Illegal alien voted in multiple presidential elections

[FastLane]

You must think that voter ID would bring illegal voting down to zero, when it's already negligible.

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Illegal voting in the U.S. is extremely rare, with estimates suggesting it occurs at a rate of about 0.000003 cases for every vote cast. This means the percentage of illegal voting is negligible compared to the total number of votes.

Cato Institute ap.org

You must think showing an ID when you vote is onerous . It is not. I do it every time I vote. Takes less than 30 seconds. If you don't really look for voter fraud you aren't likely to find voter fraud.

 

[Jake Starkey]

We have no sure way of knowing that. What you offer is simply a McNamara fallacy. So, called because it only accounts for what is measurable and known discounting or ignoring all else.

You use terms you don't really comprehend.

We can guess pretty that sure we are close to 100.

You are not able to make a case for stricter levels. But... if you can, your duty is to do so, rather than "the no sure way of knowing that" argument.

The McNamara Fallacy is when someone only considers what can be measured and dismisses what cannot be measured — even when the unmeasured factors are important.

It has four steps:

1. Measure what’s easily measurable
2. Ignore what can’t be measured
3. Assume what can’t be measured doesn’t matter
4. Conclude only the measurable matters

The classic example: Robert McNamara measuring body counts in Vietnam and assuming that meant the U.S. was winning.

But in the statement you showed, the person is not identifying that pattern — they’re just asserting it.

This happens when someone slaps a fallacy label onto an argument without demonstrating that the fallacy actually applies.

It’s a rhetorical shortcut:

• No explanation
• No evidence
• No demonstration of the four steps of the McNamara fallacy
• Just the label

This is also called:

• Bare assertion fallacy
• Fallacy fallacy (claiming something is wrong because it contains a fallacy label)
• Ipse dixit (“it is so because I say so”)

The McNamara fallacy would apply only if someone said:

“We can only measure documented cases of voter fraud, therefore undocumented cases don’t exist.”

But most Voter ID arguments are about:

• access
• burden
• disenfranchisement
• administrative cost
• constitutional principles

Those are not measurable-only arguments.So invoking McNamara here is misapplied.

The speaker is using the name of a fallacy as a rhetorical weapon rather than actually showing the reasoning error.​

Yes — there is a fallacy. The person is incorrectly invoking the McNamara fallacy and is instead committing a bare assertion fallacy (and arguably a fallacy fallacy) by claiming the argument is invalid simply because they labeled it with a fallacy name.

 

[Nordberg]

In fact ,since 1992,there have been 2 billion votes and they found 10 instances of illegals voting. It is a make believe problem to fire up haters, This board is full of them.

 

[QP!]

For every one of these fraud-voters we catch, there is 1000 we did not catch.

-

We have caught far more magat voters, including ones who run the local election administration voting illegally for dead relatives, etc.

For every one of those we have caught there 10,000 we did not catch.

So we should just ban magats from voting.

 

[Ross Dolan]

Idiot! My post wasn't about WHO they voted for. It was about an ILLEGAL ALIEN voting in our elections. And, not just once, but repeatedly over more than 20 years. This is something the Democrats and Left claim doesn't happen.

Nobody is claiming it does not happen. Stop being an asshole...if you can.

Yes, there will always be SOME illegal votes. But every indication is that the illegal voting is NOT enough to meaningfully change results.

But you fucking losers have to make it seem that the reason you are losers is because other people are cheating. The fact is, though, that you fucking losers are fucking losers because you are simply fucking losers.

 

[Jake Starkey]

MAGAs indeed are fuckling losers who are fucking fucking losers and making more fucking losers.

 

[evince]

.000000000000000000000000001


Does not an election change fart brain

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Nobody is claiming it does not happen. Stop being an asshole...if you can.

The Democrats come pretty damn close to that argument, and your next statement proves it.

Yes, there will always be SOME illegal votes. But every indication is that the illegal voting is NOT enough to meaningfully change results.

There have been cases, usually local or state elections where voter fraud DID change the outcome. You seem to think that only the Presidential election matters here.

But you fucking losers have to make it seem that the reason you are losers is because other people are cheating. The fact is, though, that you fucking losers are fucking losers because you are simply fucking losers.

