The Town Hall Mob

Damocles said:
*sigh*

Hence my regular caveats. While it fits within the normal conversation it shows that I support some portions of this while I am against other portions of it.

Just the other day I was reading some of the "best of the best" over at Tom's place where he let me read a few of his "best" death threat letters. It's wrong whoever does that, but that doesn't change that I am heartened that the Rs are getting out and making themselves heard on an issue. When was the last time you saw anything this effective on that level from the Rs?
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Define "effective." And I don't think they're really doing much to make themselves "heard on the issue." They're doing plenty to make themselves look foolish but that's about it. I think they're taking notes on Orly Taitz's performance as Queen of the Birfer movement.

Last time I saw anything like this from the Rs was just about a year ago after the Palin selection.
 
Dungheap said:
Well, if you take a look at Krugman's article he made a direct comparison to equivalent events, Republican town hall meetings in 2005 on Social Security reform:



In short, he's comparing apples to apples. If you have any evidence to rebut his claims (head nods to WTO protests don't qualify) please provide it.

I hope this helps.
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Such a Krugman apologist. So sad. Go drink your kool aid.

Krugman is biased hard against the right. That is why he depicts protesters as a 'mob'... that is why he tries to vilify them as 'racists' or 'angry white people'. He says of the democrats... they might have been a bit 'rude or raucous'
 
Dungheap said:
Define "effective." And I don't think they're really doing much to make themselves "heard on the issue." They're doing plenty to make themselves look foolish but that's about it. I think they're taking notes on Orly Taitz's performance as Queen of the Birfer movement.

Last time I saw anything like this from the Rs was just about a year ago after the Palin selection.
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I think it effectively shows people in the party who may otherwise be silent that there are people just as upset about this. And it shows Congress that this issue will most definitely be the center of the next campaign cycle, passed or not it will be.
 
Damocles said:
*sigh*

Hence my regular caveats. While it fits within the normal conversation it shows that I support some portions of this while I am against other portions of it. I understand that you want to read everything I post through poop-colored lenses, but you don't have to spend that much energy and it would make for better conversations if you didn't.

Just the other day I was reading some of the "best of the best" over at Tom's place (he's on the radio right now filling in for the morning host) where he let me read a few of his "best" death threat letters. It's wrong whoever does that, but that doesn't change that I am heartened that the Rs are getting out and making themselves heard on an issue. When was the last time you saw anything this effective on that level from the Rs? I don't remember the Rs being effective at that level...
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Depends what you mean by "anything like it." I consider disinformation & intimidation hallmarks of the right, whether it's on healthcare, the Iraq War, gun control or whatever issue.

I won't deny that it is effective, just as it was in the early '90's. Then, we had Bush campaigning in 2000 on the uninsured & the healthcare crisis, but still, a full 16+ years after the Hillarycare debacle, nothing has been done, and we're still confronted with a system that - more than any other area - will bankrupt us eventually.

Some genuine competing ideas would be nice, or at least some commitment from the right that healthcare is even an issue.
 
Superfreak said:
Such a Krugman apologist. So sad. Go drink your kool aid.

Krugman is biased hard against the right. That is why he depicts protesters as a 'mob'... that is why he tries to vilify them as 'racists' or 'angry white people'. He says of the democrats... they might have been a bit 'rude or raucous'
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Show me that Krugman is wrong about the 2005 Social Security town halls. I'm willing to be convinced. I asked Damocles for similar evidence a while back and am still waiting to hear from him.

Perhaps the Colorado Connection can come up with something. Think of it as as a team-building exercise, an opportunity for you two to spend some quality time together.
 
Dungheap said:
Show me that Krugman is wrong about the 2005 Social Security town halls. I'm willing to be convinced. I asked Damocles for similar evidence a while back and am still waiting to hear from him.

Perhaps the Colorado Connection can come up with something. Think of it as as a team-building exercise, an opportunity for you two to spend some quality time together.
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My god you are desperate... my point is that Krugman pretends these protesters are mobs/racists/angry white people out to shout down da black Presidents plan... blah blah blah.... Show me where he doesn't do that.

