Ignorance and the Bible

Cypress said:
This interpretation defies historical context, and runs counter to human psychology.

Jesus wasn't the only Palestinian Jew that locals thought was the Messiah. Other presumed Messiahs had been killed by the Romans, and their followers just scattered to the winds, never to be heard from again, or they started looking around for a new leader.
There is no precedent for what happened with the Jesus movement.
The only resurrection Jews believed in was a general resurrection at the end of time; there was no historical context or expectation for a single individual to resurrect.

If you mean by "fixed the problem" that the Disciples and Evangelists cynically fabricated and concocted a story about Jesus being resurrected and being a divine being, then you're going to have to explain why apostles were willing to be executed for that idea. People do not willingly die for something they actually know is a lie.

Trinitarian doctrine doesn't make me angry. That's just a theological sideshow to me. Trinitarian doctrine happened centuries later and has no bearing on what I consider to be the historical facts of the first century:

The key events of the the first century to me are:

A Jewish rabbi named Jesus lived and taught in and around Galilee;
He was executed by the Romans for political crimes;
His followers came to genuinely believe they saw him after the crucifixion;
He was thought to somehow be God in nature from the very beginning, well before the canonical gospels were written.
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" Before Abraham I AM''!
 
gmark77 said:
No it doesn't. Science doesn't matter where you teach it. Truth is truth. If you want religion in science then get ready for Vedic Science to take precedence.
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In Public School no! A private school could teach a course on ,God vs Science ! The differences and similarities.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Good point about the evolution of human society and Ehrman's comments.

"Might makes right", like the jungle's rule of "kill or be killed" is far older than written human history. The social evolution of Buddhist and, later, Christian ideology was a progression that allows the world we live in today to exist.

Putin is a throwback. The dictators in emerging nations are less common now than they were 100 years ago. Trump's wannabe dictatorship is also a throwback ideology since it seeks to serve the few over the many. Notice that, like Trump, Putin and other dictators do not follow the precepts of Buddhism or Christianity. They'll go through the ceremony, or sleep through it as Trump does, but they don't walk the walk since they are really atheists who do not believe in anything except their material existence.
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Everything about Trump's,whatever you call this era,wraps around feeding his enormous Ego! Everything else smoke and mirrors.
 
Cypress said:
You said morality was rational and based on the self-interest of mutual cooperation.

What Schindler and Perlasca did was irrational by any scientific logical definition, and it wasn't based on the philosophy of mutual cooperation for mutual advantage.

It was based on selfless self-sacrifice on behalf of total strangers, and the moral recognition of objective evil and absolute wrong.
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There is a logic to "mutually assured survival" just as there is to "mutually assured destruction". Morality is based on mutual interests, at least on a secular level. On a spiritual level, many religions and spiritual beliefs across cultures seem to recognize a natural harmony with others, including nature itself.

Schindler and Perlasca can be partly attributed to upbringing along with an individual sense of morality based upon their upbring. Some people are naturally more caring than others. I don't know how much of that is genetic, family upbringing and social conditioning.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
If a person believes in a creator of the dichotomic Universe, then they should also believe that people can't choose to be good if there is no such thing as evil. If people are to be given a choice, then they must have at least two options.

FWIW, I don't believe in evil as a force. Evil is simply the absence of good like cold is the absence of heat or darkness the absence of light.
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People knowingly commit evil daily!
 
domer76 said:
I never thought justice would always prevail. Depending on one’s opinion on what defines justice, sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn’t. Whether it dominates is anyone’s guess.

There is no such thing as an unchanging moral code. Our views of morality are much different than they were when the Gospels were written. And even more so with the OT. They are different from culture to culture, as well. Humans define morality, not some hidden deity. Not only do humans, as a group, define morality, individuals have their own views. Gay marriage and sex being the first that comes to mind.

Your god, through his churches, has changed his mind even in our times. Interracial marriage, gay marriage. Not so unchanging, is it?

Yep, sin is a theological concept. I have never sinned.
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Men run Church's not YHWH! Organized Religion has little to do with
YHWH.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
There is a logic to "mutually assured survival" just as there is to "mutually assured destruction". Morality is based on mutual interests, at least on a secular level. On a spiritual level, many religions and spiritual beliefs across cultures seem to recognize a natural harmony with others, including nature itself.

Schindler and Perlasca can be partly attributed to upbringing along with an individual sense of morality based upon their upbring. Some people are naturally more caring than others. I don't know how much of that is genetic, family upbringing and social conditioning.
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Good point.
Mutual cooperation is found across the animal world, and can be explained by Darwinian scientific principles.

I don't think Perlasca and Schindler had a better moral upbringing, or a more finely tuned moral sensibility than most people.

What they had was courage.

When the vast majority of people hear about what Oskar or Giorgio did, they agree wholeheartedly with it and commend it. But most people, even if they know absolute right from absolute wrong, are not able to be heroes.
 
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