Citing deficit, Obama freezing federal worker pay

[Bonestorm]

lol.... ok... so add one step...

ECI goes up.... so government workers get a raise... so taxes go up to pay for the raise... so private sector demands more to compensate for higher taxes... so ECI goes up... so government workers get a raise... so taxes go up to pay for the raise... so private sector demands more to compensate for higher taxes... so ECI goes up... so government workers get a raise... so taxes go up to pay for the raise... so private sector demands more to compensate for higher taxes... so ECI goes up...

It is circular bullshit. Why the hell should a standard raise be tied to the private sector? While for the most part the ECI and CPI fall in line... there is no reason to use ECI over CPI for federal employees.

ECI generally goes up regardless of tax rates. When Regan lowered taxes ECI increased. When Clinton raised taxes ECI increased. When Bush lowered taxes ECI increased. How about we dabble in reality for a little while?

And the standard raise should be tied to the private sector because that is who the government competes with for workers.

 

[Frogmeister]

Yeah, except cost of living hasn't risen, but there pay has.

My costs have gone up, especially at the grocery store and gas pump! I don't know who keeps track of these things...

 

[Damocles]

My costs have gone up, especially at the grocery store and gas pump! I don't know who keeps track of these things...

The same people who want to convince you that inflation hasn't started, and never will, because of the overspending and overreaching government.

 

[Bonestorm]

The same people who want to convince you that inflation hasn't started, and never will, because of the overspending and overreaching government.

Even when including all items, inflation for the 12-month period ending October 2010 was at 1.2%, which is well below the target rate. Core inflation, which excludes food and gas, was at 0.6%.

It really shouldn't take much to convince anyone that inflation is not anything to be concerned about when inflation is not anything to be concerned about.

 

[Damocles]

Even when including all items, inflation for the 12-month period ending October 2010 was at 1.2%, which is well below the target rate. Core inflation, which excludes food and gas, was at 0.6%.

It really shouldn't take much to convince anyone that inflation is not anything to be concerned about when inflation is not anything to be concerned about.

Again, based on reports from the same people who want you to believe that high inflation will never be a consequence of printing money to loan to ourselves. I'm good with what the reports say, and understand what they say. I'm also in full understanding that the exact same amount of food from the weekly grocery store trip now costs me $25 more than before. One can either have faith in reports from people who gain from your belief or one can understand that evidence directly before them may be contrary to what they are reporting.

 

[Bonestorm]

Again, based on reports from the same people who want you to believe that high inflation will never be a consequence of printing money to loan to ourselves. I'm good with what the reports say, and understand what they say. I'm also in full understanding that the exact same amount of food from the weekly grocery store trip now costs me $25 more than before. One can either have faith in reports from people who gain from your belief or one can understand that evidence directly before them may be contrary to what they are reporting.

So your position is that the Bureau of Labor Statistics is not accurately reporting national inflation figures because your grocer has raised prices?

That's insane. You should be relegated to posting exclusively in the conspiracy theory forum from this point forward.


P.S. You may want to lay off the Glenn Beck for a while.

 

[WinterBorn]

Whenever the gov't gets involved with shit it goes downhill.

We started a project recently that is part of the stimulus money, and the rules are insane.

First of all, we have to pay "prevailing wage". We are working in an area where the median income is under $20k a year. The wages they set for our employees amounts to roughly $30 an hour for unskilled labor.

Another of the rules states that the mgmt is not allowed to do more than 8 hrs of "field work" per week. They want him managing and not out doing the work. So we limit the amount the pros can work, and pay the unskilled workers way too much.


Yeah, lets let the gov't fix it for us.

 

[Damocles]

So your position is that the Bureau of Labor Statistics is not accurately reporting national inflation figures because your grocer has raised prices?

That's insane. You should be relegated to posting exclusively in the conspiracy theory forum from this point forward.


P.S. You may want to lay off the Glenn Beck for a while.

No, my position is that prices have gone up, which is a sign of inflation. So far we have two personal reports of higher prices from people that I know and who are not likely to make up stories for their "benefit". It gives me pause and prods my inherent mistrust of government.

 

[Bonestorm]

No, my position is that prices have gone up, which is a sign of inflation. So far we have two personal reports of higher prices from people that I know and who are not likely to make up stories for their "benefit". It gives me pause and prods my inherent mistrust of government.

Here's another personal report: you're off the deep end.

 

[Damocles]

Here's another personal report: you're off the deep end.

If you say so. So far I have never been disappointed by my expectation that government is untrustworthy.

 

[Bonestorm]

If you say so. So far I have never been disappointed by my expectation that government is untrustworthy.

It's one thing to say that the government is untrustworthy. It's quite another to claim that the BLS is manufacturing data for purposes of . . . I'm not sure exactly . . . because the experience of 2 individuals in a country of 300 million was inconsistent with the reported average.

Here's a link to the most recent CPI report published by the BLS:

http://www.bls.gov/cpi/cpid1010.pdf

Go to pages 111-112 and you can check the prices you are paying against the listed averages. Perhaps you can find a less expensive grocer if yours is selling items for substantially above average prices for your region.

 

[Damocles]

It's one thing to say that the government is untrustworthy. It's quite another to claim that the BLS is manufacturing data for purposes of . . . I'm not sure exactly . . . because the experience of 2 individuals in a country of 300 million was inconsistent with the reported average.

Here's a link to the most recent CPI report published by the BLS:

http://www.bls.gov/cpi/cpid1010.pdf

Go to pages 111-112 and you can check the prices you are paying against the listed averages. Perhaps you can find a less expensive grocer if yours is selling items for substantially above average prices for your region.

