If Jesus and Paul didn't really exist, and if the ministry and crucifixion of Christ are just fabricated stories, then Christianity as a religion is completely fraudulent.
Archaeology of the New Testament
- Thread starter Cypress
- Start date
Ichabod Stain
Was it me?
what if all religions are fabricated stories?
does that mean morality does not matter?
NiftyNiblick
1960s Chick Magnet
Some would opine that EVERY religion that recognizes spiritual deities
is completely fraudulent
in the absense of any scientific evidence.
Further, such an opinion is indeed more prevalent among college educated people, is it not?
As for myself, I'm in harmony with the teachings of the NT
because they seem benevolent and useful
but not due to the recorded stories supporting them.
You've made it clear you're an atheist. The fact remains, atheist or theist, there's no proof of what came before the Universe nor if our consciousness transcends death. It's all a matter of belief, atheist or theist.
You don't need quotes yet you use them. Why?
I see no difference between a militant atheist and a Bible-thumping Jesus freak. Both are extremists who believe things without question but, worse, seek beat others over the head with their unsubstantiated views.
ZenMode
Well-known member
I believe that Christians claim, when it's convenient, that the Bible is the word of god...until it's not... or until god "changes his mind" or until it's an inconvenient and becomes just a story.
That is all true and I also believe there's no god.
ZenMode
Well-known member
Absence of any meaningful evidence. The only evidence is "Well, we can't explain where this all came from, so you can't say a god didn't make it."
Anything one reads, watches, hears, etc can be useful. I've gotten useful information from sitcoms.
Ichabod Stain
Was it me?
but where are you on killing Gaza babies, Mr reasonable?You've made it clear you're an atheist. The fact remains, atheist or theist, there's no proof of what came before the Universe nor if our consciousness transcends death. It's all a matter of belief, atheist or theist.
You don't need quotes yet you use them. Why?
I see no difference between a militant atheist and a Bible-thumping Jesus freak. Both are extremists who believe things without question but, worse, seek beat others over the head with their unsubstantiated views.
Ichabod Stain
Was it me?
answer the question, Mr thoughtful.
ZenMode
Well-known member
Yes, we don't know, but not knowing isn't a license to invent an answer. Every gap in our knowledge used to be filled with gods: lightning, disease, the sun, mental illness. Over time, all of those gods has been pushed away by science.
When in Rome....You don't need quotes yet you use them. Why?
This is how discussions/debates work. Nobody is forced to participate.
You don't have to believe the Jewish story of Noah's ark is literally an accurate historical account to be a Christian.
Now, in your worldview nothing exists but electrons, quarks, and energy. That means there is no ultimate meaning or purpose to anything, and humans do not really have any kind of innate value.
So why do you have moral outrage about a flood? The only way you could be morally outraged is if you believe in an objective moral truth, an imperative moral obligation that stands independent of human opinion, human culture, or popular consensus.
What exactly is this objective moral standard you are pointing at to justify your moral outrage?
ZenMode
Well-known member
So, you're saying the Bible contains lies?
It doesn't, but that's beside the point.
Because Christians, like you, like to claim god is all-loving, all-caring, all-knowing, etc and the Bible clearly shows otherwise.
It's not outrage. It's contradicting false claims about the God of Abraham.
The militant atheists don't use the words "Jewish" or "Muslim". They only seek to attack Christians. Weird.
Nice dodge but you are lecturing like a Bible Thumper and not discussing anything.
ZenMode
Well-known member
One man's lecture is another man's discussion.
Into the Night
Contributor
Let's just say He has a lot more experience than you do, Void.
Just as a brother can predict the actions of a sibling.
So?
Already did. RQAA. Go back and read it.
I don't know why you even care. You don't believe in God, Jesus, or Satan.
Into the Night
Contributor
Buzzword fallacies. It is obvious you don't know what 'rational' or 'cherry picking' means.
You don't believe in God, Jesus, Satan, or anything in the Bible. What do you care?
MAGAts is not a word, Sybil.
You are describing yourself.
Into the Night
Contributor
What 'Gaza babies'?
Ichabod Stain
Was it me?
I am convinced that there is more to reality than matter and energy.
I don't think there's any question there is more to reality than the merely physical. There is definitely an immaterial reality in this universe.
The laws of mathematics, the laws of logic, love, trust, liberty, art, music, friendship, justice cannot be explained by electrons and quarks.
The creation of a lawfully organized and rational universe itself can be understood to point to some underlying higher rational agency.
As such, I am not quick to say that nothing exists beyond the physical and observable.
I really believe atheists for the most part are cultural Christians, even if not practicing Christians. Our civilization has been permeated so thoroughly for two thousand years by a Christian zeitgeist that it basically inculcates all of us.