Florida book bans - the first step before burning

Dutch Uncle said:
Ronald Reagan once said "If you serve a child a rotten hamburger in America, federal, state, and local agencies will investigate you, summon you, close you down, whatever. But if you provide a child with a rotten education, nothing happens, except that you're liable to be given more money to do it with. Well, we've discovered that money alone isn't the answer."

Over 40 years later, that's still true.

From your link: "Overall, there are at least 36,500 vacant positions along with 163,000 underqualified individuals filling teaching positions across the United States," Nguyen said. "These vacancies represent 1.67% of teaching positions nationwide, with about 5.16% of positions held by underqualified school district employees."

Why don't Americans want to be teachers? Here is one partial answer; burnout....along with poor pay and too much bullshit on the job.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/22/tea...f-a-burnout-crisis-it-became-intolerable.html
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The state of Michigan is even running ads on local TV to encourage h.s. students to enter the field.

This shit in FL is a good example of why mixing politics with teaching is a very bad idea.
 
I find it so amusing that someone is upset that I had a successful teaching career.....( License and Certification....Professional Education of the Handicapped K-12...Developmentally Handicapped...K-12 (195120) ) just FYI...;)
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Care to make a wager on the November 2024 election? I'm thinking Republican President and the Democrats take back the House plus keep the Senate....both with a very narrow margin.

Why the narrow margin? Because it's not the Democrats or Republicans who determine elections. The largest voting block of American voters determines elections: Independents who recognize that both parties put party politics first and national interests second.

Take a look at the political extremists on JPP to see why Independents aren't happy with their authoritarian, self-serving agendas.
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LOL. Predictions are so much fun.

I'm not faulting you for pointing out (ad nauseum) that history shows a big win for Republicans in the past mid terms would occur. Sometimes, the educated among us surprise us at the ballot box.

The trick is to inspire people to vote. Hillary/Sanders issues caused kids to just stay home due to lack of inspiration coupled with Sanders' fueled spite.

Then they realized the folly of ignoring the warnings that the Supreme Court was at stake in the '16 election. Too little, too late. It will be very easy to convince this demographic that a rogue Supreme Court will back a national book ban, along with further restrictions on abortion.

I expect D.Santis to run on a national abortion ban.

How do you expect that to play?
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
Yep. Well, more teachers for us, less for them. In just a few short years, we'll see the results of FL's War on Education. Their h.s. graduates will have difficulty getting hired for any but unskilled jobs, and those who want further education will have trouble getting into the better colleges and universities.

But on a more positive note, Disney won't have to import foreign workers to staff their theme parks. lol
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You are right, except for maybe the last part. I could be wrong, but I believe Disney requires a high school diploma, even for foreign "guest" workers. If Florida can no longer produce workers with even a high school education...
 
Althea said:
Yes. That's been coming for decades. When I was in school in NYC, and teachers were allowed to put their hands on students, you didn't dare tell your parents or you would get a real beating for being bad in class.


Now, teachers who contact parents over concerns about homework or preparation for class, get pushback from parents (who are probably illiterate) that refuse to believe the problem lies with their kid.

I think it started gradually with latchkey kids. With the necessity of 2 income households, nobody was home to push kids to do schoolwork, or help kids with work that they didn't quite grasp during the school day. That's the best case scenario. Inner city schools just became a free for all.
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Agreed that latchkey kids was part of it but would go back a little further to Dr. Spock and his "progressive" method of raising children. I view 1/6 as the result of overly indulgent parents, a deteriorating school system, the lack of a draft and Americans who feel their rights trump the rights of all other Americans. In short, they're spoiled rotten.

On the two income family theory; it depends. Many appear to be middle-class families with the mother desiring her own career, two late model cars in the two-car garage of a 2,500 sq ft 3-4 bedroom, three-bath house and large screen TV. High standards of living require high standards of pay. When parents are working high pressure, 60 hour per week jobs to pay for a high-cost lifestyle, there's less time for families.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Spock
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
The state of Michigan is even running ads on local TV to encourage h.s. students to enter the field.

This shit in FL is a good example of why mixing politics with teaching is a very bad idea.
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The reason for aggression against teachers, is that they tend to be Left leaning. Union busting issues, coupled with budget cuts by Republicans are two reasons for that reality.

Republicans want to push kids out of public education, and into for profit (Republican donor) charter schools.
 
Althea said:
Yes. That's been coming for decades. When I was in school in NYC, and teachers were allowed to put their hands on students, you didn't dare tell your parents or you would get a real beating for being bad in class.


Now, teachers who contact parents over concerns about homework or preparation for class, get pushback from parents (who are probably illiterate) that refuse to believe the problem lies with their kid.

I think it started gradually with latchkey kids. With the necessity of 2 income households, nobody was home to push kids to do schoolwork, or help kids with work that they didn't quite grasp during the school day. That's the best case scenario. Inner city schools just became a free for all.
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I actually had a teacher burst into tears on the phone once. She had called to let me know some offense the younger of my two sons had committed in class (this was grade school). I apologized on his behalf and promised that we would talk to him, and have him also apologize to her the next day. She cried, and said that one of the worst parts of her job was informing a parent of something their kid had done, and being attacked for it. He's 41 now, so this has been going on for a long time. BTW, that was a typical majority-white suburban school district, not an urban one. It was also in a conservative suburb, if that has any connection to why other parents thought of teachers as the enemy.
 
