We can't afford NOT TO do single payer health care

[SmarterthanYou]

Everyone has different reasons.

Doctors would probably profit more in a M4A system because they won't have nearly as high administrative costs as they do now.

and the proposed medicare for all covers all these costs, right?

 

[LV426]

because it's a scam

Right, I agree.

For-profit health insurance is a total scam.

It is an extraneous part of the health care system that only harms patient outcomes.

The reason is simply because of the profit motive.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

Right, I agree.

For-profit health insurance is a total scam.

It is an extraneous part of the health care system that only harms patient outcomes.

The reason is simply because of the profit motive.

here's the part you're either ignoring or are not able to see......

medicare for all, single payer, whatever you want to call it, is going to need to keep its costs down.........in order to do that, it will inevitably implement cost controls........which will lower the profit margins of hospitals and doctors and pharmaceuticals.....which will eat in to shareholder profits, owner profits, private profits, and worker wages............

 

[zymurgy]

How is government insurance making someone "subservient"?

What are you even trying to say here? Is this yet another example of you trying to sound smart but in reality, you're just an incredible dumbass?

you are such a fucking moron

we saw firsthand how employees became subservient to employers by making healthcare an employment perk - which the idiot left brought to American BTW with your constant fucking around with tax codes to try to control consumer activity and pretend to care about inflation

You fools have no insight - or solutions. You continue to fuck everything up because you are economic retards

 

[LV426]

how much did it cost them? how much did medicare cover?

It didn't cost them anything because it's funded by payroll taxes.

Medicare was introduced with Parts A and B. So that's what it covered...whatever parts A & B cover, that's what Medicare covered to start. Obviously it has been expanded over the years to include Part C and D. And then Part D was reformed by the ACA to eliminate the donut hole in prescription drug coverage.

and unless you're trying to hide the fact that you're going to require every single one of those health care providers to work for free, it has to be paid for.......who is going to pay for it?

They're not working for free, they get reimbursed...just like they do now.

What makes you think those people will work for free in that system?

How it's paid for is laid out IN THE OP.

So go back to the first post on this thread and re-read it to find out how M4A is funded.

 

[LV426]

lets boil this down to a simple question..........would you trust trump to run medicare with honesty and integrity?

Well Trump wouldn't run it, the Center for Medicare Systems and Services would since they already do and have for 60 years.

 

[Ross Dolan]

doctors are going to want to make profits. hospitals are going to need to make profits. nurses and technicians are going to want profitable salaries. pharmaceuticals are going to want to profit. you cannot get rid of profits.

Is the 'medicare for all' plan intended to eliminate all private health insurance and big pharma?

What "profits" do police forces make?

What "profits" do the United States Army make?

What "profits" do paid fire departments make?

What profits does the CDC make?

What profits does the Department of Justice make?

 

[SmarterthanYou]

It didn't cost them anything because it's funded by payroll taxes.

Medicare was introduced with Parts A and B. So that's what it covered...whatever parts A & B cover, that's what Medicare covered to start. Obviously it has been expanded over the years to include Part C and D. And then Part D was reformed by the ACA to eliminate the donut hole in prescription drug coverage.




They're not working for free, they get reimbursed...just like they do now.

What makes you think those people will work for free in that system?

How it's paid for is laid out IN THE OP.

So go back to the first post on this thread and re-read it to find out how M4A is funded.

so we end up with healthcare provided by gov bureaucrats who dictate medical treatments, price controls because it's paid for with taxes, and salary controls........which covers everything I said it would do.......you're just changing it from private to government and worsening or destroying the healthcare industry. congrats.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

What "profits" do police forces make?

What "profits" do the United States Army make?

What "profits" do paid fire departments make?

What profits does the CDC make?

What profits does the Department of Justice make?

once again you're ignoring the corruption component............you're also not taking in to account the worker salary issue. those people will not work a job that is not making them money to prosper.

 

[Yakuda]

It also changes the goal because under a M4A system, the goal isn't to make a profit...the goal is to improve patient outcomes which isn't the goal of our current system.

Again I don't see profit as the enemy of healthcare

 

[LV426]

they said that about obamacare.........mine doubled.

Did they double because of the ACA or did they double because you're 12 years older now and thus, are a higher risk patient than before?

Also, don't you have VA care? VA care has the highest patient satisfaction rating of any insurance provider. This is a little bit outdated, from 2015, but I doubt much has changed since:

Gallup: Americans With Government Health Plans Most Satisfied

 

[Yakuda]

It absolutely 100% is and I'll tell you how very simply: Insurance companies make money by denying your claims.

That's not the same as profit.

 

[LV426]

The U.S. ranked first in Science & Technology related to medical innovation

Great! That won't change in M4A since M4A is about health care delivery, not innovation.

 

[Yakuda]

Everyone

Incorrect.

 

[LV426]

The entire world would suffer if America listened to the moron class and removed profits from healthcare

Why would medical innovation be affected by a single payer system since medical innovation has nothing to do with health care administration?

This is what I'm talking about when I say you are a lot fucking dumber than you think you are.

 

[zymurgy]

Great! That won't change in M4A since M4A is about health care delivery, not innovation.

you removed our incentive to risk time and treasure to innovate - it will absolutely hurt us in the long run as you want to take profits out of the equation

 

[Yakuda]

The patients.

That is who would be the doctor's customer...THE PATIENTS.

If all providers are reimbursed at the same rates for the same procedures and treatment, then the competitive free market shifts to the actual physicians. So doctors would have to compete for your care instead of insurance companies forcing you into a provider network. That would only improve patient outcomes because the doctor would need to be good at their job in order to attract customers (patients).

You also have the ability to "shop around" to find the best doctor for you. Right now, you don't have that freedom. You might think you have the best doctor, but what is your frame of reference? How do you know you like your doctor if you haven't had the chance to comparatively shop for one?

Isn't it more freedom to be able to go to any doctor you want? You can't under the current system (unless you want to pay for treatment outside your provider network), but you can under M4A.

No not at all. The customer and the patient are not the same thing. As long as someone other than the patient is paying the doctor then the patient is not the customer. That's true if it's the govt or an insurance company.

 

[LV426]

so this medicare for all is not going to implement price controls?

It will simply have one reimbursement rate for everyone, and then it's up to the doctors to provide the best care in order to attract the most patients to stay profitable and in business.

A M4A system makes patient outcomes the sole priority.

M4A is actually more capitalist than the current system because it removes all barriers and provider networks, freeing you up to go to whatever doctor you want to go to.

Don't you like freedom? I'm confused because you said you do, but you don't want the freedom to pick your own doctor?

 

[zymurgy]

Why would medical innovation be affected by a single payer system since medical innovation has nothing to do with health care administration?

This is what I'm talking about when I say you are a lot fucking dumber than you think you are.

you are just too dumb to understand the human equation after you introduce price fixing

 

[SmarterthanYou]

Did they double because of the ACA or did they double because you're 12 years older now and thus, are a higher risk patient than before?

they doubled 2 years after implementation. my health for my age is exemplary.

Also, don't you have VA care? VA care has the highest patient satisfaction rating of any insurance provider. This is a little bit outdated, from 2015, but I doubt much has changed since:

Gallup: Americans With Government Health Plans Most Satisfied

I don't know why they keep pulling up that bullshit poll, but it is not true. I don't know a single vet that loves their VA care. I do not have VA care and wouldn't want it.