So much for the Wilson effect...

I like the more they hear about it the less they like it line.
I buy the S&P 500 and a couple of the insurers or at least United Health is in the top 20. It's going to be a bonanza for the evil insurance co's.
 
Can someone point me to the rules regarding which polls are deemed to be credible and when? I can't for the life of me figure it all out. Last I recall, Rasmussen was, like, the totally only reliable public opinion polling outfit out there. But then Rasmussen reported thusly:

Support for the health care reform plan proposed by President Obama and congressional Democrats continues to grow following the president's speech to Congress last Wednesday night. It has now risen to the highest level yet measured, and, for the first time, shows a slight uptick in support among Republicans and voters not affiliated with either party.

And now we hear nothing about the oh-so-reliable Rasmussen and instead we get the Washington Post/ABC poll. And another interesting thing about the WaPO/ABC poll, is that you won't hear about this:

trust.jpg



That's right, when asked who they trusted to handle health care, the economy and the deficit, Obama is trusted much much more than the Republicans.

Instead of picking and choosing which polls to trust and when, I think it quite clear that while polling on an election is fairly easy, polling on issues is at best sketchy and you really shouldn't put much stock in them either way.
 
Can someone point me to the rules regarding which polls are deemed to be credible and when? I can't for the life of me figure it all out. Last I recall, Rasmussen was, like, the totally only reliable public opinion polling outfit out there. But then Rasmussen reported thusly:



And now we hear nothing about the oh-so-reliable Rasmussen and instead we get the Washington Post/ABC poll. And another interesting thing about the WaPO/ABC poll, is that you won't hear about this:

trust.jpg



That's right, when asked who they trusted to handle health care, the economy and the deficit, Obama is trusted much much more than the Republicans.

Instead of picking and choosing which polls to trust and when, I think it quite clear that while polling on an election is fairly easy, polling on issues is at best sketchy and you really shouldn't put much stock in them either way.

I had not seen the Rasmussen release today...

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub.../healthcare/september_2009/health_care_reform

"Forty-seven percent (47%) of unaffiliated voters now favor the plan while 50% are opposed. Those figures include 19% who Strongly Favor the plan and 38% who are Strongly Opposed."

"If the plan passes, 34% of voters say the quality of care will get better and 46% say it will get worse. In August, the numbers were 23% better and 50% worse.

Forty-two percent (42%) say passage of the plan will make the cost of health care go up while 28% say it will make costs go down. In August, 52% thought the plan would lead to higher costs, and only 17% thought it would achieve the stated goal of lowering costs. "

On the latter two points there has been improvement, but it still is almost 1.5 to 1 that think the healthcare will cost more. You still have 50% of independents opposed.

Bottom line, as mentioned, there has been no great shift due to Wilsons comments. Once people start realizing Obama is full of shit on the cost front, those numbers will likely return.

"“The most important fundamental is that 68% of American voters have health-insurance coverage they rate good or excellent … Most of these voters approach the health-care reform debate fearing that they have more to lose than to gain.”"
 
I had not seen the Rasmussen release today...

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub.../healthcare/september_2009/health_care_reform

"Forty-seven percent (47%) of unaffiliated voters now favor the plan while 50% are opposed. Those figures include 19% who Strongly Favor the plan and 38% who are Strongly Opposed."

"If the plan passes, 34% of voters say the quality of care will get better and 46% say it will get worse. In August, the numbers were 23% better and 50% worse.

Forty-two percent (42%) say passage of the plan will make the cost of health care go up while 28% say it will make costs go down. In August, 52% thought the plan would lead to higher costs, and only 17% thought it would achieve the stated goal of lowering costs. "

On the latter two points there has been improvement, but it still is almost 1.5 to 1 that think the healthcare will cost more. You still have 50% of independents opposed.

Bottom line, as mentioned, there has been no great shift due to Wilsons comments. Once people start realizing Obama is full of shit on the cost front, those numbers will likely return.

"“The most important fundamental is that 68% of American voters have health-insurance coverage they rate good or excellent … Most of these voters approach the health-care reform debate fearing that they have more to lose than to gain.”"



Hilarious. First, it was that Wilson's idiocy didn't result in mass movement to the Dems. Now that it has been pointed out to you that your favored polling outfit found that support for the healthcare reform bill is higher than ever before we get some back-tracking bullshit.

The bottom line is that in the wake of Obama's speech, the polling shows the highest levels of support, a seven point swing in favor of the bill and seven percent drop in opposition to the bill. It's a net 14-point swing.

If this were an election and a poll swung that dramatically after a single speech, it would be called a game-changer. Pretending otherwise is pretty stupid.
 