Althea said:
You can earn more at Walmart than you can in education in some Red states.
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Oh I agree that salaries need to be better ...I made around $10,000 my first year in teaching and after 30 years was making much less than a professional with 30 years of experience in another profession... but I didnt go into teaching for the money (no one does...)... both of my parents were teachers... I knew what was up..;)
 
Althea said:
You can earn more at Walmart than you can in education in some Red states.
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Yep. When my youngest graduated with her masters in special ed, her first teaching job (in Missouri) paid less than what they are paying nursing home CNAs here (rural Michigan).
 
Dutch Uncle said:
On the two income family theory; it depends. Many appear to be middle-class families with the mother desiring her own career, two late model cars in the two-car garage of a 2,500 sq ft 3-4 bedroom, three-bath house and large screen TV. High standards of living require high standards of pay. When parents are working high pressure, 60 hour per week jobs to pay for a high-cost lifestyle, there's less time for families.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Spock
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Precisely. When we discuss latchkey kids, it's part of the discussion re. a higher standard of living this nation experienced after WW2. I think the two income households really took root in the late 60's/early 70's.
 
Walt said:
Yes, there are a bunch of white men who are unemployable. I agree with that. It is an epidemic.
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that post was specifically in the context of people let go for not getting vaxxed.

you played up the racial angle, because you're a racist.

as you have just now demonstrated again.
:truestory:
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
Yep. When my youngest graduated with her masters in special ed, her first teaching job (in Missouri) paid less than what they are paying nursing home CNAs here (rural Michigan).
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Because we place little value on education in many states. Budget issues typically make it hard for a teacher to get full time, guaranteed positions when they start out. 'Tenure' is a 4 letter word.
 
TOP said:
They always have the option to leave... but good teachers will not quit...
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It is a fact that if you treat people like shit, most will quit. There might be a few independently wealthy teachers, willing to be banned from teaching in the classroom, willing to stay as teachers, but most will leave.

Good teachers will be among the first ones to leave. They will feel the restrictions first. And they will have the most options. With salaries going up everywhere but teaching, leaving teaching is looking better and better.

TOP said:
They're a teacher shortages everywhere... because it's a really difficult job...
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No teacher shortage in Finland. No teacher shortage in many countries. If you offer a good salary, then the teachers will appear.
 
Althea said:
Republicans/Democrats do not decide elections. Thankfully
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Correct; the Independents do. The ~30% Republican voters will vote Republican, the ~30% Democrat voters will vote Democrat, and the 40% of Independents will decide the election be it local, state or national.
 
TOP said:
Oh I agree that salaries need to be better ...I made around $10,000 my first year in teaching and after 30 years was making much less than a professional with 30 years of experience in another profession... but I didnt go into teaching for the money (no one does...)... both of my parents were teachers... I knew what was up..;)
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Low pay is one thing. Low pay coupled with horrid working conditions is another. Most social workers make almost nothing, but are dedicated. It is almost impossible to get a feeling of accomplishment in a school now.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
I actually had a teacher burst into tears on the phone once. She had called to let me know some offense the younger of my two sons had committed in class (this was grade school). I apologized on his behalf and promised that we would talk to him, and have him also apologize to her the next day. She cried, and said that one of the worst parts of her job was informing a parent of something their kid had done, and being attacked for it. He's 41 now, so this has been going on for a long time. BTW, that was a typical majority-white suburban school district, not an urban one. It was also in a conservative suburb, if that has any connection to why other parents thought of teachers as the enemy.
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You would be in the vast minority today. I was in NYC schools until 3rd grade.

Back when a city school education far exceeded that of the suburbs. I was at least 1 year ahead in class when we moved to the burbs. In the city, I was physically/mentally abused by more than one teacher. Of course, the abuse was worse at home, but I digress.

Somewhere the attitude shifted to blaming teachers for the failures at home. Overcrowding created scenarios where teachers couldn't possibly cover everything to the extent necessary during the day, so parental input was important.

My stepson was the valedictorian of his high school class. When he was in grammar school, there were rare times that he didn't quite grasp the day's lesson and I had to work on it with him. If he told me that something wasn't fully covered, then something wasn't fully covered.

With a support system at home, it isn't an issue the next day in class.

Said support system doesn't exist in many homes now.
 
Althea said:
Precisely. When we discuss latchkey kids, it's part of the discussion re. a higher standard of living this nation experienced after WW2. I think the two income households really took root in the late 60's/early 70's.
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Agreed. Why? IMO, because we're a very commercial, very consumerist society. The commonality of television was a quantum leap in pushing Americans to become shallow, consumerist and money-hungry citizens who defined their worth in terms of their bank account and possessions. JPP members constantly talk about "traditional values" and the Founders yet almost all put the value of money at the top of their list as opposed to these values: https://i.imgflip.com/6rwunm.jpg

I love the Jared commercials around Christmastime since they epitomize the mindset: If you love someone, buy them expensive jewelry. If you're a loser who doesn't love them, then don't buy them jewelry.

https://dp.la/exhibitions/radio-golden-age/radio-tv
The 1950s signaled a change in the Golden Age of radio, with the development and quick popularity of the home television set.
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