Or, it is possible that discounts that I previously received are becoming less available thus increasing real costs without changing average pricing. It really doesn't matter how the bill increases, it just matters that it does increase. Those same discounts less available to somebody only a bit less economically viable can make a huge difference. The pretense is in believing that because the government told you something it is the only "truth" that can exist. I am disappointed in you Nigel, usually you are slightly more thoughtful than this.

 

[Bonestorm]

Or, it is possible that discounts that I previously received are becoming less available thus increasing real costs without changing average pricing. It really doesn't matter how the bill increases, it just matters that it does increase. Those same discounts less available to somebody only a bit less economically viable can make a huge difference. The pretense is in believing that because the government told you something it is the only "truth" that can exist. I am disappointed in you Nigel, usually you are slightly more thoughtful than this.

There is no "pretense" in believing the universally accepted source for reporting economic data is accurately reporting economic data, particularly where the reporting is of such excruciating detail that it can easily be verified or refudiated and the only reason that you personally object to it is that the reported national average is not consistent with your personal experience and does not support your political views.

It's just silly. Extremely silly. In fact, it's Glenn Beckian nuttiness. At least he gets paid for it. What's your excuse?

I would say I'm disappointed in you, too, but it's pretty much par for the course for you.


Edit: And, like I said, you can compare your personal experience with the reported regional averages for your groceries if you really were skeptical of the BLS report. If you wait until January you can get Denver-Boulder specific average price reports as opposed to the broader West region.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

It's one thing to say that the government is untrustworthy. It's quite another to claim that the BLS is manufacturing data for purposes of . . . I'm not sure exactly . . . because the experience of 2 individuals in a country of 300 million was inconsistent with the reported average.

Here's a link to the most recent CPI report published by the BLS:

http://www.bls.gov/cpi/cpid1010.pdf

Go to pages 111-112 and you can check the prices you are paying against the listed averages. Perhaps you can find a less expensive grocer if yours is selling items for substantially above average prices for your region.

Looking at the 1.2% inflation number is not a good indicator as to how the average person is effected.

Take a look at the numbers that impact low and middle income families the most.....

Gasoline... up 9.5%
Gas (piped nat gas)... up 1.9%
Healthcare.... up 3.6%
Food... up 1.4%

You also can break it down further and look at

Prices for a variety of breakfast items climbed significantly in the third quarter, with coffee and egg prices up at SAARs of 13.0 percent and 32.8 percent, respectively. In addition, prices for bacon and breakfast sausage rose 29.6 percent. Most of the other food at home groups posted modest increases in the third quarter of 2010. Cereals and bakery products rose 2.3 percent, dairy products increased 2.2 percent

If someone eats more breakfast food than others, they may be feeling a much bigger hit at the store as well.

 

[Damocles]

There is no "pretense" in believing the universally accepted source for reporting economic data is accurately reporting economic data, particularly where the reporting is of such excruciating detail that it can easily be verified or refudiated and the only reason that you personally object to it is that the reported national average is not consistent with your personal experience and does not support your political views.

It's just silly. Extremely silly. In fact, it's Glenn Beckian nuttiness. At least he gets paid for it. What's your excuse?

I would say I'm disappointed in you, too, but it's pretty much par for the course for you.


Edit: And, like I said, you can compare your personal experience with the reported regional averages for your groceries if you really were skeptical of the BLS report. If you wait until January you can get Denver-Boulder specific average price reports as opposed to the broader West region.

Yes, one can compare their experience with what they see reported and decide if trust in the report is merited.

I did tell you that you are welcome to your opinion of my "nuttiness," I really don't care other than I'd like to convince others to explore direct evidence over what is reported. In short, one shouldn't believe something solely because they have been told by the government that it is true. Trust, but verify. I believe that my stance is reasonable, even if you want to believe reports over experience.

 

[Bonestorm]

Yes, one can compare their experience with what they see reported and decide if trust in the report is merited.

What you are doing is saying that the reported national averages are wrong because prices at a single grocer in Colorado for food items that you personally purchase have increased more than the reported national average. That's fucking stupid.

I did tell you that you are welcome to your opinion of my "nuttiness," I really don't care other than I'd like to convince others to explore direct evidence over what is reported. In short, one shouldn't believe something solely because they have been told by the government that it is true.

Well, on the flip side of that particular coin one shouldn't discount the meticulous and detailed reports of a respected government source of information because one's personal experience is at odds with the reported national average.

By the way, aren't you the guy that gets upset when someone attacks a source of information? Hilarious.

Like I said, at least Glenn Beck gets paid for peddling this garbage. What's your excuse?

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

What you are doing is saying that the reported national averages are wrong because prices at a single grocer in Colorado for food items that you personally purchase have increased more than the reported national average. That's fucking stupid.

Or his experience is on par with what the CPI report stated. The price of breakfast foods are up (dramatically in some cases). The price of meats are up 5.9%. yeah... I can see why that may be impacting the typical shopper. Because while fruit prices have dropped dramatically, they are still too high for many people on low to middle incomes to buy.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

Cost of living is why federal workers get a raise, why do the good Senators get a raise every year, they aren't unionized! Federal employees have to be paid as well as private industry or they leave. Do you want dumber people than we already have running the government?

Senators and representatives get a raise according to the COLA. Federal government workers are probably under some different formula.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

This is the Republican approach to deficit cutting. Just cut a bunch of random small projects that you can throw up some populist outrage over, and use that to cover up the fact that the deficit is still fucking huge.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

ECI goes up.... so government workers get a raise... so taxes go up to pay for the raise... so private sector demands more to compensate for higher taxes... so ECI goes up... so government workers get a raise... so taxes go up to pay for the raise... so private sector demands more to compensate for higher taxes... so ECI goes up... so government workers get a raise... so taxes go up to pay for the raise... so private sector demands more to compensate for higher taxes... so ECI goes up...

This is so utterly retarded that I don't even know where to start.