Defunding the government harms national security

[PostmodernProphet]

Defunding the government harms national security

remember when the demmycrats told us that reducing spending wasn't "defunding"?.......

 

[PostmodernProphet]

may I suggest we cut spending for everything by 5% except illegal aliens.....that we should cut by 100%.......

 

[Dutch Uncle]

No, but the Department of Education and Health and Human Services will do their part to make sure they are poorly educated and in ill health...

Maybe we should stop importing so many illegals. That'd be a start...

Congrats, Terry. You've officially attained geezerhood.

Obviously, you don't have any evidence since you didn't provide any. Did you get this opinion off a Tweet? Your friends on this forum or others? A Trump speech?

States have their own departments of education. It's not rocket science to appreciate that a state's or the entire nation's youth benefit the nation by being well educated. Like the US military, why wouldn't all states benefit from a central federal agency to coordinate both local and national problems?

Why are you and your Alt-Right friends so anxious to kill the Federal government?

https://tea.texas.gov/about-tea

The Texas Education Agency is the state agency that oversees primary and secondary public education. It is headed by the commissioner of education. The Texas Education Agency improves outcomes for all public school students in the state by providing leadership, guidance, and support to school systems.

https://www2.ed.gov/about/landing.jhtml

ED's mission is to promote student achievement and preparation for global competitiveness by fostering educational excellence and ensuring equal access.

ED was created in 1980 by combining offices from several federal agencies. ED's 4,400 employees and $68 billion budget are dedicated to:

• Establishing policies on federal financial aid for education, and distributing as well as monitoring those funds.
• Collecting data on America's schools and disseminating research.
• Focusing national attention on key educational issues.
• Prohibiting discrimination and ensuring equal access to education.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I run from providing evidence for my false accusations.

You're a schizo, Sybil. Admit it.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Congrats, Terry. You've officially attained geezerhood.

Obviously, you don't have any evidence since you didn't provide any. Did you get this opinion off a Tweet? Your friends on this forum or others? A Trump speech?

States have their own departments of education. It's not rocket science to appreciate that a state's or the entire nation's youth benefit the nation by being well educated. Like the US military, why wouldn't all states benefit from a central federal agency to coordinate both local and national problems?

Why are you and your Alt-Right friends so anxious to kill the Federal government?

https://tea.texas.gov/about-tea


https://www2.ed.gov/about/landing.jhtml

RTFT

If ignorance is bliss you must be deliriously happy. See post 5. Also we're discussing the federal department of education, not state level ones. You must have missed that part too.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

You are speaking to a person, in Terry, who says there should be no healthcare insurance for the middle class and below, and if they need care, they should have the discipline to have enough savings to get it or not get any care at all.

That's a silly position for any responsible American to take which is why I believe Terry is no longer responsible for his choices in life.

Obviously our nation benefits from healthy, educated citizens gainfully employed and knowledgeable enough about both state and national issues to make good decisions at the voting booth.

Terry and his friends want to strip every one of their rights in order to impose a white nationalist government...just like the Good Ol' Days. Notice how they all line up on the side of bigotry, misogyny, education and health only for the elite, etc.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

RTFT

If ignorance is bliss you must be deliriously happy. See post 5. Also we're discussing the federal department of education, not state level ones. You must have missed that part too.

You're free to run from your own posts, Terry. I know you are having problems now.

The fact remains that if states benefit from a state department of education, it makes sense that, again like the military or NASA, they would benefit by having a national agency help them resolve problems beyond their scope.

You believe in burning down a building, or the entire national department, because of perceived problems. I believe in fixing any perceived problems. Like Obamacare, you and your fellow Trumpers only want to remove it but have given no thought on what you will replace it with. Trump promised something better but, after four years, he produced the same results you are doing, son.

What, exactly, is your problem with the Department of Education....or are you just doing as Rush bitched about for decades before croaking on cancer?

 

[AProudLefty]

How would ending say the Department of Education or Health and Human Services as two useless federal programs harm national security?

Idiocracy. Need I say more?

