Ignorance and the Bible

[Ross Dolan]

I am what is called an "IMPLICIT atheist".

What kind of atheist are you?

Written by Guest author by Mike Flood At Milton Keynes Humanists’ monthly meetings, we are always pleased to welcome new people, and many come with questions about atheism — “What exactly is an atheist?” “How does atheism differ from agnosticism?” and “How do you define humanism?” So we thought...

humanists.uk

Great. I hope you are happy with your "belief" that it is more likely that there are no gods than that there is at least one. I also hope the theists among us are happy with their "beliefs" that there is a GOD or that it is more likely that there is a GOD than that there are none.

One of those blind guesses is correct. I just do not know which it is...so I choose an agnostic perspective (rather than a descriptor) which I have shared many times here in JPP.

 

[RB 60]

Great. I hope you are happy with your "belief" that it is more likely that there are no gods than that there is at least one. I also hope the theists among us are happy with their "beliefs" that there is a GOD or that it is more likely that there is a GOD than that there are none.

One of those blind guesses is correct. I just do not know which it is...so I choose an agnostic perspective (rather than a descriptor) which I have shared many times here in JPP.

That's the point, Frank. You come here screaming many times on JPP that you strongly disagree with our beliefs.
You are free to believe what you want. I don't care, but don't criticize me if I believe something you don't.

 

[Ross Dolan]

That's the point, Frank. You come here screaming many times on JPP that you strongly disagree with our beliefs.
You are free to believe what you want. I don't care, but don't criticize me if I believe something you don't.

I am not...not at all. All I am saying is that you BELIEVE those things you say you BELIEVE.

If you can't take that...these kinds of forums are not for you.

And although you suggest I strongly disagree with your "beliefs"...I have never suggested that I disagree with your beliefs at all.


EVER.

 

[domer76]

Soooo....atheists aren't very worldly. Interesting but agreed. They're like MAGAts.

I don’t see organized atheists as a major power player in this country. Do you?

 

[domer76]

That's the point, Frank. You come here screaming many times on JPP that you strongly disagree with our beliefs.
You are free to believe what you want. I don't care, but don't criticize me if I believe something you don't.

Frank reminds me a little of Jordan Peterson on this subject. A lot of word salad, but little substance.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I don’t see organized atheists as a major power player in this country. Do you?

Trump is an atheist. His god is an earthly god; mammon.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Great. I hope you are happy with your "belief" that it is more likely that there are no gods than that there is at least one. I also hope the theists among us are happy with their "beliefs" that there is a GOD or that it is more likely that there is a GOD than that there are none.

One of those blind guesses is correct. I just do not know which it is...so I choose an agnostic perspective (rather than a descriptor) which I have shared many times here in JPP.

Blind guess is correct since there is no evidence anything beyond the natural universe. This is where Pascal's wager comes in.

 

[domer76]

Trump is an atheist. His god is an earthly god; mammon.

Trump is not smart enough to contemplate all the theological issues it takes to become an atheist.

 

[domer76]

Blind guess is correct since there is no evidence anything beyond the natural universe. This is where Pascal's wager comes in.

His “blind guess” and a logical conclusion are two different things.

 

[Based Chad]

You’ll have to ask someone that claims to be a member.

jokes aside.

have you ever read any good message in any religious texts?

 

[Based Chad]

Trump is not smart enough to contemplate all the theological issues it takes to become an atheist.

all it takes is being a idiot.

 

[Based Chad]

Blind guess is correct since there is no evidence anything beyond the natural universe. This is where Pascal's wager comes in.

this grid only makes sense if you're looking at it from a selfishness paradigm.

acting morally and achieving a high trust society is best for everyone, except sociopaths who hate everyone, they reduce religion to a "what's in it for me" question, to achieve the corruption they love so much.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Trump is not smart enough to contemplate all the theological issues it takes to become an atheist.

Bullshit. What kind of intelligence does it take to not believe in anything except what's in front of your nose?

How much education and smarts does it take to become a narcissistic asshole who only cares about themselves? Trump acts like a spoiled teenager with the morals of the same. He'd make a perfect atheist.

Despite Richard Dawkins' attempts to ridicule believers, as militant atheists are wont to do, there's no such thing as an atheist priest or seminary student.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

His “blind guess” and a logical conclusion are two different things.

