Cap-n-trade ; does the right even care anymore that they're lying bags of shit?

Cap and trade is making a market of ridiculous abstractions. Just like securitizations of bad mortgages.

Marketizing the right pollute, especially when CO2 is labelled a pollutant is a bad idea.

We will be taxed on the right to breathe. And when we can't pay, we will smothered by the state.

More Obama Death Panels!
 
What will it cost families, watermark?

In future wages losses and unemployment from a suppressed economy? It's caclulably high.

Cap and trade will ruin the world.

Dunderheads like WM are all for this sleight of hand with credits changing hands, because he is clueless as to the why and how of it. All additional costs (and there will be many) will be passed off onto the consumer, jobs will be lost, more socialist programs will be created to "help"...socialism via the back door, the proverbial frog in the slow heating pot as it were.

Right now we have a global paradigm of wealth and power resting with traditional money interests. Cap and Trade would shift that paradigm to another group. There is no real threat of global warming. It is the ruse to shift power and wealth to global socialist interests. Follow the money.
 
Dunderheads like WM are all for this sleight of hand with credits changing hands, because he is clueless as to the why and how of it. All additional costs (and there will be many) will be passed off onto the consumer, jobs will be lost, more socialist programs will be created to "help"...socialism via the back door, the proverbial frog in the slow heating pot as it were.

Right now we have a global paradigm of wealth and power resting with traditional money interests. Cap and Trade would shift that paradigm to another group. There is no real threat of global warming. It is the ruse to shift power and wealth to global socialist interests. Follow the money.

SOCIALISM :clink:
 
mainly because his OP denied something existed, and you just provided a copy of "that which did not exist".......that makes me suspect it really exists after all....

Krugman provided links to the sources for his claims in his article. I'm not your servant; read what I posted and click on the links before claiming I provided no proof, fool.
 
mainly because his OP denied something existed, and you just provided a copy of "that which did not exist".......that makes me suspect it really exists after all....

"Glenn Beck lied outright and said that it was a 'buried Obama report'."

That's the falsehood I wanted to point out.

It must not have been buried too deeply.
 
Are you positing that if a published government report is not "all over the evening news" it's "buried"? Just wondering.

oh no, of course not....I only think something is 'buried' if it's shoveled over by some creepy looking guy in a cemetery with bent iron gates, cracked stone mausoleums and creeping fog drifting in from off screen.....
 
and I'm not yours.....if you can't prove what you say, don't expect us to 1) do it for you, or 2) waste our time believing you.....

If you had read what I said the links are embedded in the text, you retard. It's not my responsibility to babysit you. You clearly have no interest in being enlightened, so remain ignorant, fool.
 
you don't know it was a lie....he might have been told that by a staffer or simply got it wrong....

you know, like that time you said krugman was wrong before you realized it was krugman....using your logic, you LIED because you then changed your tune when you finally realized it was krugman :pke:
 
If you had read what I said the links are embedded in the text, you retard. It's not my responsibility to babysit you. You clearly have no interest in being enlightened, so remain ignorant, fool.

nothing in the links embedded in the text show that it's a lie.....I don't expect you to babysit me, I just expect you to come clean about misposting, or prove what you say.....I will continue to "remain ignorant" of anything truthful in your post....
 
you don't know it was a lie....he might have been told that by a staffer or simply got it wrong....

Watermark's claim is that this number was made up by some right wing blogger.....the right wing blogger quotes a CBO report....that's hardly the same as making it up.....
 
Dunderheads like WM are all for this sleight of hand with credits changing hands, because he is clueless as to the why and how of it. All additional costs (and there will be many) will be passed off onto the consumer, jobs will be lost, more socialist programs will be created to "help"...socialism via the back door, the proverbial frog in the slow heating pot as it were.

Right now we have a global paradigm of wealth and power resting with traditional money interests. Cap and Trade would shift that paradigm to another group. There is no real threat of global warming. It is the ruse to shift power and wealth to global socialist interests. Follow the money.

The scientific consensus is that global climate change is not only real, but presents a mortal danger to civilization as we know it. Last winter, when most of North America was having colder than usual weather (like snow inHouston), the climatically-challenged went nuts, with much wailing, gnashing of teeth , and rending of garments (my personal favorite), that this proved global climate change was false. Sigh. Once more into the breach.

