obama won't accept current war options for afghanistan

[Damocles]

Where'd you come up with the "troop lives as a motivator" schtick?

Read the thread, Nigel. It's right about the part where you started responding to me that I first brought it up. It isn't a "schtick" it is my opinion on what he is doing. Rather than produce even the least number they asked for he has rejected making any decision at all until they come up with what he wants, all the while troop deaths increase.

He is playing political hardball with the lives of the troops, and it sickens me.

 

[Jarod]

You have got to be kidding, you are far beyond your normal level of deliberate ignorance today.

You first try to pretend like I never criticized Bush for the wars, and now this? Get over yourself.

I said you never critized him for troop levels in Afganistan, what you are crying about with Obama now!

 

[evince]

Obama has been meeting with the generals. Presumably he listened to their advice and comments at the meetings. However, Obama hasn't acted on any advice yet, so how can you say he's a liar until something actually happens?

Thank God he's flying like a dove. We don't need the bellicosity of another crazy hawk defining us.

Yeah Baby, that idiotic cowboy deploymacy gets way too many Americans killed for nothing.

 

[Damocles]

I said you never critized him for troop levels in Afganistan, what you are crying about with Obama now!

The general in Afghanistan never suggested we were losing because of the levels in Afghanistan during that time, but that didn't stop me from criticizing him about it.

I said, repeatedly, that if you are going to do this, ignoring how stupid it is, whether it is Afghanistan or Iraq you have to provide security for the people you are trying to help, and to do that you need (can you guess what I will say next?) MORE TROOPS.

You are outrightly pretending to "forget" things you know to be true because you want to be right so badly it doesn't matter what you give up for it.

 

[Cancel 2018. 3]

Yurt Bush fired generals for suggesting more troops and it took him years to increase the troop levels in Iraq. He starved Afganistan his entire time in office and you cheered his "desiding" at every turn.

Obama moved troops to Afganistan in an attempt to make progress. Now I think he is facing the facts that Bush so screwed up OUR Military, the will of the people and the country itself that there is no good Military outcome to be had with our current state of military preparedness.

Were fucked and you and Bush did the fucking.

not true....

according to you and the generals and afgans.....it was obama's weak troop "surge" that lead to more US deaths....

any rational mind can see that it was in fact obama's CIC decisions that caused more US troops deaths, thus, by any reasonable thinking, obama failed to send the proper amount of troops....

fact : iraq, bush dithered on sending more troops, iraq remained a fuck up....bush finally sends more troops, a proper amount and the death toll goes down

fact: obama is dithering in afghanstan is thus far fucking it up

 

[Jarod]

The general in Afghanistan never suggested we were losing because of the levels in Afghanistan during that time, but that didn't stop me from criticizing him about it.

I said, repeatedly, that if you are going to do this, ignoring how stupid it is, whether it is Afghanistan or Iraq you have to provide security for the people you are trying to help, and to do that you need (can you guess what I will say next?) MORE TROOPS.

Obama is not considering keeping troop levels low.... He is considering plans for the future of this war. He is taking his time with the decision, I respect that... He is also not worrying about politics or he would have already announced something to shut the haters up.

During the last three weeks the situation has been changing rapidly. I belive it is smart to wait a bit!

 

[evince]

He is doing more than taking his time he is taking in all the evidence, advice and pondering the results of any action.

The wrong decision will mean many more lives lost.

 

[Bonestorm]

Read the thread, Nigel. It's right about the part where you started responding to me that I first brought it up. It isn't a "schtick" it is my opinion on what he is doing. Rather than produce even the least number they asked for he has rejected making any decision at all until they come up with what he wants, all the while troop deaths increase.

He is playing political hardball with the lives of the troops, and it sickens me.

Well, you're entitled to you opinion, I guess, regardless of how unhinged from reality and disgusting it is. It's quite revealing that you attribute that sort of motive to the President. Then again, you've always been a typical Republican so I guess I'm not surprised.

 

[Damocles]

Obama is not considering keeping troop levels low.... He is considering plans for the future of this war. He is taking his time with the decision, I respect that... He is also not worrying about politics or he would have already announced something to shut the haters up.

During the last three weeks the situation has been changing rapidly. I belive it is smart to wait a bit!

And while he is "considering" our troops are dying. And he is also "considering" leaving because his "war of necessity" has become unpopular with the people who voted for him.