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Idiocracy. Need I say more?

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Idiocracy. Need I say more?

$20 he has nothing but a single emoji reply.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Oops. Too late.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Oops. Too late.

That's you in the purple shirt isn't it?

 

[Althea]

That in good part is an international problem, but is also in part an FDA problem. The international problem is many nations subsidize and regulate pharmaceuticals such that manufacturers and developers can't recoup their development costs for new drugs. So, new drugs are slower to come on the market in those countries meaning there's a much smaller base of countries where that cost is recouped-- the US being one of them--and drug costs for a decade or more are far higher for recently developed or small / niche market drugs.

The second issue in the US is regulatory. The FDA has such rigorous and demanding standards that it takes forever at great cost to get a drug to market. This is in part driven by our society being overly litigious. Again, rigorous testing and the high cost of potential lawsuits due to some unforeseen side effect drives the cost of development and getting a product to market sky high. Older, now off patent drugs are not so costly, but it can take decades to get to that point.

One thing that could be done is make all medical expenses 100% tax deductible. While not a panacea, it would be a start.

Fact: ROI is the driving factor in all aspects of drugs in this nation.

Fact: U.S sells the same drugs overseas at a fraction of what we pay.

Fact: Drugs that are off patent, but still necessary for things like cancer treatment, are not being produced because there is no money in it anymore.

Fact: Drugs/patents are sold all the time, with the new owner inflating costs due to profit motive. See epi pens a few years ago.

You can't argue against the Covid vaccine in one thread, and bash stringent FDA requirements in another. It's very common for drug makers to change up one inert ingredient in an off patent drug and bring it to market under another name at a higher price.

The only issue is that a for profit system for all phases of healthcare simply doesn't work.

 

[QP!]

Go for it. I have been very consistent on this since about 2000. Insurance should be gotten rid of for routine medical care. Insurance should only be used for major and catastrophic medical care. In fact, I have advocated that there should be a national catastrophic medical insurance plan everyone gets and that would eliminate roughly 80% of the rest of health insurance plans. The catastrophic plan would cover 100% of the costs of care but the deductible would be something like $20,000 + for a year before it kicked in and covered everything.

You want more coverage? Go for it. I even suggested a plan that allowed employers and employees to incentivize good health. None of that is new, and none of that has changed. I have never suggested we should do away with all health insurance.

Ok what term is the Av and Sig bet for? I say 6 months?

I will prove that in no way did you even suggest anything about this..." In fact, I have advocated that there should be a national catastrophic medical insurance plan everyone gets and that would eliminate roughly 80% of the rest of health insurance plans. The catastrophic plan would cover 100% of the costs of care but the deductible would be something like $20,000 + for a year before it kicked in and covered everything." and the ONLY thing you argued, even when i prompted you and asked how the middle class and poors would pay for care, was you saying some version of 'if they cannot be responsible to save up, too bad'.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Fact: ROI is the driving factor in all aspects of drugs in this nation.

That is the driving factor in developing them to begin with.

Fact: U.S sells the same drugs overseas at a fraction of what we pay.

Not all, but many. The primary reason is those countries won't let manufacturers recoup their development costs so the drugs often show up years after they are available in the US. Not always, but a lot of the time.

Fact: Drugs that are off patent, but still necessary for things like cancer treatment, are not being produced because there is no money in it anymore.

Not true. The become generics and secondary manufacturers do production.

Fact: Drugs/patents are sold all the time, with the new owner inflating costs due to profit motive. See epi pens a few years ago.

Okay, price gouging can and does occur, but that happens with many products, not just drugs.

You can't argue against the Covid vaccine in one thread, and bash stringent FDA requirements in another. It's very common for drug makers to change up one inert ingredient in an off patent drug and bring it to market under another name at a higher price.

I never have argued against Chinese Disease vaccines, only against their mandatory, forced use. You want one, great! You don't, great!

The only issue is that a for profit system for all phases of healthcare simply doesn't work.