They can be. In this case it's not. It's a simple decision tree. Quite logical.

It's akin to the question of "is the glass half empty or half full?" It's a matter of perspective. Militant atheists spend a lot of time find reasons to hate religion and disbelieve anything that's not in front of them. There's theists who believe, without evidence, in things without evidence such as "She's witch!" or "Burn the heretic!". Like politics, extremists in spiritual matters be they atheist or theist, are much alike due to their emotional attachment to their beliefs or "disbeliefs". Emotional attachments are illogical.

 

[domer76]

all it takes is being a idiot.

Odd, isn’t it, that true Biblical scholars, many of who were true believers at one time, many of who went through divinity schools and who possess their PhDs in a variety of Old Testament, New Testament, Early Christianity studies are atheists.

And they only came to their conclusions based on years of intense study. Hardly a group that one would classify as idiots.

That is in contrast to those who were indoctrinated into whatever religious dogma they were born into from the time they were old enough to walk.

Me? I’ll take study and reflection over dogma indoctrination every time.

 

[domer76]

Bullshit. What kind of intelligence does it take to not believe in anything except what's in front of your nose?

How much education and smarts does it take to become a narcissistic asshole who only cares about themselves? Trump acts like a spoiled teenager with the morals of the same. He'd make a perfect atheist.

Despite Richard Dawkins' attempts to ridicule believers, as militant atheists are wont to do, there's no such thing as an atheist priest or seminary student.

Yeah there is such a thing as an atheist seminary student. Many Biblical scholars were originally evangelicals who attended divinity schools. It was the actual STUDY of the Bible and all its contradictions that led them to atheism.

Trump is not smart enough nor possesses the intellectual curiosity to go through the process of those kinds of evaluations.

Being a narcissistic asshole and contemplating the nature of the universe and human nature are vastly different.

 

[Ross Dolan]

His “blind guess” and a logical conclusion are two different things.

If you are saying, "It is more likely that there are no gods than that there is at least one"...YOU ARE MAKING A BLIND GUESS. The only reason you want to consider it "a logical conclusion" is because of your blind guess. You are doing the same thing a theist does when the theist insists that the existence of a GOD is a logical conclusion. You are doing the same thing Augustine and Aquinas did...making a blind guess (having a "belief") and insisting that blind guess is correct "having faith."

It is just that you are guessing in the opposite direction from them.

 

[domer76]

jokes aside.

have you ever read any good message in any religious texts?

Sure. Plenty of good messages. That is no evidence or proof of a god, however. I get plenty of good messages from the Dao or the Stoics. No god there.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Atheism is simply a word...a self-descriptor word. A person chooses to use it as a self-descriptor...and damn near EVERY person who chooses to use it to describe self...uses it because of a "belief"...a guess about the reality of existence.

Atheism is as much a product of "belief" as is theism...although atheists want to view themselves as being without beliefs, so they pretend the reason they use the word as a self-descriptor is because they lack belief.

Apparently you are not prepared to see the truth on this at this time. Okay...that happens. The MAGA element among us is not prepared to see the great damage Trump is doing to our country and its values.

You have the right to that pretense. I challenge it simply because it is being presented in a forum where challenges of this sort are a part of the game.

Agreed on definitions. The most logical position is agnostic in recognition that such matters lack evidence and are unlikely to produce any evidence. Atheist or theist, it's a belief. Agnostics recognize the futility in dissecting the issue and move on to other subjects.

 

[domer76]

They can be. In this case it's not. It's a simple decision tree. Quite logical.

It's akin to the question of "is the glass half empty or half full?" It's a matter of perspective. Militant atheists spend a lot of time find reasons to hate religion and disbelieve anything that's not in front of them. There's theists who believe, without evidence, in things without evidence such as "She's witch!" or "Burn the heretic!". Like politics, extremists in spiritual matters be they atheist or theist, are much alike due to their emotional attachment to their beliefs or "disbeliefs". Emotional attachments are illogical.

Are you referring to Pascals Wager? That, of course, is complete bullshit. He defines his own god, the Christian god, without consideration of the myriad of other god concepts. Failed from the get go.

I don’t know about all these militant atheists you speak of. What impact on society are they having? What I DO know is how the Christian nationalism movement impacts our politics these days.