Actually, it's YOU fucking losers that want voter fraud. The For the Voters Act and John Lewis Voter's Act are two examples of that in action. You want to make voter fraud as easy to do and as undetectable as possible. Both those bills, sponsored entirely by Democrats, do just that.

 

[Nordberg]

The Democrats come pretty damn close to that argument, and your next statement proves it.


There have been cases, usually local or state elections where voter fraud DID change the outcome. You seem to think that only the Presidential election matters here.


Actually, it's YOU fucking losers that want voter fraud. The For the Voters Act and John Lewis Voter's Act are two examples of that in action. You want to make voter fraud as easy to do and as undetectable as possible. Both those bills, sponsored entirely by Democrats, do just that.

Bad votes are .0007 percent of votes. They have zero impact on the totals. Most are people voting using a dead spouses mail in ballot. There are more Repubs doing that than Democrats. You are deep into a right wing lie.

 

[Jake Starkey]

The Democrats come pretty damn close to that argument, and your next statement proves it.


There have been cases, usually local or state elections where voter fraud DID change the outcome. You seem to think that only the Presidential election matters here.


Actually, it's YOU fucking losers that want voter fraud. The For the Voters Act and John Lewis Voter's Act are two examples of that in action. You want to make voter fraud as easy to do and as undetectable as possible. Both those bills, sponsored entirely by Democrats, do just that.

Fallacy assertion.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Bad votes are .0007 percent of votes. They have zero impact on the totals. Most are people voting using a dead spouses mail in ballot. There are more Repubs doing that than Democrats. You are deep into a right wing lie.

The McNamara fallacy in that aside, there are two reasons to strengthen voter ID and other requirements to eliminate fraudulent voting in our elections:

1. Doing so creates the perception that the elections are more secure. Stopping such actions, or arguing that fraud is rare and can be ignored, creates the opposite perception. That's bad in terms of public opinion. Thus, laws should be passed that help strengthen public perception of clean elections.

2. Creating conditions, or allowing conditions, to exist that have the potential for voter fraud, and particularly undetectable or hard to detect voter fraud will encourage voter fraud. Things like: No voter ID, same day voter registration, automatic voter registration with driver's license (motor-voter laws), all mail in balloting, voting 'seasons' that last weeks, ballot harvesting, and the like all set potential conditions that can encourage voter fraud. Out of sight, out of mind, makes things easier for those wanting to perpetrate fraud.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Fallacy assertion.

Show me how the two bills I mentioned, written by and sponsored in Congress by, Democrats exclusively, would strengthen our elections. Go for it. I dare you.

 

[Jake Starkey]

You misasserted what a McNamara fallacy is (I corrected it) then you made an assertion fallacy.

And then you begin a 'squirrel' argument.

Go away.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

You misasserted what a McNamara fallacy is (I corrected it) then you made an assertion fallacy.

Go away.

A McNamara fallacy is committed when you only accept quantifiable evidence while rejecting anything that is speculative, theoretical, or postulated in favor of that hard evidence. This is particularly the case when the theoretical has a reasonable or sound basis to make its case.

That aside, answer my earlier statement. Show me how the For the Voters Act and John Lewis Voter's Act would strengthen our election security.

 

[Ross Dolan]

The Democrats come pretty damn close to that argument, and your next statement proves it.

Bullshit. I have never heard or read ANYONE suggest no voter fraud ever happens. Never.

Perhaps you have. Post a link to anyone sane who suggests that it never happens...as you suggested.


And nothing in my next statement contradicts that in any way.

There have been cases, usually local or state elections where voter fraud DID change the outcome. You seem to think that only the Presidential election matters here.

I am willing to read any account you have that indicates that state or local elections were changed because of fraud. But presidential elections are the main focus of my remarks...for what I consider obvious reasons. The deranged moron, Trump, has been asserting that he lost the 2020 election because of voter fraud...and the deranged jerkoff, Trump ass-kissers continue to claim he is correct, despite being unable to get that idiotic charge verified in a court of law.