Socialized medicine is unaffordable. Either you end up with shit systems like Mexico and Cuba have for the average citizen and private health care (Mexico) where you pay as you go is available to those with money, or you end up with very expensive, messed up, public health systems like the VA in the US or the NHS in England.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Ok what term is the Av and Sig bet for? I say 6 months?

I will prove that in no way did you even suggest anything about this..." In fact, I have advocated that there should be a national catastrophic medical insurance plan everyone gets and that would eliminate roughly 80% of the rest of health insurance plans. The catastrophic plan would cover 100% of the costs of care but the deductible would be something like $20,000 + for a year before it kicked in and covered everything." and the ONLY thing you argued, even when i prompted you and asked how the middle class and poors would pay for care, was you saying some version of 'if they cannot be responsible to save up, too bad'.

This was in response to someone writing a letter to the editor in the Arizona Republic dated July 16 2017

Hello Reginald,

Read your column on Obamacare in Sunday’s paper. Oh, what follows is completely polite. No diatribes, no insults. Wanted to get that out there up front. We gain nothing if we just shout at each other. I read your column, please read my response.
I won’t go through the history lesson of the government making a mess of health insurance and how we pay for health care in America. It’s really a moot point.
I also completely disagree with you on the ACA. Obamacare is a train wreck. It’s a big government solution to a problem that was generated and passed by idiots. That’s being polite, believe me. I sincerely doubt you or I would set up a business system that provides employees health insurance based on Obamacare.
Oh, I don’t care if Obamacare is popular or not. This isn’t high school and we aren’t voting on a class president…
The “death spiral” is real. It’s already visible to anyone who spends some time looking at what insurers are doing. Last year, here in Arizona we almost had one county (Pinal) without any plans on the Obamacare marketplace.
This year, we’re already looking at 40 to 200 counties nationwide that won’t have a plan, depending on who’s data you use. The big health insurers are jumping ship, that’s a fact. Blue Cross, Etna, and Humana, among others are fleeing the program. The smaller companies can’t take the losses even if they stay in the program. They’ll pull out too. Maybe not this year, but within a year or two they’ll be gone.
In Arizona, it’s entirely possible that for the FY 2018 open season only Maricopa and Pima counties will have an Obamacare plan available. That’s two of sixteen counties.
Of course, insurers want the ACA to continue and the government to guarantee their losses are covered. It’s a sure bet for them. They don’t give a rat’s patoot that people get crappy coverage so long as their bottom line is in the black. But, with Trump and the Republicans refusing to cover (illegally I might add due to the poor set up of Obamacare) those losses in full, the insurers are bailing.
Obamacare coverage is no better or worse than what people had previously. But, Obamacare does force one-size-fits-all coverage on people. You can’t have a “better” plan, or opt for minimal coverage. You get one type of policy and the deductible is the only variable.
So, if Obamacare is a disaster, what to do?
Well, the solution I suggest follows. Please read it. I spent a lot of time thinking it up, more than Congress has, that’s for sure. It involves getting government out of the way, making people responsible for their own health care costs, and gives crumbs to big insurers and the government to make them feel better they’re being kicked to the curb.
First, we make all health care expenses 100% tax deductible. Your personal health care costs are high? You can deduct all of them from your taxes. Why should the government be taxing people for trying to stay healthy?
Next, we expand the Individual Health Savings account program immensely. Money put into these accounts is pre-tax now. Second, the limit is taken off. You can stuff as much into one of these as you want.
If you take the cash out for health expenses, it’s tax free. If you take it out for something else (ie., you don’t direct pay a health provider by debit card or check) then you get it taxed as income.
For those who are low income and get things like EIC (Earned Income Credit) this money doesn’t go to the taxpayer directly but is instead deposited in their health care payment account to cover their costs up to a maximum amount of say $5,000. Once they hit that number, they get the EIC as a tax return just like now.
That means virtually everybody has a health care savings account. Better, we could make these earn some interest too. That’s for discussion.
We also make these accounts available to businesses. But, we do it a bit differently with these. Like the personal ones, each employee gets an account up to a limit of say $5,000 to $10,000. The exact amount isn’t critical here for discussion. The employer simply reimburses the employee for health costs as they occur and the employee reports them.
This system is easily implemented. Most employers already have companies managing employee pay, like ADP, due to the complexity of government regulations.
Now comes the sweet part for employees and employers. At the end of each year, the employer and employee are allowed to split the remaining funds in each account 50 – 50.
That means if the employer account is $5,000 per year and the employee doesn’t use the account they get a $2,500 bonus at the end of the year. The employer, likewise, gets a similar “bonus” to use towards reducing their costs next year on employee health care costs.
Now, to cover massive, costly health problems… That’s where insurers and the government come in. What we do is abolish Medicare / Medicade and replace it with a national catastrophic health insurance program with a $5,000 to $10,000 deductible. This might be higher or lower. Again, that’s for debate. But, everybody has this coverage.
That means hospitals will only be out the deductible for anybody they treat. That’s collectable if the individual doesn’t pay up front or make payments. They can live with that It also means almost anyone will be able to cover most or all of the deductible from their own pocket via their health spending account.
Thus, individuals can have their own spending account to pay for health care, employers and employees have a similar account they use together, and everybody gets covered for major medical disasters in their lives.
The government stops taxing people for paying for their health care, and insurers are running the catastrophic plans.
If someone wants more health insurance coverage, they’re free to pay for that too. You, the individual, get to pay for what you think you need in health care rather than have the government decide for you.
Well, that’s my plan. I think it’s a damn sight better than the semi-socialized medicine, one-size-fits-all government mandated Obamacare plan is any day of the week.