It proved nothing of the sort. A cooling effect in one part of the world does not only not disprove global warming, but is an inevitable byproduct of it. Global warming does not entail that the entire globe warms uniformly, only that the annual mean temperature of the earth will be warmer, and in fact, due to regional differences in climatic engines, some areas of the earth will be significantly colder, but will be overbalanced by the regions that become catastrophically warmer. For example, while Houston was having snow, it was above freezing in Alaska, northern Canada, and Russia/Siberia, to the point where the permafrost is thawing, Moscow in February was 45 degrees F (compared to a normal February in that part of the world, with highs between -20 F and -10 F). Do the math, kids. Houston is 15-20 degrees colder while Moscow is 55-65 degrees warmer. Not good, especially considering there is a huge frozen peat bog in Siberia that is no longer frozen, and is beginning to release billions of tons of once-trapped methane into the atmosphere. Methane is an even more potent greenhouse gas than CO2.

Okay, let's look a two of the predicted effects of global warming: unstable weather, with more frequent and more violent storms. Why? Visualize a pot of water on the stove at room temp: still and calm with no more than the usual convective movement as the room temp varies with the seasons or normal daily solar warming, and nighttime cooling. Now, turn on the burner, and add energy to the closed system. Suddenly, you have a who shitload of convective movement as the body of water strives to reach equilibrium. The same thing is happening to our atmosphere.

The other thing the models are predicting is the partial desalinization of the North Atlantic due to the rapid melting of the Greenland ice cap, which is happening as we speak, and at a far greater rate than predicted. The glaciers are melting so rapidly that the melt water, rather than staying on the surface and trickling off slowly, is melting straight down through the ice cap to the bedrock below, and forming a lubricant layer which is allowing the cap to slide off the rock into the North Atlantic at an alarming rate. One reearcher, who had been gone from his camp for only a month on a short lecture tour, brought a PBS camera crew back to Greenland with him, and was visibly stunned when the helicopter arrived at what had been the location of his camp, and it was nowhere to be found. They eventually found it 5 miles from where it was supposed to be. The adjective "glacial" is used to express the epitome of slow movement. A speedy glacier wouldn't move 30 feet in 30 days, let alone 5 miles. The reason this is cause for concern to climatologists is that the thermohaline circulation component of the Atlantic Ocean currents, the subsurface currents that return cold water from the North Atlantic around Cape Horn and into the Indian and Pacific Oceans, where it wells up to the surface, is powered by the "meridional overturning circulation (MOC) which is itself driven by temperature and salinity alone as opposed to other factors such as the wind. Cold, saline water sinks to the Atlantic's abyssal plains, and flows south, replaced by the north-flowing current commonly known as the Gulf Stream, which cools the South Atlantic and Gulf of Mexico by moving the jeat north, where it simultaneously moderates the temperatures of the northeast US and eastern Canada and to a large extent those of northwest Europe. The introduction of large amounts of less dense fresh melt water into this area of the North Atlantic, is believed to have slowed the MOC sufficiently 12,900 years ago to create the Younger Dryas period, a mini ice age that took effect in the above areas abruptly (in less than a decade), lasted until 11,500 years ago, created a population bottleneck, and set civilization back. It would have much the same effect now, because despite our technology, you cxan't have civilization without settlements, and you can't have settlements without agriculture. If the northeast is having a mini ice age, and the south and midwest are in permanent drought, where are we going to grow food? And don't tell me Canada. The Laurentian ice sheet of the last major glacial period scraped Canada clean of most of its topsoil, most of which ended up in Iowa, Illinois, Indiana, and Ohio. In fact, 10% of the world's richest topsoil is in Iowa.

You talk about the cost of cap and trade and the ruin of the economy. What the hell do you think is going to happen when catastrophic climate change bites us in the ass? For years, the Pentagon has been computer gaming scenarios for wars fought not for ideology or power, but for food and water. There is no surrender for that kind of war...it's a fight to the death.

Grow a clue.
 
The scientific consensus is that global climate change is not only real, but presents a mortal danger to civilization as we know it. Last winter, when most of North America was having colder than usual weather (like snow inHouston), the climatically-challenged went nuts, with much wailing, gnashing of teeth , and rending of garments (my personal favorite), that this proved global climate change was false. Sigh. Once more into the breach.

