What can be done

Mott the Hoople said:
He also thinks Obama is a secret Muslim born in Kenya. Keep in mind, Dixie was the biggest supporter of the vast national train wreck that was George W. Bush so....he doesn't exactly have a lot of credibility. I mean we've seen what his idea of good governance is. Dropping the ball on terrorism, immoral wars of aggression and being asleep at the wheel while an entire city drowns and our economy collapses. This is what Dixie considers to be good government. LOL
Click to expand...
Thanks, I do keep forgetting that he has pin ups of George on his man cave walls!
 
Rana said:
You think Obama is anti business, ahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah, oh, god that was good.
Click to expand...

Glad you thought it was funny, wasn't Obama the first president to put the US Chamber of Commerce on the Terror Watch List or something? This administration has orchestrated an all-out war against capitalism since Day 1, which is the reason there are no jobs being created and no economic private sector growth to speak of.

Mott the Hoople said:
He also thinks Obama is a secret Muslim born in Kenya. Keep in mind, Dixie was the biggest supporter of the vast national train wreck that was George W. Bush so....he doesn't exactly have a lot of credibility. I mean we've seen what his idea of good governance is. Dropping the ball on terrorism, immoral wars of aggression and being asleep at the wheel while an entire city drowns and our economy collapses. This is what Dixie considers to be good government. LOL
Click to expand...

I don't think Obama is a Muslim or a Christian, I think he is an Atheist, and doesn't want to admit it. I think he is sympathetic to radical Muslims, as well as Liberation Theologists like Rev. Wright. I don't know where he was born, it's odd he can't produce a credible birth certificate to prove that. I would like to think he was born in Hawaii, and is not an illegal president. As for your laundry list of digs at Bush, A.) Obama doesn't realize there is a ball to drop! B.) Obama extended both those wars. C.) Obama was asleep at the wheel while a whole gulf coast region drowned in OIL! D.) And unemployment remains the highest it has been in 35 years!
 
Mott the Hoople said:
You make some good points but I don't agree with you completely. First of all, were all in this together and working together we can make good things happen.

First lets look at what the problem with unemployment is? The problem with unemployment is that the jobs situation in this nation has changed drastically. It's no longer labor oriented but skills oriented. We currently have about 5 million jobs in this nation that are going unfilled because there are not enough people with the skills to fill those positions. If we could fill those jobs that would drop unemployment down to a reasonable 5% (approx). We need to fix that, we need to find some way to increase the training and educational oppurtunities so that these jobs can be filled. The economic spin off from that alone would be substantial.
Click to expand...
Yes, there is a problem with skills falling behind needs. But that has been a constant problem since industrialization. And while addressing the problem has great potential, it still leave us in a situation where too much employment is dependent on an unstable market. The more people who become self reliant for their income, the more stable the overall economy will become, which in turn will allow us the ability to put more into addressing other concerns WITHOUT adding to the already anchor-around-the-ankle-of-a-drowning-man national debt.

Mott the Hoople said:
To do that several things need to happen. Those who are unemployed with old skill sets or from labor intensive jobs have to accept personal accountability in that they must do the work and make the sacrifices to learn new jobs skills that make them marketable again or at the least upgrade the skills they do have to make them more current.

To help these people a combination of public and private support would help. Now don't get me wrong, the individual needs to do the work to learn new skills but I see no problem with the government providing these people support as long as those being assisted demonstrate measurable progress in gaining education and new jobs skills. We should also provide incentives, such at tax cuts or exemptions, to industry/business for providing skills training to fill these positions internally. It would require a sizable investment but history has shown, using for example the GI Bill, that the return on investment would be huge. I see a lot to be gained from such a collaboration between individuals, the Government and Business/Industry to promote jobs and skills training and education. It's a win/win situation that can realize a huge return on investment.
Click to expand...
Not bad. Just one question: how would unemployment benefits play into this? Do we modify requirements from the now pitiful "did you look for work this week?"

