Mrs. Santorum

Mott the Hoople said:
Though I essentially agree wtih you....you lack the essential frame of reference. You're not a rural Pennsylvania Catholic. Go to Latin America or the Phillipines. Such attitudes about abortion and birth control are the norm in these Catholic dominated countries.
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I was born and raised a Catholic and went to a primary school run by nuns. I can still remember canings we used to get across the hand.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
This is what a lot of people who were born after Roe Vs. Wade don't get. Prior to that Decision, the Santorums would have had no say what so ever about how her case proceeded. If the Doctor was Catholic and decided to sacrifice her life in an attempt to save the child, that's how it would have gone down and she would have died.

When my mother was in labor and having my sister, in 1966, she was told by her physician. "I should inform you that I'm a Catholic and if there's a problem I will save the child.". My mothers's thoughts were "Oh great! Now you tell me!" Fortunately my sister was born with out incident and my parents immeadiatly switched to another family physician.
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Yeah, I have heard some stories from my mom and aunts. It's just chilling.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
This is what a lot of people who were born after Roe Vs. Wade don't get. Prior to that Decision, the Santorums would have had no say what so ever about how her case proceeded. If the Doctor was Catholic and decided to sacrifice her life in an attempt to save the child, that's how it would have gone down and she would have died.

When my mother was in labor and having my sister, in 1966, she was told by her physician. "I should inform you that I'm a Catholic and if there's a problem I will save the child.". My mothers's thoughts were "Oh great! Now you tell me!" Fortunately my sister was born with out incident and my parents immeadiatly switched to another family physician.
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Something they should be required to tell you beforehand... I mean, at the moment you get the news you have no option? That sucks.
 
Aoxomoxoa said:
I got this from Think Progress, can you tell me if any of these are incorrect?

Rick Santorum’s surprising second-place finish in Iowa comes after months of dogged campaigning throughout the state’s 99 counties and more than 350 town halls. ThinkProgress tracked the former Pennsylvania senator throughout this period and has compiled a list of his top 10 most outrageous claims:

1) ANNUL ALL SAME-SEX MARRIAGES: Arguing that gay relationships “destabilize” society, Santorum wouldn’t offer any legal protections to gay relationships and has pledged to annul all same-sex marriages if elected president. During his 99-country tour of Iowa, Santorum frequently compared same-sex relationships to inanimate objects like trees, basketballs, beer, and paper towels and even tried to blame the economic crisis on gay people. As Santorum explained back in August, religious people have a constitutional right to discriminate against gays: “We have a right the Constitution of religious liberty but now the courts have created a super-right that’s above a right that’s actually in the Constitution, and that’s of sexual liberty. And I think that’s a wrong, that’s a destructive element.”

2) ‘I’M FOR INCOME INEQUALITY’: “They talk about income inequality. I’m for income inequality,” Santorum said during an event in Pella, Iowa in December. “I think some people should make more than other people, because some people work harder and have better ideas and take more risk, and they should be rewarded for it. I have no problem with income inequality.”

3) CONTRACEPTION IS ‘A LICENSE TO DO THINGS’: Santorum has pledged to repeal all federal funding for contraception and allow the states to outlaw birth control, insisting that “it’s a license to do things in a sexual realm that is counter to how things are supposed to be.”

4) GAY SOLDIERS ‘CAUSE PROBLEMS FOR PEOPLE LIVING IN CLOSE QUARTERS’: During an appearance on Fox News Sunday in October, Santorum defended his support for Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell by arguing that gay soldiers would disrupt the military because “they’re in close quarters, they live with people, they obviously shower with people.” He also suggested that “there are people who were gay and lived the gay lifestyle and aren’t anymore.”

5) OBAMA SHOULD OPPOSE ABORTION BECAUSE HE’S BLACK: During an appearance on Christian television in January, Santorum said he was surprised that President Obama didn’t know when life began — given his skin color. “I find it almost remarkable for a black man to say ‘now we are going to decide who are people and who are not people,” he explained.

6) WE DON’T NEED FOOD STAMPS BECAUSE OBESITY RATES ARE SO HIGH: Speaking in Le Mars, Iowa in December, Santorum promised to significantly reduce federal funding for food stamps, arguing that the nation’s increasing obesity rates render the program unnecessary.

7) ABORTION EXCEPTIONS TO PROTECT WOMEN’S HEALTH ARE ‘PHONY’: While discussing his track record as a champion of the partial birth abortion ban in June, Santorum dismissed exceptions other senators wanted to carve out to protect the life and health of mothers, calling such exceptions “phony.” “They wanted a health exception, which of course is a phony exception which would make the ban ineffective,” he said.