It proved nothing of the sort. A cooling effect in one part of the world does not only not disprove global warming, but is an inevitable byproduct of it. Global warming does not entail that the entire globe warms uniformly, only that the annual mean temperature of the earth will be warmer, and in fact, due to regional differences in climatic engines, some areas of the earth will be significantly colder, but will be overbalanced by the regions that become catastrophically warmer. For example, while Houston was having snow, it was above freezing in Alaska, northern Canada, and Russia/Siberia, to the point where the permafrost is thawing, Moscow in February was 45 degrees F (compared to a normal February in that part of the world, with highs between -20 F and -10 F). Do the math, kids. Houston is 15-20 degrees colder while Moscow is 55-65 degrees warmer. Not good, especially considering there is a huge frozen peat bog in Siberia that is no longer frozen, and is beginning to release billions of tons of once-trapped methane into the atmosphere. Methane is an even more potent greenhouse gas than CO2.

Okay, let's look a two of the predicted effects of global warming: unstable weather, with more frequent and more violent storms. Why? Visualize a pot of water on the stove at room temp: still and calm with no more than the usual convective movement as the room temp varies with the seasons or normal daily solar warming, and nighttime cooling. Now, turn on the burner, and add energy to the closed system. Suddenly, you have a who shitload of convective movement as the body of water strives to reach equilibrium. The same thing is happening to our atmosphere.

The other thing the models are predicting is the partial desalinization of the North Atlantic due to the rapid melting of the Greenland ice cap, which is happening as we speak, and at a far greater rate than predicted. The glaciers are melting so rapidly that the melt water, rather than staying on the surface and trickling off slowly, is melting straight down through the ice cap to the bedrock below, and forming a lubricant layer which is allowing the cap to slide off the rock into the North Atlantic at an alarming rate. One reearcher, who had been gone from his camp for only a month on a short lecture tour, brought a PBS camera crew back to Greenland with him, and was visibly stunned when the helicopter arrived at what had been the location of his camp, and it was nowhere to be found. They eventually found it 5 miles from where it was supposed to be. The adjective "glacial" is used to express the epitome of slow movement. A speedy glacier wouldn't move 30 feet in 30 days, let alone 5 miles. The reason this is cause for concern to climatologists is that the thermohaline circulation component of the Atlantic Ocean currents, the subsurface currents that return cold water from the North Atlantic around Cape Horn and into the Indian and Pacific Oceans, where it wells up to the surface, is powered by the "meridional overturning circulation (MOC) which is itself driven by temperature and salinity alone as opposed to other factors such as the wind. Cold, saline water sinks to the Atlantic's abyssal plains, and flows south, replaced by the north-flowing current commonly known as the Gulf Stream, which cools the South Atlantic and Gulf of Mexico by moving the jeat north, where it simultaneously moderates the temperatures of the northeast US and eastern Canada and to a large extent those of northwest Europe. The introduction of large amounts of less dense fresh melt water into this area of the North Atlantic, is believed to have slowed the MOC sufficiently 12,900 years ago to create the Younger Dryas period, a mini ice age that took effect in the above areas abruptly (in less than a decade), lasted until 11,500 years ago, created a population bottleneck, and set civilization back. It would have much the same effect now, because despite our technology, you cxan't have civilization without settlements, and you can't have settlements without agriculture. If the northeast is having a mini ice age, and the south and midwest are in permanent drought, where are we going to grow food? And don't tell me Canada. The Laurentian ice sheet of the last major glacial period scraped Canada clean of most of its topsoil, most of which ended up in Iowa, Illinois, Indiana, and Ohio. In fact, 10% of the world's richest topsoil is in Iowa.

You talk about the cost of cap and trade and the ruin of the economy. What the hell do you think is going to happen when catastrophic climate change bites us in the ass? For years, the Pentagon has been computer gaming scenarios for wars fought not for ideology or power, but for food and water. There is no surrender for that kind of war...it's a fight to the death.

Grow a clue.

silly liberal....you confuse the fact of a changing climate with the liberal myth that humans have caused it.....if you aren't aware what the argument is about, you ought not engage in the debate.....
 
Being cooped up really antagonizes your verbosity eh zoom?