Actually, it's YOU fucking losers that want voter fraud. The For the Voters Act and John Lewis Voter's Act are two examples of that in action. You want to make voter fraud as easy to do and as undetectable as possible. Both those bills, sponsored entirely by Democrats, do just that.

You are totally full of shit, TA. You ought to be ashamed of yourself for supporting the kind of thing Trump and his cadre of losers are doing to our Republic. But I suspect you are just no smart enough to see yourself for what you are.

(I corrected the date of the election the moron Trump contested.)

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Bullshit. I have never heard or read ANYONE suggest no voter fraud ever happens. Never.

Perhaps you have. Post a link to anyone sane who suggests that it never happens...as you suggested.


And nothing in my next statement contradicts that in any way.


I am willing to read any account you have that indicates that state or local elections were changed because of fraud. But presidential elections are the main focus of my remarks...for what I consider obvious reasons. The deranged moron, Trump, has been asserting that he lost the 2016 election because of voter fraud...and the deranged jerkoff, Trump ass-kissers continue to claim he is correct, despite being unable to get that idiotic charge verified in a court of law.


You are totally full of shit, TA. You ought to be ashamed of yourself for supporting the kind of thing Trump and his cadre of losers are doing to our Republic. But I suspect you are just no smart enough to see yourself for what you are.

Most Rigged, Fraudulent, And Corrupt U.S. Elections In History

Since the United States was founded, it has seen a number of controversial ballots, candidates, and outcomes.

www.worldatlas.com

Election irregularities, fraud have led courts to overturn, order several new elections in 2023

Courts in Connecticut, Louisiana, Texas, and Wisconsin have all overturned election results in 2023.

justthenews.com

As for your rant at the end, it only proves me correct. You won't defend the For the Voters Act or the John Lewis Voter's Act because you can't. They both encourage massive fraud in our elections, and you won't defend either as anything else.

 

[Ross Dolan]

Most Rigged, Fraudulent, And Corrupt U.S. Elections In History

Since the United States was founded, it has seen a number of controversial ballots, candidates, and outcomes.

www.worldatlas.com

Election irregularities, fraud have led courts to overturn, order several new elections in 2023

Courts in Connecticut, Louisiana, Texas, and Wisconsin have all overturned election results in 2023.

justthenews.com

As for your rant at the end, it only proves me correct. You won't defend the For the Voters Act or the John Lewis Voter's Act because you can't. They both encourage massive fraud in our elections, and you won't defend either as anything else.

Most Rigged, Fraudulent, And Corrupt U.S. Elections In History

Since the United States was founded, it has seen a number of controversial ballots, candidates, and outcomes.

www.worldatlas.com

Election irregularities, fraud have led courts to overturn, order several new elections in 2023

Courts in Connecticut, Louisiana, Texas, and Wisconsin have all overturned election results in 2023.

justthenews.com

As for your rant at the end, it only proves me correct. You won't defend the For the Voters Act or the John Lewis Voter's Act because you can't. They both encourage massive fraud in our elections, and you won't defend either as anything else.

You are full of shit...and in league with others who are also.

You traitors simply do not realize what you are doing.

Okay, we still have some freedom...and you are allowed to make fools of yourselves.

I hope we keep that freedom, although if you prevail, it will be gone.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

You are full of shit...and in league with others who are also.

You traitors simply do not realize what you are doing.

Okay, we still have some freedom...and you are allowed to make fools of yourselves.

I hope we keep that freedom, although if you prevail, it will be gone.

Your shift to ad hominem and insults tells me everything I need to know. You want the Left's 'Dictatorship of Virtue' to win and live in a Socialist slave society reminiscent of Orwell's 1984.

 

[Ross Dolan]

Your shift to ad hominem and insults tells me everything I need to know. You want the Left's 'Dictatorship of Virtue' to win and live in a Socialist slave society reminiscent of Orwell's 1984.

My guess is I tell you everything you do know...and I acknowledge it is not much.

After speaking with one of you MAGA morons, I have to take a second shower. I feel dirty for even talking with you.

 

[Jake Starkey]

Show me how the two bills I mentioned, written by and sponsored in Congress by, Democrats exclusively, would strengthen our elections. Go for it. I dare you.

It is self evident. And you use false logic as I proved. You have no cred as an opponent.