I've been very consistent on this on the subject of health insurance and paying for health care for decades.

 

[Althea]

Not all, but many. The primary reason is those countries won't let manufacturers recoup their development costs so the drugs often show up years after they are available in the US. Not always, but a lot of the time.

The issue is that we get raped. If they can sell overseas at a lower cost, then they can match prices here. Especially given the govt. subsidies.

Not true. The become generics and secondary manufacturers do production.

Not quite. Every road leads to profit motive.

https://healthpolicy.usc.edu/articl...et-vital-drugs-are-nearly-impossible-to-find/

Okay, price gouging can and does occur, but that happens with many products, not just drugs.

Right. You don't have to buy a new car every year. Millions cannot go without their meds.

Socialized medicine is unaffordable. Either you end up with shit systems like Mexico and Cuba have for the average citizen and private health care (Mexico) where you pay as you go is available to those with money, or you end up with very expensive, messed up, public health systems like the VA in the US or the NHS in England.

Every level of healthcare is driven by profit motive. Especially the insurance industry that pays dividends to investors.

Premiums could come down if the cost of meds was reduced.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

That's you in the purple shirt isn't it?

Remember how you used to always bemoan name-calling and tried to keep the conversation on an even keel, albeit leaning to starboard? I miss those days.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

This was in response to someone writing a letter to the editor in the Arizona Republic dated July 16 2017

