect has entered his house and provided proof of his identification and residency to coax the suspect back out the house to arrest him on "public disturbance" charges. That story stinks...so much so that the charges were immediately dropped and Gates released within 24 hours.

Red and his blogger need to get a perspective on their comparisons....they should be in the same category of crime and relevant to what the speakers of the article are actually saying.

Yea, the evidence in the Jamal was so "inconclusive" The guy was seen standing over a dead cop with the murder weapon in his hand. He admitted his guilt to a reporter, then denied he made it

Since Jamal is black and the cop was white - Jamal must be innocent to the left

As far as Gates, the records show Gates was indeed not obeying lawful orders from a policeman. The Police were responding to a call from a neighbor and Gates would not produce an ID to prove he was the owner of the home

He was warnwed several times as he foloowed the cop outside to stop yelling - he was warned he becoming a disturbance. He continued, and was arrested

Like Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, Dyson, and Rev Wright - he was being a race baioter and was dtermined to create an issue

In the world of liberals only whites are racists. Blacks are genetically incapable of being racists

Unless they are black conservatives. Then they are attacked by the non racist liberals as Uncle Toms, sellouts, and traitiors to their race
 
Even Juan Williams gets it, and stood firm despite Chirs Cuomo's attempts for him to jump on the "cop is a racist" bandwagon


Juan Williams: Obama 'Has Gone Way, Way Too Far' in Gates Arrest
By Matthew Balan (Bio * Archive)
July 24, 2009 - 15:23 ET

NPR’s Juan Williams criticized President Obama’s “the police acted stupidly” response to the arrest of Henry Louis Gates during a segment on Friday’s Good Morning America: “The president has gone way, way too far without having looked at the police report, without knowing the facts of the case.” He later recommended that the president “walk it back and say, you know what- I spoke out of turn here.”

Anchor Chris Cuomo sought Williams’s take on the Democrat’s now infamous remarks on the detainment of the Harvard professor just after the beginning of the 7 am hour. He first brought up a standard mainstream media race question: “Do you think the police would have acted the same way, if Gates had been a white man?” The NPR analyst replied that he wasn’t sure, and gave an anecdote of his experience growing up in Brooklyn: “I don’t know the Cambridge police intimately....I grew up in Brooklyn during the ‘60s, and had...sort of a tense relationship with police- especially white police- as a young, black kid.”

Williams continued by giving his first critical analysis of the president’s answer: “My concern about the president speaking out here is, I’m not sure he saw the police report, where you can read that Gates was- had become rather aggressive with the cop...The cop was responding to a report of a break-in at the house, and by Gates’ own account, he tried to force his way into his own house, and that house had been broken into previously.”

The ABC anchor replied to this answer by asking, “So, bottom line...you don’t see this- this doesn’t scream at you as a case of racial profiling?” Williams answered, “Not at all- it’s not a case of racial profiling,” and related that he has a “deferential” attitude towards the police and has tried to pass this on to his own children.

Cuomo went back to the NPR’s analyst’s earlier remark about his “concern about the president speaking out” in the Gates arrest controversy in his last question: “Let me ask you this- what is the president’s right move in this situation? After getting out in front of it, did he get out too far? What should he do now?”

Williams answered, “He got out way too far....the president has gone way, way too far without having looked at the police report, without knowing the facts of the case. And so, I think what he now has to do is walk it back and say, you know what- I spoke out of turn here. Skip Gates- Professor Henry Louis Gates is a friend of mine, and I was reacting to- in support of a friend, and aware of larger racial issues in the society. But it really doesn’t specifically apply to this case, which is not about racial profiling.”

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/matthe...s-obama-has-gone-way-way-too-far-gates-arrest
 
Even Juan Williams gets it, and stood firm despite Chirs Cuomo's attempts for him to jump on the "cop is a racist" bandwagon


Juan Williams: Obama 'Has Gone Way, Way Too Far' in Gates Arrest
By Matthew Balan (Bio * Archive)
July 24, 2009 - 15:23 ET

NPR’s Juan Williams criticized President Obama’s “the police acted stupidly” response to the arrest of Henry Louis Gates during a segment on Friday’s Good Morning America: “The president has gone way, way too far without having looked at the police report, without knowing the facts of the case.” He later recommended that the president “walk it back and say, you know what- I spoke out of turn here.”

Anchor Chris Cuomo sought Williams’s take on the Democrat’s now infamous remarks on the detainment of the Harvard professor just after the beginning of the 7 am hour. He first brought up a standard mainstream media race question: “Do you think the police would have acted the same way, if Gates had been a white man?” The NPR analyst replied that he wasn’t sure, and gave an anecdote of his experience growing up in Brooklyn: “I don’t know the Cambridge police intimately....I grew up in Brooklyn during the ‘60s, and had...sort of a tense relationship with police- especially white police- as a young, black kid.”

