While Shooter Took Out Fourth Graders, Cops Huddled in Safety

[Dutch Uncle]

Good man. And I have kids, like many here, so after yesterday I hope you understand why I might be a little "prickly" today. Especially after learning some of it MIGHT have been prevented by the cowardly cops.

The police weren't cowards. They were simply undertrained and confused on the chain of command IMO. Typical of such a situation in a small town.

Notice the agencies which showed up; town police, state police, border patrol. Sorting out who was in charge is took time. Although an investigation is needed to prove it, I suspect they'd never trained for this problem. To go or not go is, literally, a life and death decision.

For you to disregard the idea that this could have been a terrorist attack with Jihadis or WSEs holding hostages wrapped with C-4 is to blind yourself to world realities. How long does it take to figure something like that out? 15 minutes? 30? 45? How long did it take before the assault team attacked?

 

[Dutch Uncle]

No one grows a gun inside their body

Don’t try to compare these things

you're smart enough to know that this discussion is about how much control our own government has over all Americans. Yes, as you said, precedent.

It’s called precedent

As Gerald Ford once wisely said to Congress, “A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have.”

I'm not a fan of banning things from innocent Americans and I'm not a fan of giving the Federal government more power than it always has when it comes to stripping Americans of their rights.

 

[LurchAddams]

The police weren't cowards. They were simply undertrained and confused on the chain of command IMO. Typical of such a situation in a small town.

I can't buy that, pal. Sorry. The cops have a duty to protect people. It doesn't take training to go in and rescue kids. It just takes courage. The parents were trying to do it but were actually held back by the cowards. If it was a training issue, why didn't the top cop tell us that? He just ran away and didn't address it.

Notice the agencies which showed up; town police, state police, border patrol. Sorting out who was in charge is took time. Although an investigation is needed to prove it, I suspect they'd never trained for this problem. To go or not go is, literally, a life and death decision.

No. Someone should have gone in. Training was not the issue. Cowardice was the issue.

For you to disregard the idea that this could have been a terrorist attack with Jihadis or WSEs holding hostages wrapped with C-4 is to blind yourself to world realities. How long does it take to figure something like that out? 15 minutes? 30? 45? How long did it take before the assault team attacked?

Don't know where your "terrorist attack" fever dream just came from. This was a lone shooter, and the cops should have gone in.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Ah. So here's your fallacy. Marriage isn't in the Constitution either. Women aren't even in the Constitution. Did you know that women had to fight to vote just last Century?

So even WITH the constitution, women and black people couldn't vote for over 100 years.

You're losing this argument, my friend. Try something else.

You're the banner, dude. I'm the one saying equal rights for all, legalize everything for consenting adults.

 

[LurchAddams]

You're the banner, dude. I'm the one saying equal rights for all, legalize everything for consenting adults.

Well, I'm confused by your response. My point was the Constitution is irrelevant where military style weapons are concerned.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I can't buy that, pal. Sorry. The cops have a duty to protect people. It doesn't take training to go in and rescue kids. It just takes courage. The parents were trying to do it but were actually held back by the cowards. If it was a training issue, why didn't the top cop tell us that? He just ran away and didn't address it.


No. Someone should have gone in. Training was not the issue. Cowardice was the issue.

Don't know where your "terrorist attack" fever dream just came from. This was a lone shooter, and the cops should have gone in.

While you are free to claim you are a rich, successful businessman who retired at 42 after being awarded the Medal of Honor in Afghanistan by rushing into a Taliban village to save babies, I'm starting to believe you have no idea which way is up.

How were the police on the outside supposed to know what was inside the school? Again, how long did it take for the police, who were shot at upon arrival, to assault the school?

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Well, I'm confused by your response. My point was the Constitution is irrelevant where military style weapons are concerned.

My point is that the Constitution only limits the Federal government, not you and me. That's what unalienable rights is all about.

The problem is that both parties have spent the last hundred years trying to limit rights instead of expand them. Sure, the 1964 CRA and the 1971 26th Amendment expanded freedoms, but mostly our nation is descending deeper and deeper into conceding all power to Washington DC...as if their track record deserves it. LOL

Anyone who believes that the US can ban its way to more freedom is fooling themselves.

 

[Jarod]

A good guy with a gun was grazed by the shooter's bullet before killing him. Why are people shitting on the police here?

BTW, the officer grazed took several staples to the head to close the wound.

https://wpde.com/news/nation-world/...hildren-teachers-bill-melugin-marsha-espinosa
Hole in hat of border agent who killed Texas school shooter shows close brush with death

A very brave good guy, I’m not attacking good guys, I’m simply pointing out that having them around is not solving the problem.

 

[anatta]

there must have been ways.. teargas, stun grenades...horrible for th kids but not as horrible as bleeding out

 

[Dutch Uncle]

A very brave good guy, I’m not attacking good guys, I’m simply pointing out that having them around is not solving the problem.

