Is America a Christian nation?

Yakuda said:
The church of England was distinctly different from the Catholic church in all other euro countries at the time.
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Correct. All because the King of England wanted a divorce so, being King, he started his own religion.

Regardless, all are state religions; something the Founders wanted to avoid since many immigrating Americans had fled such countries due to choosing to worship differently than their home countries dictated.

The Chinese attacks on the Falun Gong is nothing new. It's what the Catholic and Anglican Church's did to Protestants with the support of their respective countries. What the Evangelistas are doing in the United States is the same; demanding all follow the rules of their religion or else.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Falun_Gong
The persecution of Falun Gong is the antireligious campaign initiated in 1999 by the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) to eliminate the spiritual practice of Falun Gong in China, maintaining a doctrine of state atheism.
 
martin said:
The partly true is slight. The foundation of the "nation" is The Constitution which is entirely secular.
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It is clear the founders wanted a Nation free from direct control by the Church, and they wanted the citizens free to practice or not practice religion as they saw fit.

The were all however of Christian Heritage, and used some "Christian" values. They used more greek philosophy than Christian Values, for sure.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Correct. All because the King of England wanted a divorce so, being King, he started his own religion.

Regardless, all are state religions; something the Founders wanted to avoid since many immigrating Americans had fled such countries due to choosing to worship differently than their home countries dictated.

The Chinese attacks on the Falun Gong is nothing new. It's what the Catholic and Anglican Church's did to Protestants with the support of their respective countries. What the Evangelistas are doing in the United States is the same; demanding all follow the rules of their religion or else.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Falun_Gong
The persecution of Falun Gong is the antireligious campaign initiated in 1999 by the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) to eliminate the spiritual practice of Falun Gong in China, maintaining a doctrine of state atheism.
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Right. That's a theocracy. That's what they didn't want hence the establishment clause.
 
Jarod said:
It is clear the founders wanted a Nation free from direct control by the Church, and they wanted the citizens free to practice or not practice religion as they saw fit.

The were all however of Christian Heritage, and used some "Christian" values. They used more greek philosophy than Christian Values, for sure.
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All were of "Christian heritage" but not all of them were Christians. Some were deists. The "Christian values" were mostly values common to everyone.
 
Yakuda said:
Good point but in Christianity Jesus is God, the creator, the word incarnate.
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But they did use the word "Jesus" the chose the MUCH more inclusive "Creator". Creator can, and did at the time, include nature. That was the influence of the deists.

You see, while they were "Christian" they went out of their way to be more inclusive in the foundation of the new nation. They chose to leave the door open to influences from any ideology that has a "Creator." They decidedly chose not to create an exclusively "Christian" nation.
 
Yakuda said:
Saying they didn't mention Jesus in the DOI means you didn't understand what you were responding to.
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You told Jarod he had a good point about "Creator" which is mentioned in the DOI. So effectively you destroyed your own argument about this being a Christian nation.
 
AProudLefty said:
There is no mention of Jesus in the DOI.
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TRUE the founders backed it up from only "Christ" and even further than "God" all the way to "Creator".

Christians believe in Christ, most religions believe in a "God", and many more (even many non-religious people) believe in a "Creator".
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Correct. All because the King of England wanted a divorce so, being King, he started his own religion.

Regardless, all are state religions; something the Founders wanted to avoid since many immigrating Americans had fled such countries due to choosing to worship differently than their home countries dictated.

The Chinese attacks on the Falun Gong is nothing new. It's what the Catholic and Anglican Church's did to Protestants with the support of their respective countries. What the Evangelistas are doing in the United States is the same; demanding all follow the rules of their religion or else.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Falun_Gong
The persecution of Falun Gong is the antireligious campaign initiated in 1999 by the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) to eliminate the spiritual practice of Falun Gong in China, maintaining a doctrine of state atheism.
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Do not forget about Martin Luther and his 99 Thesis, German Protestantism came from something other than a divorce but intectualitism.
 
Jarod said:
TRUE the founders backed it up from only "Christ" and even further than "God" all the way to "Creator".

Christians believe in Christ, most religions believe in a "God", and many more (even many non-religious people) believe in a "Creator".
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Right but most of the founders were christian and believed that the God of the bible was the creator. Just because someone else believes in a different version of creator they didn't found a nation the mostly Christian founders did and that Christianity formed their vision of the creator.
 
Yakuda said:
Correct. Calling america a christian nation doesn't make nut a theocracy
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True, but there are many RWers on JPP and Fox News who dance with the idea that Christianity should be the law of the land...just like Sarah Palin once voiced:

https://www.theledger.com/story/opinion/letters/2010/05/19/sarah-palins-repetition/26271181007/
Sarah Palin has recently once again enjoined us to: "Go back to what our founders and our founding documents meant - they're quite clear - that we would create law based on the God of the Bible and the Ten Commandments."

Call it whatever you like, but that's a theocratic government.
 
Yakuda said:
Right but most of the founders were christian and believed that the God of the bible was the creator. Just because someone else believes in a different version of creator they didn't found a nation the mostly Christian founders did and that Christianity formed their vision of the creator.
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Only some of them were Christians, All of them were of Christian Heratiage.

It is clear that they chose to intentionally create a nation to be inclusive of ideas and values way beyond their own background of Christianity. They founded a decidedly more inclusive nation beyond Christianity.

To say they intended to found a "Christian Nation" is a slap in the face of what they clearly took an effort not to create.

I am of "Christian Heritage" but I when I create something, it is not necessarily "Christian". Ghandi was a Hindu, was the pacifist movement used by Dr. Martin Luthor King "Hindu Pacifism"?
Did Gandhi create Pacifism or "Hindu Pacifism"?

Henry Ford was of "Christian Heritage" did he mass produce the Car, or the "Christian Car"?

THomas Edison was of "Christian Heritage", do we use "Christian Lightbulb's?
 
Dutch Uncle said:
True, but there are many RWers on JPP and Fox News who dance with the idea that Christianity should be the law of the land...just like Sarah Palin once voiced:

https://www.theledger.com/story/opinion/letters/2010/05/19/sarah-palins-repetition/26271181007/
Sarah Palin has recently once again enjoined us to: "Go back to what our founders and our founding documents meant - they're quite clear - that we would create law based on the God of the Bible and the Ten Commandments."

Call it whatever you like, but that's a theocratic government.
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"True..." is all that's relevant to what I said. Thank you
 
Yakuda said:
"True..." is all that's relevant to what I said. Thank you
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You're free to cherry-pick what you like and run from the consequences. It's very common among the poorly educated and geezers.

IMO, it's a display of Free Will; some people choose to run rather than face the truth. Free will. Their choice.
 
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