Mott the Hoople said:
Another good idea is public works. That is an ivestment that usually pays off well too but if we really want something like that to succeed it has to be not only a very large national project but a forward thinking one. Some historical precedence that I would give in which such projects had immeasurable benefits, economic and otherwise, would be The Intercontinental Railroad, The Panama Canal and The Space Race/Manned Moon missions. I would be all for such a forward thinking national project. One that I can think of that has potential is a national project to have our nation energy dependent and off foreign oil by 2025. Say a national Manhattan project for energy independence. We can put a lot of people to work, create economic wealth and promote strategic and security goals that energy independence would provide.
Click to expand...
I cannot fully agree with this. While public works is one of the better uses of our tax money, using such to build the economy ends up with a dependency on them, and that cannot be held up indefinitely. I do not object to the idea that government can work with industry to assist in problem areas like the gap between skills and job requirements, using public works as a means to grow the economy is the opposite of that - it is dependency on government itself to directly provide, not to mention that pesky deficit/national debt problem. That is the big mistake we have been making since turn of the last century. Public works should be viewed as more icing on the cake in a healthy economy. They should be fully paid for before they even start, and should not be viewed as an essential part of the economy.

Mott the Hoople said:
So there's a lot to be said for individual effort and accountability and I'm all for it but it would be a big mistake to discount the positive role both government and business/industry can provide if all three sectors were to collaborate for this common goal.
Click to expand...
I did not say we should simply turn our backs on government, or big business. They most obviously have their place. What I said was we need to quit depending on them to solve our economic woes. As it sits right now, we have literally millions of people sitting around, dependent on government to assist them while they wait for big business to put them back to work. And while your proposal to create a system that helps close the skills gap is not without merit, in the end that is still another situation of the people depending on government to help them out while they wait for big business to provide them with a job.

Every time the economy goes in a slump, the focus is on government programs combined with tax breaks and outright corporate welfare to get things going again, while the people wait around for the various ideas to take hold. People need to start being more self sufficient instead of looking to someone else to solve their (and our) problems. We have become, way too much, a society of dependency. Dependency on government programs to provide us in times of need (programs which purposely KEEP way too many in need); and dependency on big business to provide our jobs. Either way, people are looking to others for their own well being. And the problem with that is the others they are looking to are only interested in securing more wealth and power for themselves at the expense of the people. If it helps provide people with an income, that is just a happy coincidence, and often all too temporary.

Our real strength in the past has been the people themselves providing for themselves. That has always been the real strength of a free society. With diminished use of that strength comes diminished freedom. But, it can once again become our real strength, if we but simply choose to use it. You mentioned trying to close the skills gap. If we are going to do that, why not include a focus on skills that would help people create and/or operate their own business?

One does not have to be an entrepreneur to make their own job. When is the last time you had to hire a plumber? Or an electrician? How easy is it to get one on a same day basis (without taking out a fifth mortgage)? I don't know about you, but I have to make an appointment a good week in advance if I need my mechanic. (With modern engines, gone are the days of the home mechanic!) The thing is, we are still, very much, a land of opportunity. But, it takes work, and personal responsibility, to take advantage of the opportunities out there. The problem with big government programs and big business solutions is they squelch personal responsibility in favor of waiting for someone else to fix things for us.
 
Rana said:
Isn't Wal Mart the largest employee in America, or have they been replaced?
Click to expand...

There's over a hundred million U.S. Citizens working.

How many does Wal Mart employ in this country? (Just curious)

There is no union as well.:)
 
Liberty said:
There's over a hundred million U.S. Citizens working.

How many does Wal Mart employ in this country? (Just curious)

There is no union as well.:)
Click to expand...
It use to be in the millions, I am sure the government is still a big employer, also!
 
Liberty said:
A very small % combined,,,,, compared to Mom and Pops.
Click to expand...
I really can't find too many stats! but you are right and those numbers include the self employed, so I have to concede and after the Pittsburgh game, I don't even remember what point I was trying not to make ;)
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Now, what I reject is this "laissez faire" mentality. We may have a great degree of regulation in this nation to protect the public, consumers, workers and other stake holders but considering the advantages of the infrastructure and public services available at an incredibly low rate of taxation compared to most of the industrialized world not to mention on of the most skilled work forces in the world the US has the most business friendly climate in the world. What your asking isn't job creation, ya'll want slave creation. Fuck that.
Click to expand...

I can't relate to your view on slave creation. Unless I'm the slave. What am I if I'm at the mercy of the state? Pushed away from oppertunity. Rejected.

I try not to base others examples of how the rest of the worlds decline is a good measuring standard for what is right legislatively in this country.

I ask you again, "Is 99% of the gross profits a company takes in per annum,,,,,,,,,, to much to ask for from a business, or an individual"?
 
Rana said:
I really can't find too many stats! but you are right and those numbers include the self employed, so I have to concede and after the Pittsburgh game, I don't even remember what point I was trying not to make ;)
Click to expand...

I enjoyed the game very much.

It was a great way to end the weekend.