Williams continued by giving his first critical analysis of the president’s answer: “My concern about the president speaking out here is, I’m not sure he saw the police report, where you can read that Gates was- had become rather aggressive with the cop...The cop was responding to a report of a break-in at the house, and by Gates’ own account, he tried to force his way into his own house, and that house had been broken into previously.”

The ABC anchor replied to this answer by asking, “So, bottom line...you don’t see this- this doesn’t scream at you as a case of racial profiling?” Williams answered, “Not at all- it’s not a case of racial profiling,” and related that he has a “deferential” attitude towards the police and has tried to pass this on to his own children.

Cuomo went back to the NPR’s analyst’s earlier remark about his “concern about the president speaking out” in the Gates arrest controversy in his last question: “Let me ask you this- what is the president’s right move in this situation? After getting out in front of it, did he get out too far? What should he do now?”

Williams answered, “He got out way too far....the president has gone way, way too far without having looked at the police report, without knowing the facts of the case. And so, I think what he now has to do is walk it back and say, you know what- I spoke out of turn here. Skip Gates- Professor Henry Louis Gates is a friend of mine, and I was reacting to- in support of a friend, and aware of larger racial issues in the society. But it really doesn’t specifically apply to this case, which is not about racial profiling.”

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/matthe...s-obama-has-gone-way-way-too-far-gates-arrest

Mr. Williams will probably be arrested for assaulting the President.


Seeing as how he just bitch slapped the crap out of him.
 
Yea, the evidence in the Jamal was so "inconclusive" The guy was seen standing over a dead cop with the murder weapon in his hand. He admitted his guilt to a reporter, then denied he made it Oh puh-leeze, it's what said to a judge during the initial hearing that counts....the "witness" that the local cops produced was later proven not only unreliable, but not even at the seen of the crime. The initial ballistics test did not match to Jamal's gun.

Since Jamal is black and the cop was white - Jamal must be innocent to the left READ WHAT I WROTE, YOU IGNORANT BIGOT! I said that Jamal might well be guilty.....but given that you have a local judge who was/is totally biased in the procedings and blocking any chance of retrial, we'll never know...we being people objectively looking a the evidence and seeing that things just don't add up.

As far as Gates, the records show Gates was indeed not obeying lawful orders from a policeman. The Police were responding to a call from a neighbor and Gates would not produce an ID to prove he was the owner of the home

Sorry to burst your bubble, mastermind, but the COPS report doesn't add up....if indeed Gates was guilty of disorderly conduct and totally uncooperative, the cops would have arrested him....period! They wouldn't have gone into the home, identified him as the owner and resident therefore not guilty of B&E or ANY crime. Bottom line: Gates mouthed off, and the cop was going to make him realize that you don't do that to cops because you feel like it. Gates should have kept his cool, because in those situations the cops have the upper hand. But since the charges were imediately dropped, the cops (and you) are just bitter that you can't have your way. TFB, grow up and deal with it.

He was warnwed several times as he foloowed the cop outside to stop yelling - he was warned he becoming a disturbance. He continued, and was arrested

Bullshit! He didn't "follow" the cop outside, as the initial reports showed that the cop kept asking him out to clarify a few things...like why the cop wouldn't give Gates his full name and badge number. Gates initially said that he didn't invite the cop in when he went to get his ID, so once he proved his innocence, it doesn't make sense he should run outside to give the cops what they wanted...an excuse to arrest him.

Like Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, Dyson, and Rev Wright - he was being a race baioter and was dtermined to create an issue

Right....Gates comes home from abroad, then hatches a plot to "create an issue" by pretending to find his front door jammed, then have his driver stand on the front porch with luggage while he goes around back, knowing that his neighbors would call the cops. Then, when the cops show up, he gets uppity and plays the race card, refusing to let the cop in while he goes to get his ID....knowing that the cop won't wait at the door. While the cop enters the home anyway and confirms his identity and residency, Gates keeps pushing his buttons with such outrageous claims of uninvited intrusion into his home. As the cop leaves, Gates rushes out to raise more hell, knowing the cops will arrest him. Gates knows that his lofty status will ensure nationwide media coverage, and the "liberal" MSM will assuredly involve Obama by injecting the story into a press conference (Gates secretly faxed his past friendship status with Obama). Yes, it was a all a fantastic, Machievellian plot to achieve the goal of......what?:rolleyes:

In the world of liberals only whites are racists. Blacks are genetically incapable of being racists (this statement sponsored by the David Duke NAAWP).
Unless they are black conservatives. Then they are attacked by the non racist liberals as Uncle Toms, sellouts, and traitiors to their race

(this statement sponsored by the David Duke NAAWP).
 