A refutation



The scientific consensus is that global climate change is not only real, but presents a mortal danger to civilization as we know it. Last winter, when most of North America was having colder than usual weather (like snow inHouston), the climatically-challenged went nuts, with much wailing, gnashing of teeth , and rending of garments (my personal favorite), that this proved global climate change was false. Sigh. Once more into the breach.

It proved nothing of the sort. A cooling effect in one part of the world does not only not disprove global warming, but is an inevitable byproduct of it. Global warming does not entail that the entire globe warms uniformly, only that the annual mean temperature of the earth will be warmer, and in fact, due to regional differences in climatic engines, some areas of the earth will be significantly colder, but will be overbalanced by the regions that become catastrophically warmer. For example, while Houston was having snow, it was above freezing in Alaska, northern Canada, and Russia/Siberia, to the point where the permafrost is thawing, Moscow in February was 45 degrees F (compared to a normal February in that part of the world, with highs between -20 F and -10 F). Do the math, kids. Houston is 15-20 degrees colder while Moscow is 55-65 degrees warmer. Not good, especially considering there is a huge frozen peat bog in Siberia that is no longer frozen, and is beginning to release billions of tons of once-trapped methane into the atmosphere. Methane is an even more potent greenhouse gas than CO2.

Okay, let's look a two of the predicted effects of global warming: unstable weather, with more frequent and more violent storms. Why? Visualize a pot of water on the stove at room temp: still and calm with no more than the usual convective movement as the room temp varies with the seasons or normal daily solar warming, and nighttime cooling. Now, turn on the burner, and add energy to the closed system. Suddenly, you have a who shitload of convective movement as the body of water strives to reach equilibrium. The same thing is happening to our atmosphere.

The other thing the models are predicting is the partial desalinization of the North Atlantic due to the rapid melting of the Greenland ice cap, which is happening as we speak, and at a far greater rate than predicted. The glaciers are melting so rapidly that the melt water, rather than staying on the surface and trickling off slowly, is melting straight down through the ice cap to the bedrock below, and forming a lubricant layer which is allowing the cap to slide off the rock into the North Atlantic at an alarming rate. One reearcher, who had been gone from his camp for only a month on a short lecture tour, brought a PBS camera crew back to Greenland with him, and was visibly stunned when the helicopter arrived at what had been the location of his camp, and it was nowhere to be found. They eventually found it 5 miles from where it was supposed to be. The adjective "glacial" is used to express the epitome of slow movement. A speedy glacier wouldn't move 30 feet in 30 days, let alone 5 miles. The reason this is cause for concern to climatologists is that the thermohaline circulation component of the Atlantic Ocean currents, the subsurface currents that return cold water from the North Atlantic around Cape Horn and into the Indian and Pacific Oceans, where it wells up to the surface, is powered by the "meridional overturning circulation (MOC) which is itself driven by temperature and salinity alone as opposed to other factors such as the wind. Cold, saline water sinks to the Atlantic's abyssal plains, and flows south, replaced by the north-flowing current commonly known as the Gulf Stream, which cools the South Atlantic and Gulf of Mexico by moving the jeat north, where it simultaneously moderates the temperatures of the northeast US and eastern Canada and to a large extent those of northwest Europe. The introduction of large amounts of less dense fresh melt water into this area of the North Atlantic, is believed to have slowed the MOC sufficiently 12,900 years ago to create the Younger Dryas period, a mini ice age that took effect in the above areas abruptly (in less than a decade), lasted until 11,500 years ago, created a population bottleneck, and set civilization back. It would have much the same effect now, because despite our technology, you cxan't have civilization without settlements, and you can't have settlements without agriculture. If the northeast is having a mini ice age, and the south and midwest are in permanent drought, where are we going to grow food? And don't tell me Canada. The Laurentian ice sheet of the last major glacial period scraped Canada clean of most of its topsoil, most of which ended up in Iowa, Illinois, Indiana, and Ohio. In fact, 10% of the world's richest topsoil is in Iowa.

You talk about the cost of cap and trade and the ruin of the economy. What the hell do you think is going to happen when catastrophic climate change bites us in the ass? For years, the Pentagon has been computer gaming scenarios for wars fought not for ideology or power, but for food and water. There is no surrender for that kind of war...it's a fight to the death.

Grow a clue.
 
Back
Top