plane hits building in Austin

Jarod said:
962,000,000,000....

That has to be paid some way.....

WHy do the cons whine and cry about money spent on text books for Americans and helping America's poor, but are cool voting for a war that does not benefit anyone and costs more than 962,000,000,000!

http://www.costofwar.com/
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Once again you are avoiding the topic by trying to make this a Lib versus Cons.

Yes it has to be paid somehow. How about everyone paying the same percentage of their income in taxes? How about making it fair for everyone, instead of just catering to the knee-jerk masses and lobbyists?

I have not said one thing about not spending money on textbooks or money for the poor. And lumping everyone who is opposed to our current tax system into one group and trying to tie them to the Iraq war is bullshit.
 
WinterBorn said:
Once again you are avoiding the topic by trying to make this a Lib versus Cons.

Yes it has to be paid somehow. How about everyone paying the same percentage of their income in taxes? How about making it fair for everyone, instead of just catering to the knee-jerk masses and lobbyists?

I have not said one thing about not spending money on textbooks or money for the poor. And lumping everyone who is opposed to our current tax system into one group and trying to tie them to the Iraq war is bullshit.
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We all have to pay for the Iraq boondogle.... It was a mistake the majority of Americans made, led by the Conservatives.

If we made everyone pay the same percentage of tax, that number would have to be so high it would end the existance of a middle class, solidify the rich as rich for many generations and make it almost impossable for a dedicated intelegent person who happened to be born poor to get out of the slums, while Johnny who is not dedicated and not smart will enjoy the spoils of his great great grandfather's riches while sitting around all day taking Oxycoten pills!
 
Jarod said:
If you reconize the error of your ways why go crazy for Sarah Palin who is still cheering the war...! Why pay her a $1000,000 speaking fee?

If you were for the war, step up and acknoledge it should be paid for, dont bitch about the national debt....

962,000,000,000
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Stay on topic please and stop trying to hijack the thread...:)
 
Jarod said:
I am sick of the whining about taxes 7 years after being so gung ho for spending 962,000,000,000 on the war in Iraq!
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Fine, then argue with the people who supported the war. In this thread that is not what you are doing.
 
Jarod said:
We all have to pay for the Iraq boondogle.... It was a mistake the majority of Americans made, led by the Conservatives.

If we made everyone pay the same percentage of tax, that number would have to be so high it would end the existance of a middle class, solidify the rich as rich for many generations and make it almost impossable for a dedicated intelegent person who happened to be born poor to get out of the slums, while Johnny who is not dedicated and not smart will enjoy the spoils of his great great grandfather's riches while sitting around all day taking Oxycoten pills!
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Wow...just wow. I completely disagree.
 
WinterBorn said:
No, what is sad is that you think people who want to keep the money that THEY EARN are greedy...
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He was greedy because he tried to use the Safe Harbor provision which was a tax break originally offered by the IRS but so many people abused it they changed the rules. As an employee he couldn't write off expenses like a "little business man" can. Why should he write off the gas and deprecation of his car and a dozen other things when the average Joe can't?

I am pissed that my gov't screws me over. And even more pissed that my fellow citizens think that its just fine for the gov't to do so. And even more pissed still that I am called greedy when I disagree with it.
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And I'm pissed when so-called entrepreneurs take advantage of the system just like he tried to do. All those hours he whines about having spent wasn't spent on engineering projects. He spent that time on trying to see how he could manipulate the system. Hours spent on how he could work less than than his fellow engineers and get more money. Hours spent on how he could rip off all the other taxpayers because he was special, more important, smarter than everyone else.

His greed was his downfall. Nothing else.

(I feel better now.) :)



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WinterBorn said:
No, what is sad is that you think people who want to keep the money that THEY EARN are greedy, but the politicians who continue to take more and more money from the people by force are somehow noble in their endeavors.

The tax money spent on road, police, education, and such are a tiny drop in the bucket. It is the huge amount of waste in the gov't spending that makes it hard to swallow.

If you were hungry and asked me for a few bucks to buy a meal, I would be happy to help you. But if you demanded that I buy you 3 steak dinners at a fancy restaurant and you only at 1 of them, I would be pissed.



And the fact that some people have to pay much greater percentages of their income while some pay little or no tax is what galls many of us.

I did not get to my present income because I demanded that someone else do shit for me. I got here by busting my ass. For that they tax my money when I earn it, when I spend it, while I save it, and then hide taxes in every step of the process of manufacturing and service so the prices are inflated.

I am not whining. I am pissed that my gov't screws me over. And even more pissed that my fellow citizens think that its just fine for the gov't to do so. And even more pissed still that I am called greedy when I disagree with it.
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Jarod said:
If we made everyone pay the same percentage of tax, that number would have to be so high it would end the existance of a middle class, solidify the rich as rich for many generations and make it almost impossable for a dedicated intelegent person who happened to be born poor to get out of the slums, while Johnny who is not dedicated and not smart will enjoy the spoils of his great great grandfather's riches while sitting around all day taking Oxycoten pills!
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That is totally wrong.

Study after study has shown that either a flat tax or a consumption tax could provide what we need without ruining anyone.

The studies that showed otherwise were almost all funded or done by companies who stand to lose a fortune if the tax laws change.

One of the great things about either a flat tax or consumption tax is that the politicians could no longer use taxes to punish their enemies or reward their friends. There would be no more selective taxation. Everyone would pay the same.



