Ignorance and the Bible

domer76 said:
Organized religion is all about control. Stray from the company line and you’re branded an outsider. Or worse yet, a heretic of some sort.

Unlike church dogma that theists follow, atheists aren’t “trained” in anything. Most, like myself, come to their conclusions about gods, especially the Christian god, after considerable study and introspection. Very much different than those who are indoctrinated into a particular religion before they are old enough to think on their own.

You’re a Christian, right? That’s because you were born in a Christian setting. You’d be Muslim or Jewish or whatever being born in those environments. It’s no coincidence that one’s religion is almost always defined on their place of birth.
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I agree and disagree.

many masonic atheists are explicitly trained in trying to mislead christians into christain Zionism via an ongoing effort since the early 1900s with the scofield Bible and British israelism.
 
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domer76 said:
Organized religion is all about control. Stray from the company line and you’re branded an outsider. Or worse yet, a heretic of some sort.

Unlike church dogma that theists follow, atheists aren’t “trained” in anything. Most, like myself, come to their conclusions about gods, especially the Christian god, after considerable study and introspection. Very much different than those who are indoctrinated into a particular religion before they are old enough to think on their own.

You’re a Christian, right? That’s because you were born in a Christian setting. You’d be Muslim or Jewish or whatever being born in those environments. It’s no coincidence that one’s religion is almost always defined on their place of birth.
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there is true wisdom in the teachings, if you can ignore the "setting".

some teachings are tribal.

some aren't.


thats the main moral lead between christainity and Judaism.

:truestory:
 
gmark77 said:
People are free to hold whatever beliefs they want.




Given that I have been shown zero evidence of God (any God or gods) I think it more likely there are no gods than that there is one or more than one.

Atheism is SUPER SIMPLE. There has been no evidence provided that would indicate God is real. I simply lack belief in the claim that God is real.
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So you acknowledge that you "believe" that it is more likely that there are no gods than that there are any.

Okay...and as I said, that "belief" is the reason you identify as an atheist...not that you simply lack belief in the claim that there are any.

I also do not "believe" there are any gods. It happens I also do not "believe" there are no gods. And I have absolutely no idea if there are...or are not. Any choice I make would be a blind guess. Same goes for "Is it more likely that there are no gods or that there is at least one."

I acknowledge that. People who choose "atheist" as a personal descriptor just seem unable to do that.

No problem.
 
Ross Dolan said:
So you acknowledge that you "believe" that it is more likely that there are no gods than that there are any.

Okay...and as I said, that "belief" is the reason you identify as an atheist...not that you simply lack belief in the claim that there are any.

I also do not "believe" there are any gods. It happens I also do not "believe" there are no gods. And I have absolutely no idea if there are...or are not. Any choice I make would be a blind guess. Same goes for "Is it more likely that there are no gods or that there is at least one."

I acknowledge that. People who choose "atheist" as a personal descriptor just seem unable to do that.

No problem.
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ah blind guess
 
Ross Dolan said:
So you acknowledge that you "believe" that it is more likely that there are no gods than that there are any.
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Yes I believe that. But that does not mean my philosophy is one of "belief". Quite the opposite.

I simply DO NOT believe that there is a God. The God hypothesis has been proposed to me and I found it lacking.


Ross Dolan said:
Okay...and as I said, that "belief" is the reason you identify as an atheist...not that you simply lack belief in the claim that there are any.
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atheism is the lack of belief. That does not mean that I don't believe some things. I "believe" my dog loves me. I "believe" there is ample Secret Aardvark in the fridge but I'm not sure. I "believe" that one day our nation will be a better place.

But I lack any belief whatsoever about God.

Ross Dolan said:
I acknowledge that. People who choose "atheist" as a personal descriptor just seem unable to do that.
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That's because atheism is a lack of belief.


 
gmark77 said:
(A) is the only rational approach to atheism.

(B) is logically impossible to prove (you can't prove a universal negative like "There is no God", he could be hiding somewhere, so that's out)

(C) Seems little more than a restatement of the first with the addition of "belief" thrown in. I'd prefer this one be eliminated.

Basically it leaves as the primary definition a lack of belief. Nothing more. (I know there are some atheists who take the (B) approach but I fundamentally disagree with them since it involves proving a universal negative which is impossible to prove.)

Just like I don't believe in the little people in the wilds of Iceland. They may very well be there as Bjork claims, but I've seen no evidence and as such feel quite comfortable in simply not believing the claim.