8) HEALTH REFORM WILL KILL MY CHILD: Santorum, who claims that Obamacare motivated him to run for president, told reporters in April that his daughter Bella — who was born with a genetic abnormality — wouldn’t survive in a country with “socialized medicine.” “Children like Bella are not given the treatment that other children are given.”

9) UNINSURED AMERICANS SHOULD SPEND LESS ON CELL-PHONE BILLS: During a meeting with the editorial board of the Des Moines Register in August, Santorum said that people who can’t afford health care should stop whining about the high costs of medical treatments and medications and spend less on non essentials. Answering a question about the uninsured, Santorum explained that health care, like a car, is a luxury resource that is rationed by society and recalled the story of a woman who said she was spending $200 a month on life-saving prescriptions. Santorum told her to stop complaining and instead lower her cable and cell phone bills.

10) INSURERS SHOULD DISCRIMINATE AGAINST PEOPLE WITH PRE-EXISTING CONDITIONS: Santorum sounded like a representative from the health insurance industry when he addressed a small group of high school students in Merrimack, New Hampshire in December. The former Pennsylvania senator not only defended insurers for denying coverage to people with pre-existing conditions, he also argued that individuals who are sick should pay higher premiums because they cost more money to insure.

http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2012/...ost-outrageous-campaign-statements/?mobile=nc
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all excellent examples of taking a statement he DID make and turning it into a statement he didn't make......thanks for proving my point about liberals....
 
Mott the Hoople said:
When my mother was in labor and having my sister, in 1966, she was told by her physician. "I should inform you that I'm a Catholic and if there's a problem I will save the child.". My mothers's thoughts were "Oh great! Now you tell me!" Fortunately my sister was born with out incident and my parents immeadiatly switched to another family physician.
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and I suppose you're going to pretend he meant he would let her die to save the life of the child......I love the way liberals prove my case......
 
Aoxomoxoa said:
So were you there as an eye witness?
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I'm sorry?....are you pretending you were?....I know what Catholics believe and it isn't that they will kill the mother to save the life of the child....it's that they will work to save both......

it's really quite simple.....most likely, you are lying about what the doctor said to your mother......next most likely, you misunderstood what your mother told you the doctor said.....third, your mother misunderstood what the doctor was saying......then, though I do not intend to cast aspersions on your mother, your mother has lied about what the doctor said.........that, or since the War of the Roses was still going on when you were born that the doctor (being a Catholic) was willing to off your mother who was a protestant......
 
PostmodernProphet said:
I'm sorry?....are you pretending you were?....I know what Catholics believe and it isn't that they will kill the mother to save the life of the child....it's that they will work to save both......
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Yes and so do I, having been brought up as a Catholic as I've already stated. Any doctor would try to save both but as Mott is saying, if there was a choice between saving the baby or the mother many would choose the baby.
 
Aoxomoxoa said:
I was born and raised a Catholic and went to a primary school run by nuns. I can still remember canings we used to get across the hand.
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Yea.....I know most of my Catholic class mates in high school attended Catholic grammer schools and had a very healthy fear for the Penguins. Since I didn't have that experience I had no fear of them and the nuns who taught in my high school in rural Ohio were uniformly well educated and highly skilled educators. I got along with them quite well but then again I didn't have to share their beliefs.
 
Aoxomoxoa said:
Yes and so do I, having been brought up as a Catholic as I've already stated. Any doctor would try to save both but as Mott is saying, if there was a choice between saving the baby or the mother many would choose the baby.
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Err on the side of future life, save the mother... However such philosophies should be offered earlier in the Pregnancy than when they start to "push" so they can find a doctor that shares their view. "Many" would agree and choose one doctor, others would disagree and choose another.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
and I suppose you're going to pretend he meant he would let her die to save the life of the child......I love the way liberals prove my case......
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Well what the hell else did you think he meant? There wasn't much grey area here pal and you seem to have completely missed the point that, It's not "Who lived and who died" it's "Who get's to make the fucking decision!!!!"

Back then it was unilaterally the physicians decision. You, the pregnant patient and her family, had no legal say what so ever.

Boy you kool-aid drinking extremist sure do have an amazing ability to miss the obvious.
 
Darla said:
I didn't know about this.

I don't have anything else to say about it other than I didn't know about it, and it's interesting information.


"Let's get down to brass tacks: Presidential candidate Rick Santorum, Personhood Pledge-signing, Griswold vs. Connecticut-opposing, Mr. Ban Abortion in All Circumstances With No Exception for the Life of the Mother, believes that the actions of his own wife should be treated as criminal. Why? Because, back in 1996, his wife had a procedure that resulted in the deliberate death of her fetus, even though it was a matter of saving her own life.