Hello Reginald,

Read your column on Obamacare in Sunday’s paper. Oh, what follows is completely polite. No diatribes, no insults. Wanted to get that out there up front. We gain nothing if we just shout at each other. I read your column, please read my response.
I won’t go through the history lesson of the government making a mess of health insurance and how we pay for health care in America. It’s really a moot point.
I also completely disagree with you on the ACA. Obamacare is a train wreck. It’s a big government solution to a problem that was generated and passed by idiots. That’s being polite, believe me. I sincerely doubt you or I would set up a business system that provides employees health insurance based on Obamacare.
Oh, I don’t care if Obamacare is popular or not. This isn’t high school and we aren’t voting on a class president…
The “death spiral” is real. It’s already visible to anyone who spends some time looking at what insurers are doing. Last year, here in Arizona we almost had one county (Pinal) without any plans on the Obamacare marketplace.
This year, we’re already looking at 40 to 200 counties nationwide that won’t have a plan, depending on who’s data you use. The big health insurers are jumping ship, that’s a fact. Blue Cross, Etna, and Humana, among others are fleeing the program. The smaller companies can’t take the losses even if they stay in the program. They’ll pull out too. Maybe not this year, but within a year or two they’ll be gone.
In Arizona, it’s entirely possible that for the FY 2018 open season only Maricopa and Pima counties will have an Obamacare plan available. That’s two of sixteen counties.
Of course, insurers want the ACA to continue and the government to guarantee their losses are covered. It’s a sure bet for them. They don’t give a rat’s patoot that people get crappy coverage so long as their bottom line is in the black. But, with Trump and the Republicans refusing to cover (illegally I might add due to the poor set up of Obamacare) those losses in full, the insurers are bailing.
Obamacare coverage is no better or worse than what people had previously. But, Obamacare does force one-size-fits-all coverage on people. You can’t have a “better” plan, or opt for minimal coverage. You get one type of policy and the deductible is the only variable.
So, if Obamacare is a disaster, what to do?
Well, the solution I suggest follows. Please read it. I spent a lot of time thinking it up, more than Congress has, that’s for sure. It involves getting government out of the way, making people responsible for their own health care costs, and gives crumbs to big insurers and the government to make them feel better they’re being kicked to the curb.
First, we make all health care expenses 100% tax deductible. Your personal health care costs are high? You can deduct all of them from your taxes. Why should the government be taxing people for trying to stay healthy?
Next, we expand the Individual Health Savings account program immensely. Money put into these accounts is pre-tax now. Second, the limit is taken off. You can stuff as much into one of these as you want.
If you take the cash out for health expenses, it’s tax free. If you take it out for something else (ie., you don’t direct pay a health provider by debit card or check) then you get it taxed as income.
For those who are low income and get things like EIC (Earned Income Credit) this money doesn’t go to the taxpayer directly but is instead deposited in their health care payment account to cover their costs up to a maximum amount of say $5,000. Once they hit that number, they get the EIC as a tax return just like now.
That means virtually everybody has a health care savings account. Better, we could make these earn some interest too. That’s for discussion.
We also make these accounts available to businesses. But, we do it a bit differently with these. Like the personal ones, each employee gets an account up to a limit of say $5,000 to $10,000. The exact amount isn’t critical here for discussion. The employer simply reimburses the employee for health costs as they occur and the employee reports them.
This system is easily implemented. Most employers already have companies managing employee pay, like ADP, due to the complexity of government regulations.
Now comes the sweet part for employees and employers. At the end of each year, the employer and employee are allowed to split the remaining funds in each account 50 – 50.
That means if the employer account is $5,000 per year and the employee doesn’t use the account they get a $2,500 bonus at the end of the year. The employer, likewise, gets a similar “bonus” to use towards reducing their costs next year on employee health care costs.
Now, to cover massive, costly health problems… That’s where insurers and the government come in. What we do is abolish Medicare / Medicade and replace it with a national catastrophic health insurance program with a $5,000 to $10,000 deductible. This might be higher or lower. Again, that’s for debate. But, everybody has this coverage.
That means hospitals will only be out the deductible for anybody they treat. That’s collectable if the individual doesn’t pay up front or make payments. They can live with that It also means almost anyone will be able to cover most or all of the deductible from their own pocket via their health spending account.
Thus, individuals can have their own spending account to pay for health care, employers and employees have a similar account they use together, and everybody gets covered for major medical disasters in their lives.
The government stops taxing people for paying for their health care, and insurers are running the catastrophic plans.
If someone wants more health insurance coverage, they’re free to pay for that too. You, the individual, get to pay for what you think you need in health care rather than have the government decide for you.
Well, that’s my plan. I think it’s a damn sight better than the semi-socialized medicine, one-size-fits-all government mandated Obamacare plan is any day of the week.

I've been very consistent on this on the subject of health insurance and paying for health care for decades.

No link? IS this because you're a plagiarist or because you wrote it yourself?

 

[Althea]

No link? IS this because you're a plagiarist or because you wrote it yourself?

I was wondering the same. There's not much in there that merits an intelligent response.