Then he puts forth the idiocy that these protesters might just be the birthers finding another way to attack the Obamaman.

Then he pretends that disruptive protesters must be something 'new and ugly' because he saw no evidence of them when social security changes were proposed. Looking at one event and saying 'nope didn't happen there' and then following up with 'so this must be sumthin new and ugly' is the part that is bullshit.

But I know, you will continue defending his bullshit by clinging to that one little tiny straw. When you open your mind a bit, feel free and address me again and we can have a real discussion.
 
Onceler said:
Depends what you mean by "anything like it." I consider disinformation & intimidation hallmarks of the right, whether it's on healthcare, the Iraq War, gun control or whatever issue.

I won't deny that it is effective, just as it was in the early '90's. Then, we had Bush campaigning in 2000 on the uninsured & the healthcare crisis, but still, a full 16+ years after the Hillarycare debacle, nothing has been done, and we're still confronted with a system that - more than any other area - will bankrupt us eventually.

Some genuine competing ideas would be nice, or at least some commitment from the right that healthcare is even an issue.
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First and foremost they need to slow down and do this right.

Personally I want them to begin with a serious and complete study of the cost, it has increased exponentially and inexplicably faster than any indicators would show. There is very likely Pentagon-hammers type savings in there that would make it more affordable for everybody, let alone the government paid option.

I would like to ensure privacy for patients, while we need a centralized database we need to make it private so that access is limited and it isn't maintained by the government. An added layer between the government would first allow there to be more accountability to the patient than if it were run by the government, and would make it more difficult if the government again got overbearing and sought access.

Throughout the existence of the US, one of our strengths has been the differences between us and the former monarchies of Europe. I would like to maintain that difference and seek options that are not government centralized. I don't want the government further into the business of providing insurance, regulate it, set up a safety net, that's what governments are for, but taking it over? I prefer not.
 
Yurt said:
when the dems do this....patriotic....you dems just cannot handle free opposing view points and know that you must shove obamacare down the people's throat in order to get it passed because if anyone stops and thinks about it or gasp, reads it, it will never pass....

it is just like darla claiming it is pathetic for people to post videos of obama, just a few years ago and a senator, saying he wants to get rid of private insurance....yeah, so pathetic.....:rolleyes:
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Bush said the same thing, and so did McCain during the election.
 
Superfreak said:
My god you are desperate... my point is that Krugman pretends these protesters are mobs/racists/angry white people out to shout down da black Presidents plan... blah blah blah.... Show me where he doesn't do that.
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They mainly are angry white people. They're the same folks that went to McCain-Palin rallies and that attended those Tea Parties.

Then he puts forth the idiocy that these protesters might just be the birthers finding another way to attack the Obamaman.
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Spend some time floating around the right-wing blogosphere and you'll find the same people pushing the birther bullshit and the same people pushing the angry mob bullshit.

Then he pretends that disruptive protesters must be something 'new and ugly' because he saw no evidence of them when social security changes were proposed. Looking at one event and saying 'nope didn't happen there' and then following up with 'so this must be sumthin new and ugly' is the part that is bullshit.
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One event? There was a several month long campaign to reform Social Security with scads of town hall meetings held by members of Congress in their districts. Its the most recent comparator. Maybe you have another suggestion for a relevant comparator (Note again that the WTO stuff isn't at all close).

But I know, you will continue defending his bullshit by clinging to that one little tiny straw. When you open your mind a bit, feel free and address me again and we can have a real discussion.
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This is so vague as to not warrant a response.
 
Dungheap said:
"They mainly are angry white people. They're the same folks that went to McCain-Palin rallies and that attended those Tea Parties. "

Yes, and the war protesters in Code Pink were mainly angry white people, but funny that you don't see them described in such a manner. Keep making excuses... but don't forget to replenish your kool aid. We wouldn't want you running out.


"Spend some time floating around the right-wing blogosphere and you'll find the same people pushing the birther bullshit and the same people pushing the angry mob bullshit."

LMAO... what a crock of shit. So because some people on BLOGS are spouting off about both topics that must mean the people in attendance are birthers???? You really are desperate.