Karen Santorum's difficult pregnancy and resultant life-saving, induced early delivery is no secret; in a 2004 interview with NPR's Terry Gross, her husband characterized the 1996 procedure as a harrowing but necessary. Karen, in her 19th week of pregnancy, received a risky surgery to save a pregnancy that doctors thought had little chance of survival. After the surgery, she came down with an infection, and doctors told Rick that unless the source of the infection — the fetus — was removed, his wife would die and his already-born children would be motherless. The doctor also told Santorum that his wife's fetus would not survive outside of the womb. According to Santorum, Karen went into labor as a result of the antibiotics, and then doctors gave her a drug that further induced labor. She delivered, and unfortunately the doctors were right.

Shortly after Santorum first talked to the press about his wife's pregnancy and their subsequent loss, rumors began circulating that Karen had actually had an abortion rather than induced delivery. Our Silver Ribbon goes so far as to assert that Karen Santorum did, in fact, have a second-trimester abortion.

But whether or not Karen Santorum had an abortion or medically induced the birth of a non-viable fetus shouldn't matter in the eyes of someone with views as extreme as Santorum, as he is one of a disturbingly large group of politicians who believe that women should not be allowed to abort under any circumstances. Santorum's even against abortion if there were no hope of the fetus surviving to full term, or even if the woman carrying the fetus risked death doing so. Karen Santorum would have died if the fetus were not removed, and labor was induced and not halted knowing that the fetus would not survive. How is this not technically "abortion?" In Santorum's world, it would probably qualify as infanticide.

The hairsplitting debate over whether Karen Santorum had an abortion only serves to expose the ridiculousness of Rick Santorum's extremism. In his view, it's absolutely not okay for a woman to have doctors remove her life-threatening pregnancy for her, but it is okay for a woman to deliver a fetus well before viability so that the child can die slowly, in open air, as the Good Lord intended? Or is it just not okay for everyone who doesn't happen to be Rick Santorum's wife?

As Rick Santorum gains ground in the polls and commentators increasingly speak of him as if he's not a dangerous, raving zealot, please do remember that Karen Santorum's lifesaving medical intervention is different than the abortions that Santorum wishes to outlaw only in that the woman getting the lifesaving medical intervention was Karen Santorum. His policies would prevent other women from receiving the care they needed, and leave scores of non-Santorum children motherless. If that's not hypocrisy, then I don't know what is.

Full Story.
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Is this the child they then took home to show their other children? I shall have to investigate.
 
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Damocles said:
Err on the side of future life, save the mother... However such philosophies should be offered earlier in the Pregnancy than when they start to "push" so they can find a doctor that shares their view. "Many" would agree and choose one doctor, others would disagree and choose another.
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I'm not sure I understand what you're saying Damo. Why should the physician even have a say at all? It's not his/her life after all.
 
Rana said:
Is this the. Hild they then took home to show their other children? I shall have to investigate.
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Yes, I am pretty sure it is the same child. Most hospitals encourage families to spend time with an infant that is either stillborn or dies shortly after birth. While it is unusual they took the dead child home vs bringing the others to the hospital, it isn't that big of a surprise.
 
Darla said:
The hairsplitting debate over whether Karen Santorum had an abortion only serves to expose the ridiculousness of Rick Santorum's extremism. In his view, it's absolutely not okay for a woman to have doctors remove her life-threatening pregnancy for her, but it is okay for a woman to deliver a fetus well before viability so that the child can die slowly, in open air, as the Good Lord intended? Or is it just not okay for everyone who doesn't happen to be Rick Santorum's wife?
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Vs. Jabbing a sharp metal poker into its head? Yeah... while the doctors informed them that it was not viable, at least you TRY. The odds may be ten trillion to one against you. But you know what... those odds are better than the odds of surviving some jackass scrambling the childs brain with a metal poker.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
I'm not sure I understand what you're saying Damo. Why should the physician even have a say at all? It's not his/her life after all.
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They are not automatons to be forced to do things against their beliefs. Information will allow people to make decisions, saying that the doctor should have no say in his actions is silly when options exist that allow both his beliefs and yours to be followed without force.

Give the right information at the right time and you can choose the right doctor, saying the doctor should be forced to act "this way" or "that" is just misapplied government force.
 
Superfreak said:
Vs. Jabbing a sharp metal poker into its head? Yeah... while the doctors informed them that it was not viable, at least you TRY. The odds may be ten trillion to one against you. But you know what... those odds are better than the odds of surviving some jackass scrambling the childs brain with a metal poker.
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I will say that I agree with him about partial birth abortions but as far as I can see he is against abortion entirely.
 
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