It is not a matter of faith that I don't believe in these things, it is because no valuable reason to believe in them has been presented. And that which can be presented without evidence can be easily dismissed.
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Pretty close to my path. Typically, I don’t use that word “belief” with my personal experience. It’s my conclusion rather than belief and that conclusion was reached based upon the research I have done on the origin and evolution of the god concept, especially the Abrahamic versions. But the same rationale applies to all gods.
 
gmark77 said:
No, it's not making fun of the ancients. That would be silly. It's far more fun to make fun of modern day people who enjoy all the benefits of science but who think Genesis is literal. ;)
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Keeping Creation Science out of public schools can be achieved in the court rooms, not in the ballot box.

I want to win elections. Mocking Christianity is not going to win elections, and it will actually lose votes. There aren't enough atheists to win elections. Democrats are now routinely losing elections in Midwestern and Appalachian states that they used to routinely win. These states are economically populist but they are also socially conservative. And the Democratic Party has a loud fringe minority that is ignoring that electoral fact.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Isn't that true of any human organization be it a government, a military or university? Toe the line or pay the price?

The weakness in atheists is the arrogant belief that they are better than others. Their belief they are superior because they don't believe in anything. Weird.
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Kind of a catchall description of all atheists, isn’t it? I would reject that premise.

There’s a difference between other institutions and religious ones. The penalty for those other organizations might be lack of a promotion or pay or status. Things of that nature. The penalty from your churches is excommunication or eternal damnation. A tad bit different in severity, wouldn’t you say?
 
domer76 said:
Organized religion is all about control. Stray from the company line and you’re branded an outsider. Or worse yet, a heretic of some sort.

Unlike church dogma that theists follow, atheists aren’t “trained” in anything. Most, like myself, come to their conclusions about gods, especially the Christian god, after considerable study and introspection. Very much different than those who are indoctrinated into a particular religion before they are old enough to think on their own.

You’re a Christian, right? That’s because you were born in a Christian setting. You’d be Muslim or Jewish or whatever being born in those environments. It’s no coincidence that one’s religion is almost always defined on their place of birth.
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what is unorganized religion about?
 
gmark77 said:
Yes I believe that. But that does not mean my philosophy is one of "belief". Quite the opposite.

I simply DO NOT believe that there is a God. The God hypothesis has been proposed to me and I found it lacking.
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Nonsense...and you are too intelligent to continue to kid yourself about this.

You were asked a question earlier, "Do you also lack a belief that there are no gods?"

Maybe you can honestly answer that "no"...BUT...you do NOT lack a belief that it is more likely that there are no gods than that there is one.

AND THAT IS A "BELIEF."

If you think not, give me the odds for both options...and how you calculated them.
gmark77 said:
atheism is the lack of belief.
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No it isn't. Atheism is a descriptor...one which an individual can choose to use. You do not lack "belief." We've already established that.
gmark77 said:
That does not mean that I don't believe some things. I "believe" my dog loves me. I "believe" there is ample Secret Aardvark in the fridge but I'm not sure. I "believe" that one day our nation will be a better place.

But I lack any belief whatsoever about God.
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Okay. But you do not lack a belief that it is more likely that there are no gods than that there is at least one.

Why is it so hard for you to acknowledge that that is the reason you choose to use "atheist" as a self-descriptor?
gmark77 said:
That's because atheism is a lack of belief.
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No...it really is not.
 
domer76 said:
Pretty close to my path. Typically, I don’t use that word “belief” with my personal experience. It’s my conclusion rather than belief and that conclusion was reached based upon the research I have done on the origin and evolution of the god concept, especially the Abrahamic versions. But the same rationale applies to all gods.
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You are doing what theists do...rationalizing your "beliefs"...which is to say, you are rationalizing your guesses.

Blind guesses at that.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Most cultures have origin or creation stories. Notice how the atheists looooove to attack Christians, but don't spend much, if any, time ridiculing Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Taoists, etc much less those in their own ranks who don't toe the Atheist line. LOL

www.atheists.org

Our Vision

We envision a world in which policies are made using the best evidence we have rather than using religious dogma.
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Atheism is the comprehensive world view of persons who are free from theism and have freed themselves of supernatural beliefs altogether. It is predicated on ancient Greek Materialism.
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Materialism - Ancient, Epicurean, Marxist | Britannica

Materialism - Ancient, Epicurean, Marxist: Though Thales of Miletus (c. 580 bce) and some of the other pre-Socratic philosophers have some claims to being regarded as materialists, the materialist tradition in Western philosophy really begins with Leucippus and Democritus, Greek philosophers who...
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True that Christians are the main target when atheists go on the attack mode. That’s because this country is mainly a Christian nation and the Christian right is the group trying to put their stamp on our society. In our government, our institutions our businesses and especially our schools. You don’t see that from the other religions. The same arguments still apply to the others, however.
 
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