 

[Damocles]

Well, you're entitled to you opinion, I guess, regardless of how unhinged from reality and disgusting it is. It's quite revealing that you attribute that sort of motive to the President. Then again, you've always been a typical Republican so I guess I'm not surprised.

Which is exactly what I was saying, you are indeed entitled to your opinion even based in hackery and pretense as it is, that you think it is okay to play political hardball when it is actual lives on the line then IMO you are just looking in a mirror while saying this. You are just delusional enough to think you are looking at somebody else and that "somebody" is the "enemy".

Almost nothing has changed about what I say about this between the change of Presidents. I still recommend the same thing. If you are going to do this, ignoring how stupid it is, then do it right and give these people actual security and a chance to rebuild, otherwise you set them and us up for failure and more deaths than it will ever be worth.

 

[Jarod]

And while he is "considering" our troops are dying. And he is also "considering" leaving because his "war of necessity" has become unpopular with the people who voted for him.

Who has said he is considering leaving?

 

[Damocles]

Who has said he is considering leaving?

Me. And the general. It's poop or get off the pot time.

 

[evince]

Its get off the pot time because our military can not sustain the levels of force it would take to turn this arround.

Too many years and troops for us to muster with an unwilling populace.

We are a democracy and the people are the ones fighting, paying for and sacraficing in this war..

 

[Bonestorm]

Which is exactly what I was saying, you are indeed entitled to your opinion even based in hackery and pretense as it is, that you think it is okay to play political hardball when it is actual lives on the line then IMO you are just looking in a mirror while saying this. You are just delusional enough to think you are looking at somebody else and that "somebody" is the "enemy".

Almost nothing has changed about what I say about this between the change of Presidents. I still recommend the same thing. If you are going to do this, ignoring how stupid it is, then do it right and give these people actual security and a chance to rebuild, otherwise you set them and us up for failure and more deaths than it will ever be worth.

My opinion is that Obama should take time to consider the input of all of his advisors in light of the mission in Afghanistan and regional concerns as a general matter rather than rubber-stamping whatever the general tells him to do.

You apparently want Obama to just do whatever the general recommends and ascribe all sorts of evil motives (and terrible, yet fictitious consequences) to him not doing so in a timetable that suits your fancy.

 

[Damocles]

Its get off the pot time because our military can not sustain the levels of force it would take to turn this arround.

Too many years and troops for us to muster with an unwilling populace.

We are a democracy and the people are the ones fighting, paying for and sacraficing in this war..

That's possible. I don't think that is what will actually happen though. What I think will happen will be the "half measure" you see so often from the mediocre. We'll have a half-surge that will be unsuccessful as the general said it would be, and then a subsequent withdrawal. It will taste bitter.

 

[Bonestorm]

Me. And the general. It's poop or get off the pot time.

What General? I'm calling bullshit, again. Maybe I'll get a relevant response this time.

 

[evince]

MORE lives would be lost if this gets hurried into action and fails again like Bush tact did.

 

[Damocles]

My opinion is that Obama should take time to consider the input of all of his advisors in light of the mission in Afghanistan and regional concerns as a general matter rather than rubber-stamping whatever the general tells him to do.

You apparently want Obama to just do whatever the general recommends and ascribe all sorts of evil motives (and terrible, yet fictitious consequences) to him not doing so in a timetable that suits your fancy.

Again, that would be fine if he would provide enough troops to at least secure the area for the troops as he makes his decision. You are incapable of reading things that others write that fall outside your already foolish assumptions of them, eh?

I can live with that. Welcome to the board. We were needing some new lefties.

 

[evince]

That's possible. I don't think that is what will actually happen though. What I think will happen will be the "half measure" you see so often from the mediocre. We'll have a half-surge that will be unsuccessful as the general said it would be, and then a subsequent withdrawal. It will taste bitter.

You would have to increase troops for a withdrawl.

Its how you leave a situation like this, more people to protect the withdrawling troops.

 

[Damocles]

You would have to increase troops for a withdrawl.

Its how you leave a situation like this, more people to protect the withdrawling troops.

Only if you are retreating, which IMO will be necessary after the half-surge proves unsuccessful.

That is my prediction..

I hope I'll have to eat those words, but that is what I believe is coming down that pipe.