I know that christiefan915 is :).

Now if only Brady can win.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
He said fix the problem not make if worse. Why the fuck would we vote for the people that drove us into the ditch in the first place?

Now I'm not to happy that Dems haven't exactly gotten us out of the ditch more quickly but I aint exactly forgotten it was incompetent Republican ideologues that got us into this fucking mess in the first place.
Click to expand...

How many times are you going to repeat that idiotic analogy?

The Reps did not drive us in the ditch...

the idiots in DC (both reps AND dems) and on Wall Street did.

You always ignore the FACT that this fiasco started long before your hatred of Bush began.

It began with the Fair lending bullshit, escalated with the repeal of Glass Steagall, went into ludicrous speed with Greenspan keeping rates low for far far too long, yet NEITHER party did ANYTHING to help. Instead, they made matters worse allowing the SEC to remove the uptick rule.

Amazing that the downturn started shortly thereafter... once the hedge funds and computer trading systems were able to short the ever living hell out of the market whenever they wanted.

All the while we were being told by many in DC that there weren't any problems....

If you want to stick to the 'they drove us in a ditch' analogy, just remember, the Dems were in the passenger seat handing the Reps one shot of whiskey after another.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Oh that's utter non-sense. There's not a business owner in the world that doesn't want to be completely unregulated, that is, until someone does something that hurts their business, then they want them regulated (but not themselves of course). What your suggesting is pure hypocrisy. As a citizen of this nation I have certain rights, including my property rights and if your business can't deal with the regulations put in place to protect my rights, then please feel free to leave, in fact, don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.

It is the business of business to maximize profits. If that means my rights have to be sacrificed so they can profit then they would have no moral qualms in doing so. This is why we have regulations.

Business people like you just described disgust the hell out of me. They want to mooch off of all our public assets, services and infrastructure but cry like little babies when they are forced to play by the rules and are asked to pay for their fair share of public services that they profit hugely from.

Well here's the golden rule of doing business in America pal, "Ass, gas or grass, No one rides for free!"

If they think their going to get a free ride some where else, then they are certainly free to go there. My guess is their in for a big wake up call.
Click to expand...

The complete ignorance of the above is exactly why corporations LEAVE.

Corporations are pieces of paper you twit. Nothing more.

We have the highest corporate taxation rates of any major industrialized nation. THAT is one of the reasons why they leave.

The other primary driver is the fact that they pay FAR too much for labor costs by staying in the US.

When you pay someone 50k + another 25-30k in bene's to screw lugnuts on a car.... you are going to lose money and either relocate or go bankrupt. See GM, Chrysler.

You want to bring labor jobs back to the US.... then put the wages/bene's back in line with where they should be relative to college grads/MBA's. Until then, those labor jobs are going to continually be outsourced.

OR....We need the flat tax with standard deduction. Put the same rate on all income. Eliminate the corporate tax completely. That would provide a great incentive for corps to bring jobs back to the US.
 
Superfreak said:
The complete ignorance of the above is exactly why corporations LEAVE.

Corporations are pieces of paper you twit. Nothing more.

We have the highest corporate taxation rates of any major industrialized nation. THAT is one of the reasons why they leave.

The other primary driver is the fact that they pay FAR too much for labor costs by staying in the US.

When you pay someone 50k + another 25-30k in bene's to screw lugnuts on a car.... you are going to lose money and either relocate or go bankrupt. See GM, Chrysler.

You want to bring labor jobs back to the US.... then put the wages/bene's back in line with where they should be relative to college grads/MBA's. Until then, those labor jobs are going to continually be outsourced.

OR....We need the flat tax with standard deduction. Put the same rate on all income. Eliminate the corporate tax completely. That would provide a great incentive for corps to bring jobs back to the US.
Click to expand...
The Supreme Court doesn't happen to agree with you, they have made them just like you and I, they have a right to free speech just like you and I. They are becoming mor human everyday! Pretty soon, we will become non entities because corporations rule our land! I wish they were as you stated, but they gain more power over us all the time! That is amazing for just paperwork!

This what what these paper items want you to think, that they are being persecuted here in America! I have as much sympathy for them as I do the Christians!
 
Superfreak said:
You want to bring labor jobs back to the US.... then put the wages/bene's back in line with where they should be relative to college grads/MBA's..
Click to expand...

Where should "laborers" fall relative to college grads? maybe there's degree inflation going on with college degrees and they're not really more valuable people.

Maybe YOU'RE the one with the sense of entitlement.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top