Agreed. The problem started when the shooter began showing symptoms of mental derangement but nothing was done. It's the same with the other infamous mass shooters like Nikolas Cruz, Jared Loughner, James Holmes and James Hodgkinson. People knew they were nuts. So why was nothing done?

 

[martin]

The police weren't cowards. They were simply undertrained and confused on the chain of command IMO. Typical of such a situation in a small town.

Notice the agencies which showed up; town police, state police, border patrol. Sorting out who was in charge is took time. Although an investigation is needed to prove it, I suspect they'd never trained for this problem. To go or not go is, literally, a life and death decision.

For you to disregard the idea that this could have been a terrorist attack with Jihadis or WSEs holding hostages wrapped with C-4 is to blind yourself to world realities. How long does it take to figure something like that out? 15 minutes? 30? 45? How long did it take before the assault team attacked?

You're mistaken for umpteenth time. The precedent was set after Columbine in 1999. Since that massacre the protocol taught in all police departments says officers should pursue shooters inside buildings without waiting for specialized backup.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

You're mistaken for umpteenth time. The precedent was set after Columbine in 1999. Since that massacre the protocol taught in all police departments says officers should pursue shooters inside buildings without waiting for specialized backup.

Okey-dokey. How large is the police force in Uvalde...population 16K?

 

[anatta]

You're mistaken for umpteenth time. The precedent was set after Columbine in 1999. Since that massacre the protocol taught in all police departments says officers should pursue shooters inside buildings without waiting for specialized backup.

correct.
they were probably poorly trained or no TAC unit - not making excuses because they could have tried anything like stun grenade or tear gas, certainly something could have been done withing that time frame besides rushing in without armor,or standing around holding back parents

 

[LurchAddams]

While you are free to claim you are a rich, successful businessman who retired at 42 after being awarded the Medal of Honor in Afghanistan by rushing into a Taliban village to save babies, I'm starting to believe you have no idea which way is up.

How were the police on the outside supposed to know what was inside the school? Again, how long did it take for the police, who were shot at upon arrival, to assault the school?

What you believe about me matters not the least bit to me. The polices' job is to protect the innocent. They were instead protecting the shooter.

And I know why this upsets you so. For years, you stood behind that "good guy with a gun" sexual fantasy. Well, that was all blown out of the water in TX 48 hours ago, wasn't it, Princess?

Tik, tik, motherfucker.. we're going to get your guns now!

 

[volsrock]

So u POS Libs want cops to rush into the school with guns blazing

But dont want to place a bad ass x military guy in school full time with a gun... or train a teacher or two and arm them in the school

 

[LurchAddams]

correct.
they were probably poorly trained or no TAC unit - not making excuses because they could have tried anything like stun grenade or tear gas, certainly something could have been done withing that time frame besides rushing in without armor,or standing around holding back parents

They did try stun guns and pepper spray. On the parents trying to save their kids from being murdered.

 

[Matt Dillon]

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/bc-us-texas-school-shooting_n_628eea7fe4b0cda85dba37de

"We can't go in until the bomb squad gets there", the policeman in apparent charge shouted to a group of officers outside the school. Inside the school, gun shots could be heard. A woman standing nearby screamed at the police, "Go in there". They waited. The shooter spent his leisurely hour dispatching one child after another along with their teachers until class was over for forever.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/bc-us-texas-school-shooting_n_628eea7fe4b0cda85dba37de

Earlier, a security guard posted at the school for exactly the protection needed that day was the first person the shooter eliminated.

So, what is the solution to mass shootings at schools. "More police," says Ted Cruz and the chorus

Oh, that is bad.

 

[volsrock]

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/bc-us-texas-school-shooting_n_628eea7fe4b0cda85dba37de

"We can't go in until the bomb squad gets there", the policeman in apparent charge shouted to a group of officers outside the school. Inside the school, gun shots could be heard. A woman standing nearby screamed at the police, "Go in there". They waited. The shooter spent his leisurely hour dispatching one child after another along with their teachers until class was over for forever.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/bc-us-texas-school-shooting_n_628eea7fe4b0cda85dba37de

Earlier, a security guard posted at the school for exactly the protection needed that day was the first person the shooter eliminated.

So, what is the solution to mass shootings at schools. "More police," says Ted Cruz and the chorus

Cops dont have to do a damn thing...they could have played cards outside and they cant be sued

https://www.justplainpolitics.com/s...l-this-bitching-about-cops-doing-nothing-well

 

[Matt Dillon]

The Parkland Cops ran away. The Buffalo Cop was killed instantly. The 3 Cops at Uvalde were overpowered, then waited 40 min to enter the school.

Veteran Cops repeatedly failed—but we’re supposed to expect Lunch Lady Doris & School Nurse Betty to stop a terrorist with an AR-15

Qassim Rashid, ESQ

3 cops overpowered? What's wrong with that situation? Something definitely is.

I haven't seen the building, but they couldn't shoot through the windows?

 

[LurchAddams]

The cops are cowards. Their guilt is going to be there demise and they'll end up taking themselves out. I'd like to be there for that. Because that would be justice.