Even Juan Williams gets it, and stood firm despite Chirs Cuomo's attempts for him to jump on the "cop is a racist" bandwagon


Juan Williams: Obama 'Has Gone Way, Way Too Far' in Gates Arrest
By Matthew Balan (Bio * Archive)
July 24, 2009 - 15:23 ET

NPR’s Juan Williams criticized President Obama’s “the police acted stupidly” response to the arrest of Henry Louis Gates during a segment on Friday’s Good Morning America: “The president has gone way, way too far without having looked at the police report, without knowing the facts of the case.” He later recommended that the president “walk it back and say, you know what- I spoke out of turn here.”

Anchor Chris Cuomo sought Williams’s take on the Democrat’s now infamous remarks on the detainment of the Harvard professor just after the beginning of the 7 am hour. He first brought up a standard mainstream media race question: “Do you think the police would have acted the same way, if Gates had been a white man?” The NPR analyst replied that he wasn’t sure, and gave an anecdote of his experience growing up in Brooklyn: “I don’t know the Cambridge police intimately....I grew up in Brooklyn during the ‘60s, and had...sort of a tense relationship with police- especially white police- as a young, black kid.”

Williams continued by giving his first critical analysis of the president’s answer: “My concern about the president speaking out here is, I’m not sure he saw the police report, where you can read that Gates was- had become rather aggressive with the cop...The cop was responding to a report of a break-in at the house, and by Gates’ own account, he tried to force his way into his own house, and that house had been broken into previously.”

The ABC anchor replied to this answer by asking, “So, bottom line...you don’t see this- this doesn’t scream at you as a case of racial profiling?” Williams answered, “Not at all- it’s not a case of racial profiling,” and related that he has a “deferential” attitude towards the police and has tried to pass this on to his own children.

Cuomo went back to the NPR’s analyst’s earlier remark about his “concern about the president speaking out” in the Gates arrest controversy in his last question: “Let me ask you this- what is the president’s right move in this situation? After getting out in front of it, did he get out too far? What should he do now?”

Williams answered, “He got out way too far....the president has gone way, way too far without having looked at the police report, without knowing the facts of the case. And so, I think what he now has to do is walk it back and say, you know what- I spoke out of turn here. Skip Gates- Professor Henry Louis Gates is a friend of mine, and I was reacting to- in support of a friend, and aware of larger racial issues in the society. But it really doesn’t specifically apply to this case, which is not about racial profiling.”

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/matthe...s-obama-has-gone-way-way-too-far-gates-arrest

Ron Williams is entitled to his opinion.....he's been the NPR push over on Fox News Sunday round table for years....sitting there while being lectured by the likes of William Kristol. Bottom line: NOTHING the President said was untrue...period. The police report doesn't add up...That's why the cops dropped the charges. Live with it, bunky.
 
More on how Gates was determined to create an issue by not obeying lawful orders


YouTube - Glenn Beck's "Black Stage Crew" Take On Guest About Arrest Of Harvard Professor

Yes, and the goal of this Machievellian plot? Did Obama make a statement or was he asked a question in a public forum? Did he say anything that was wrong, given that charges were dropped?

Puh-leeze, Glen Beck, a confirmed neocon asshole who preaches to willfully ignorant parrots like YOU. Bottom line: anyone that points out the BS in American society regarding it's congenital racism just pisses off dopes like you because, despite it NOT affecting your life directly, just the thought of "those people" being publically acknowledged as correct on any level just drives you crazy. TFB...go cry in your beer at the next sheet wearers meeting.
 
Bottom line is, being a linberal moonbat - nothing will make you admit Gates deserved what he got, He is a race baiter and from the moment the cop arrived he was out to create a race issue

The Police report is posted, and other cops on the scene back up what I have posted

So go ahead, and ignore the proof, and keep pushing your "America is a racist country" bullshit
 
Yes, and the goal of this Machievellian plot? Did Obama make a statement or was he asked a question in a public forum? Did he say anything that was wrong, given that charges were dropped?

Puh-leeze, Glen Beck, a confirmed neocon asshole who preaches to willfully ignorant parrots like YOU. Bottom line: anyone that points out the BS in American society regarding it's congenital racism just pisses off dopes like you because, despite it NOT affecting your life directly, just the thought of "those people" being publically acknowledged as correct on any level just drives you crazy. TFB...go cry in your beer at the next sheet wearers meeting.
Ad homs and ridicule- Typical Taichiliberal and "epic" debate failure. *shrug*
 
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