our schools, a problem still in search of a solution

Don Quixote

Don Quixote

cancer survivor
Contributor
a problem that needs a national effort to fix

vouchers and charter schools have had limited success and detract from the public school system

we need a solution and soon or we will go down the drain as a nation

one thing that will help is more respect for teaching and learning

most high school students want as their number one thing is to be famous

we glorify entertainers and sports figures when we need to glorifying learning, small wonder that most students have no respect for learning or people that are learned or intelligent

serious bummer

http://news.yahoo.com/panel-says-problem-schools-hurt-nations-security-200551074.html
 
Don Quixote said:
we glorify entertainers and sports figures when we need to glorifying learning, small wonder that most students have no respect for learning or people that are learned or intelligent
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Or maybe we have a bunch of shitty teachers. I can honestly say I had a fuck ton of them (my CNC teacher is a good current example). They're basically untouchable, so why be good at teaching? We have football coaches shoe-horned into a teaching job, say teaching algebra or history, when they are barely qualified to learn the subject.
 
Johnny Rocketfingers said:
Or maybe we have a bunch of shitty teachers. I can honestly say I had a fuck ton of them (my CNC teacher is a good current example). They're basically untouchable, so why be good at teaching? We have football coaches shoe-horned into a teaching job, say teaching algebra or history, when they are barely qualified to learn the subject.
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But what is a good school? Is it a school with a good exam record, a school that fits its students for life or a school that produces the workers to keep a nations wheels turning?
The failure is when the education experts and the government are 'out of step'. A few years ago we (and you) needed factory workers, now we need people for the service industries and IT and people who can find other things to do with their lives beside working a 40 hour week.
My own opinions are that schools should carve from a basic product, people with the ability to contribute to society in all its forms. Artists and bricklayers, bankers and corner shopkeepers, winners and losers.
I don't think we are doing that.
 
Johnny Rocketfingers said:
Or maybe we have a bunch of shitty teachers. I can honestly say I had a fuck ton of them (my CNC teacher is a good current example). They're basically untouchable, so why be good at teaching? We have football coaches shoe-horned into a teaching job, say teaching algebra or history, when they are barely qualified to learn the subject.
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strange, i had just the opposite experience, i only had two bad teachers between junior high and high school, one each

however, your experience proves my point, finland requires all teachers to have at a minimum a masters degree to qualify as a teacher

also, they have smaller class sizes and nationwide support for their schools
 
Actually, the fact that charter schools and voucher schools have had 'limited success' is something to build upon, not curtail. Mostly these are in impoverished areas, with public schools failing.

Regarding the rest of posts, teachers are one part of the problem, subject matter knowledge a bigger problem, especially in secondary. Don't like the curriculum? Complain both at legislative level and local school board.
 
Don Quixote said:
strange, i had just the opposite experience, i only had two bad teachers between junior high and high school, one each

however, your experience proves my point, finland requires all teachers to have at a minimum a masters degree to qualify as a teacher

also, they have smaller class sizes and nationwide support for their schools
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I think it would be more useful to require some specialization in the subject they teach. If you require masters degrees, most will get masters degrees in education, which are essentially useless and don't contribute much to a good teacher.
 
Alexander Hamilton said:
I think it would be more useful to require some specialization in the subject they teach. If you require masters degrees, most will get masters degrees in education, which are essentially useless and don't contribute much to a good teacher.
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I live in an area with high taxes and teacher salaries. None are employing teachers with MS/MA. That's why I stopped my MS program, two classes short.

The districts will want you to get a masters within 5 years, but will be able to structure steps for new.
 
I think it's very funny when welders and other poor people dump on the education system. It must be somebody's fault other than yours if you are not a big success.
If you didn't kick ass in college, you had weak parents and no self motivation. The rest of you were too dumb to get in.
College is not for everybody.
 
The Dude said:
I think it's very funny when welders and other poor people dump on the education system. It must be somebody's fault other than yours if you are not a big success.
If you didn't kick ass in college, you had weak parents and no self motivation. The rest of you were too dumb to get in.
College is not for everybody.
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I think it's funny for someone who claims to be of higher education speaking (and I don't just mean your atrocious spelling) like Cleatus the Slack Jawed Yokel from The Simpsons. I've met honest to god mentally handicapped people who are smarter then you. People who had strokes able to form a more coherent argument.
 
The Dude said:
I think it's very funny when welders and other poor people dump on the education system. It must be somebody's fault other than yours if you are not a big success.
If you didn't kick ass in college, you had weak parents and no self motivation. The rest of you were too dumb to get in.
College is not for everybody.
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I laugh when those who pretend a college education makes them superior have to pay someone to do those "dumb" jobs that they cannot do. You know, welding, electrical work, ect.

I know plenty of people who have advanced degrees that I wouldn't trust to mow my lawn, and I know plenty with no degree that keep the world running.
 
WinterBorn said:
I laugh when those who pretend a college education makes them superior have to pay someone to do those "dumb" jobs that they cannot do. You know, welding, electrical work, ect.

I know plenty of people who have advanced degrees that I wouldn't trust to mow my lawn, and I know plenty with no degree that keep the world running.
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I know that even working at 1/2 my hours I make more than Top did at my age, and since I don't have a degree, I guess that makes me infinitely more successful than him. Forever.
 
Johnny Rocketfingers said:
I think it's funny for someone who claims to be of higher education speaking (and I don't just mean your atrocious spelling) like Cleatus the Slack Jawed Yokel from The Simpsons. I've met honest to god mentally handicapped people who are smarter then you. People who had strokes able to form a more coherent argument.
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Ive met gun toasting mouth breathing science rejecting rednecks like you before too, need a cookie?
 
Johnny Rocketfingers said:
I know that even working at 1/2 my hours I make more than Top did at my age, and since I don't have a degree, I guess that makes me infinitely more successful than him. Forever.
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I know you didn't excell in school because you are dumb, but yes maybe you had a couple bad teachers( your parents).
 
Don Quixote said:
strange, i had just the opposite experience, i only had two bad teachers between junior high and high school, one each

however, your experience proves my point, finland requires all teachers to have at a minimum a masters degree to qualify as a teacher

also, they have smaller class sizes and nationwide support for their schools
Click to expand...

Is having a masters vs. not having one the difference between a good teacher and bad? All things being equal the better educated teacher is a plus. But there are plenty of people out there who would make great teachers and have years of real world experience but no masters and there are people with masters degrees who still have trouble relating to students and aren't good teachers.

DQ what you are suggesting is the thing that has been suggested forever and that's more money. Yes more money would be great but basically you are saying we cannot reform anything unless we have more money (and there will never be enough money).
 
Alright, this little argument with Top has run its course. So back to the OP.

Anyways, teachers are part of the problem with our educational system, but the very model is fundamentally flawed. It was designed to pump out people for factory work, or government jobs, all to out produce the Commies. Well, now that model doesn't apply, but fuck us if we aren't producing the same kind of high school graduate.
 
Johnny Rocketfingers said:
Or maybe we have a bunch of shitty teachers. I can honestly say I had a fuck ton of them (my CNC teacher is a good current example). They're basically untouchable, so why be good at teaching? We have football coaches shoe-horned into a teaching job, say teaching algebra or history, when they are barely qualified to learn the subject.
Click to expand...

in my high school years I remember one excellent teacher, at least four who knew less about the subjects they taught than I did and the rest were mediocre.....
 
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