And if I bust my ass, save my money, and build up a sizeable financial bundle, why in the hell do you think you have a right to a piece of that bundle? Why do you think that I should not be able to provide for my family with the fruits of my own labors and creativity?

And there are more examples of people starting from nothing and becoming rich in a free market than any other system. And this nonsense of a 56k page tax code is harmful to that system.
 
Jarod said:
How many reading this thread were for Bush's Iraq war..... be honest!
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You are still trying to derail the thread away from thediscussion of our current tax system.

Ok, there is a huge debt from the war, the bailouts and the stimulus.

That still does not jsutify soaking the rich, having such a confusing and convoluted tax system, and making tax compliance cost so much.

Its pure nonsense.
 
WinterBorn said:
That is totally wrong.

Study after study has shown that either a flat tax or a consumption tax could provide what we need without ruining anyone.

The studies that showed otherwise were almost all funded or done by companies who stand to lose a fortune if the tax laws change.

One of the great things about either a flat tax or consumption tax is that the politicians could no longer use taxes to punish their enemies or reward their friends. There would be no more selective taxation. Everyone would pay the same.



And if I bust my ass, save my money, and build up a sizeable financial bundle, why in the hell do you think you have a right to a piece of that bundle? Why do you think that I should not be able to provide for my family with the fruits of my own labors and creativity?

And there are more examples of people starting from nothing and becoming rich in a free market than any other system. And this nonsense of a 56k page tax code is harmful to that system.
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1) I mostly disagree.

2) I do not belive that you should not be able to share the spoils of your labor with your family, but I belive that taking money from those working hard to earn it is less fair than taking money that someone inherited because there great great grandfahter worked hard or stole it!
 
Jarod said:
1) I mostly disagree.

2) I do not belive that you should not be able to share the spoils of your labor with your family, but I belive that taking money from those working hard to earn it is less fair than taking money that someone inherited because there great great grandfahter worked hard or stole it!
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There always seems to be the assumption that inherited wealth was stolen by their grandfather or great grandfather. And without any evidence to show it.

And as far as fair, why do you want to be "fair" to those with less, but do not seem at all concerned about being "fair" to those who have more??

Why should those working hard have a free ride for the roads, police, schools, and other things you mentioned earlier in this thread??

And the guy who flew his plane into the building was one of those working folks. And now you want to lighten his burden in favor of some vague idea that there are trust fund babies laying around doing drugs.
 
WinterBorn said:
There always seems to be the assumption that inherited wealth was stolen by their grandfather or great grandfather. And without any evidence to show it.

And as far as fair, why do you want to be "fair" to those with less, but do not seem at all concerned about being "fair" to those who have more??

Why should those working hard have a free ride for the roads, police, schools, and other things you mentioned earlier in this thread??

And the guy who flew his plane into the building was one of those working folks. And now you want to lighten his burden in favor of some vague idea that there are trust fund babies laying around doing drugs.
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I want everyone to keep all of their money... Because that cant happen I want the most fair way to be done..

To me it is more fair to take it from those who inherited it and not those who worked hard to make it!
 
Winter, have I ever given you rep points before. I sure would now but the system won't let me...we're sure on the same page on this thread. I know you didn't like Huckabee for a few reasons (religious zealot type or whatever) but I definitely liked his consumption tax and flat tax talk. I would like to see us try it as a change in the taxation system couldn't help but be a change for the better, IMO.
 
Jarod said:
I want everyone to keep all of their money... Because that cant happen I want the most fair way to be done..

To me it is more fair to take it from those who inherited it and not those who worked hard to make it!
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What is fair is to make everyone pay the same percentage of their income.

You say you don't want someone to not be able to share the fruits of their work with their families, but you want to tax them more for doing so? How the hell does that work?

And the money that they are living off is also stimulating the economy. When you get a mortgage to buy a home, do you think the banks are loaning you the money of a bunch of middle class people with a huge debt? Or are you borrowing the money that is invested by rich people?



The whole idea of fair is that everyone is treated the same.
 
Jarod said:
How many reading this thread were for Bush's Iraq war..... be honest!
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There is nothing to tell us that this guy did. So who cares?

You are trying to paint him as a Conservative or Tea Partier, when all indications are that he was far from that. I don't hear many conservatives talking up communism, at least, not explicitly.

His rant against taxes is about disparity and what he viewed as unequal treatment. He did not indicate that he felt he had no obligation to pay taxes.

Also, counter to what Winter is arguing, he was no advocate for simplifying the tax code. He tried to take advantage of a loophole and got his hand slapped.
 
WinterBorn said:
What is fair is to make everyone pay the same percentage of their income.

You say you don't want someone to not be able to share the fruits of their work with their families, but you want to tax them more for doing so? How the hell does that work?

And the money that they are living off is also stimulating the economy. When you get a mortgage to buy a home, do you think the banks are loaning you the money of a bunch of middle class people with a huge debt? Or are you borrowing the money that is invested by rich people?



The whole idea of fair is that everyone is treated the same.
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I dont want to take anyone's money, but If I have to, Id take it from those who worked hard for it last!
 
leaningright said:
Winter, have I ever given you rep points before. I sure would now but the system won't let me...we're sure on the same page on this thread. I know you didn't like Huckabee for a few reasons (religious zealot type or whatever) but I definitely liked his consumption tax and flat tax talk. I would like to see us try it as a change in the taxation system couldn't help but be a change for the better, IMO.
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I think the rep system is screwed up, but I appreciate your words.

I didn't like Huckabee's religious views, but his support of the Fair Tax Act had me liking him better than most of his opponents.
 
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