South Carolinians are notoriously racist knuckledraggers.

They started the Civil War in a vain attempt to preserve slavery.

Strom Thurmond was a South Carolinian.

Their GOP governor is an admitted adulterer.

Their state capitol flies the racist battle flag of the defeated Confederacy.

Of course the GOP is popular there, as long as the police are used to keep minorities from voting out retards like Wilson and DeMint.
 
Hilarious. First, it was that Wilson's idiocy didn't result in mass movement to the Dems. Now that it has been pointed out to you that your favored polling outfit found that support for the healthcare reform bill is higher than ever before we get some back-tracking bullshit.

The bottom line is that in the wake of Obama's speech, the polling shows the highest levels of support, a seven point swing in favor of the bill and seven percent drop in opposition to the bill. It's a net 14-point swing.

If this were an election and a poll swung that dramatically after a single speech, it would be called a game-changer. Pretending otherwise is pretty stupid.

What mass movement? The biggest increase appears to have come from within the DEM party.... not from Independents and Republicans.

As I stated, Obama (who is a great teleprompter reader) stated some things regarding the cost that are not accurate. As people realize that fact, this is going to swing back. Bottom line, it was more due to Obama's mischaracterizations and not due to Wilson's outburst. Which was the point.

BAC and others suggested that there would be a mass movement. Gaining ground within your own party is hardly a mass movement.

Pretending otherwise is pretty stupid. Especially considering the plan still lacks majority support among independents.
 
What percentage of voters are independent?

What percentage of independents voted for the president last November?

Case closed.
 
Hilarious. First, it was that Wilson's idiocy didn't result in mass movement to the Dems. Now that it has been pointed out to you that your favored polling outfit found that support for the healthcare reform bill is higher than ever before we get some back-tracking bullshit.

The bottom line is that in the wake of Obama's speech, the polling shows the highest levels of support, a seven point swing in favor of the bill and seven percent drop in opposition to the bill. It's a net 14-point swing.

If this were an election and a poll swung that dramatically after a single speech, it would be called a game-changer. Pretending otherwise is pretty stupid.

"Forty-seven percent (47%) of unaffiliated voters now favor the plan while 50% are opposed. Those figures include 19% who Strongly Favor the plan and 38% who are Strongly Opposed."

The independent vote is still against, with the vast majority of those opposed being 'strongly opposed'. That is not a sign that he will see a mass shift in voting.
 
Are you under the impression that the voters will participate in an up or down vote on reform in Congress?

It ain't a referendum.
 
I hear Wilson's up to a million dollars donated since he told the truth about Obama.
Well good for him, I just wish he had not broken protocol, but it seems to be the trend in this country. Good manners are quickly flying out the window. Civility is no longer one of the things that Americans can claim in the Halls of Congress.

He is entitled to his opinion, there has always been a place and a time. I would not go to church and yell liar at a priest or minister. There is a place and a time to voice our beliefs, other times, we should keep them to ourselves, no matter how much passion we have when it comes to the subject matter being discussed.

I can see fight clubs and arenas for gang wars if this keeps up.
 
What percentage of voters are independent?

What percentage of independents voted for the president last November?

Case closed.

LMAO... which case did you just close?

While the percentage who state they are independent varies by poll, I believe more recent polls suggest about 39% say they are Dems, 21% Reps, the remainder are independent/third party (I have not seen a breakdown).

Independents gave Obama his election win last year. They can just as easily hammer the Dems in 2010.
 
Well good for him, I just wish he had not broken protocol, but it seems to be the trend in this country. Good manners are quickly flying out the window. Civility is no longer one of the things that Americans can claim in the Halls of Congress.

He is entitled to his opinion, there has always been a place and a time. I would not go to church and yell liar at a priest or minister. There is a place and a time to voice our beliefs, other times, we should keep them to ourselves, no matter how much passion we have when it comes to the subject matter being discussed.

I can see fight clubs and arenas for gang wars if this keeps up.

agreed
 
Well good for him, I just wish he had not broken protocol, but it seems to be the trend in this country. Good manners are quickly flying out the window. Civility is no longer one of the things that Americans can claim in the Halls of Congress.

He is entitled to his opinion, there has always been a place and a time. I would not go to church and yell liar at a priest or minister. There is a place and a time to voice our beliefs, other times, we should keep them to ourselves, no matter how much passion we have when it comes to the subject matter being discussed.

I can see fight clubs and arenas for gang wars if this keeps up.
I agree, but this started in recent history when Bush addressed Congress and the Democrats booed him. Reap what ye sow.
 
Did you predict the independents would "hammer Obama" last November?
 
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