"One event? There was a several month long campaign to reform Social Security with scads of town hall meetings held by members of Congress in their districts. Its the most recent comparator. Maybe you have another suggestion for a relevant comparator (Note again that the WTO stuff isn't at all close)."

Again, your desperation shows. One topic, not one single town hall meeting you dolt. You knew what I was referring to yet clung desperately to the hope that you could spin that. Again, he pretends that because the left were only 'rude and raucous' at the social security events that the 'disruptive mobs' were something 'new and ugly'. But keep on spinning. Your desperation is quite amusing.



This is so vague as to not warrant a response.
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Translation: 'I know I am grasping at straws trying to defend my beloved hero Krugman, but its all I got, so please stop pointing out his idiocy;'
 
Superfreak said:
Translation: 'I know I am grasping at straws trying to defend my beloved hero Krugman, but its all I got, so please stop pointing out his idiocy;'
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Codepink was widely despised even within the peace movement. Its members were called things far, far worse than "angry white people".

I have seen this comparison being made a lot, and I don't know how to really respond to it. It's an interesting point. I guess that, to me, it's so obviously transparent that there is a huge difference between trying to end, or at least call attention to, a horrifically immoral war that was murdering people very day, and attempting to shut down health care insurance for the nearly 50 million who don't have it, while protecing the millions more of underinsured, as well as people who can lose their homes, and even lives, at the whim of their insurance company.

Now the people showing up at these townhall events; some are gop operatives, and have been caught redhanded. They are using the same methods of the so-called, brooks brothers "riots" - an "angry mob" of concerned and outraged citizens shutting down the 2000 recount.

But I suspect that many of them are just old people. That's what they look like. and most probably don't work for the gop. But they have very good health care through medicare. And it's become kinda obvious that they don't give a shit about anything but their own old asses, and are petrified that allowing others the option of buying in, will eventually cause them to lose some of their benefits.

And you know, to me, there's nothing admirable about that. Nothing at all. I feel sorry for them. that's what pitiful examples of human beings I think they are.

You're probably one of the few people on this board with health insurance as good as what I've got (i would guess). Believe me, this is no skin off my personal nose, and what makes me outright smirk sometimes? Is that I know some of the most voracious opponents of this on this board, are much more vulnerable to an eventual fucking from our health care system than I am.

I'm 100% for single payer because I believe everyone has the right to live.

So I see some differences between the comparisons you are attempting to make over tactics, but I know that not everyone will agree.
 
hehe, you bet the Progressives believe in single payer health care, "so the people can live"...the only thing is..we will all have to live the lives that THEY tell us to...No Thanks...:)
 
Darla said:
But I suspect that many of them are just old people. That's what they look like. and most probably don't work for the gop. But they have very good health care through medicare. And it's become kinda obvious that they don't give a shit about anything but their own old asses, and are petrified that allowing others the option of buying in, will eventually cause them to lose some of their benefits.

And you know, to me, there's nothing admirable about that. Nothing at all. I feel sorry for them. that's what pitiful examples of human beings I think they are.
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Old people are useless eaters. Who will be next?

You?
 
meme said:
hehe, you bet the Progressives believe in single payer health care, "so the people can live"...the only thing is..we will all have to live the lives that THEY tell us to...No Thanks...:)
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Yeah; it's terrible to get everyone the option for health coverage, so they can get life-saving procedures if they need them.

Let me just tally it up for the GOP:

Anti-healthcare
Anti-environment/planet
Pro war

Cool. Good platform ya got there...
 
meme said:
Paul Krugman is a friggen Communist for gawds sake..who takes anything he says seriously..
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Wow is Commie really making a comeback among you conservatards? (Note not all conservatives are conservatards, only the really special, gays are icky, abortion kills babies, Obama is a Kenyan righties) Are you all going to start using the term Reds and Pinkos again too? This is too funny.
 
Onceler said:
Yeah; it's terrible to get everyone the option for health coverage, so they can get life-saving procedures if they need them.

Let me just tally it up for the GOP:

Anti-healthcare
Anti-environment/planet
Pro war

Cool. Good platform ya got there...
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heard it all before..must suck to be a Progressive about now, eh?
 
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