APP - 10th amendment revisited

Don Quixote

cancer survivor
Contributor
does requiring people to buy health insurance violate the 10th amendment or any other part of the constitution

i think so, but that ship may have already sailed as there are many instances where the constitution has been breached, with the assistance of the supremes, especially the 10th amendment

there are two ways around this

subsidized publicly offered health insurance

a single payer system

oh well
 
does requiring people to buy health insurance violate the 10th amendment or any other part of the constitution

i think so, but that ship may have already sailed as there are many instances where the constitution has been breached, with the assistance of the supremes, especially the 10th amendment

silly DQ. You should know that the libs and dems in office and out in the public don't give a damn about the constitution anymore.
 
thats a great question. because according to scotus the federal government cannot require the "states" to pay for federal rules etc....i don't know how this plays out for "individuals" though....

in reality, they could do what they do every other time....and that is hold the purse strings and "allow" the states to choose the purse
 
thats a great question. because according to scotus the federal government cannot require the "states" to pay for federal rules etc....i don't know how this plays out for "individuals" though....

in reality, they could do what they do every other time....and that is hold the purse strings and "allow" the states to choose the purse

too true, they will find a way, will it be constitutional - the purse strings bit either is not or should not be
 
too true, they will find a way, will it be constitutional - the purse strings bit either is not or should not be

why not? the states do not have to take federal money....

the states have made themselves reliant on federal money....nothing unconstitutional about that
 
The reliance on federal money does basically have a race to the bottom effect. But if the founders would have disliked that, then it's really a matter of bad design, because the constitution basically allows it.
 
The reliance on federal money does basically have a race to the bottom effect. But if the founders would have disliked that, then it's really a matter of bad design, because the constitution basically allows it.
They designed it so that Senators would be appointed by the States and would act in the interests of the State rather than have to beg for their jobs from constituencies. This was supposed to have the effect to have a check on the exercise of this power. The 17th Amendment put an end to it rather effectively.
 
The reliance on federal money does basically have a race to the bottom effect. But if the founders would have disliked that, then it's really a matter of bad design, because the constitution basically allows it.

They designed it so that Senators would be appointed by the States and would act in the interests of the State rather than have to beg for their jobs from constituencies. This was supposed to have the effect to have a check on the exercise of this power. The 17th Amendment put an end to it rather effectively.

both good points....

states can choose to take the federal money or not. it is as simple as that.

now, if you want to argue whether the feds can tax so much, that they have so much money to "offer" the states "bribe" money, that is a different matter.
 
both good points....

states can choose to take the federal money or not. it is as simple as that.

now, if you want to argue whether the feds can tax so much, that they have so much money to "offer" the states "bribe" money, that is a different matter.
They tax far less than they spend, that's part of a problem that has been ongoing for decades. Bribe with money you have, rather than debt that Watermark isn't good for.
 
They designed it so that Senators would be appointed by the States and would act in the interests of the State rather than have to beg for their jobs from constituencies. This was supposed to have the effect to have a check on the exercise of this power. The 17th Amendment put an end to it rather effectively.

do you think that the 17th amendment should be repealed?
 
do you think that the 17th amendment should be repealed?
Yes. The balance of power was shifted drastically, essentially leaving the states themselves at the mercy of popular democracy. While many would say "so what is wrong with that", those same people seem to forget the design of our government is that of a constitutional republic, not a democracy. A democracy is, by nature, less stable than a republic, and is constantly under the threat of losing individual freedoms in the name of the popular vote. People who promote us as a democracy really need to study up on why the founders chose a constitutional republic instead.

Not only was the idea to create a constitutional republic as opposed to a democracy, the MAIN body of power was supposed to reside with the individual states cooperating with each other through a strictly limited federal government. The 17th Amendment, along with the "Forget what it says and read what we want it to mean" SCOTUS interpretations of the 10th Amendment have screwed that up royally. Today, as a result, we have a bloated, WAY too powerful federal government with the authority to use economic blackmail against the states, leaving them begging with hat in hand to recover at least some of the money paid by their citizens, passing any and every law the Feds decide is a good idea or else lose highway funds, education funds, etc. etc. etc.

It is way fucked up, and the 17th Amendment has played a large role in its devolution to present circumstances.
 
Yes. The balance of power was shifted drastically, essentially leaving the states themselves at the mercy of popular democracy. While many would say "so what is wrong with that", those same people seem to forget the design of our government is that of a constitutional republic, not a democracy. A democracy is, by nature, less stable than a republic, and is constantly under the threat of losing individual freedoms in the name of the popular vote. People who promote us as a democracy really need to study up on why the founders chose a constitutional republic instead.

Not only was the idea to create a constitutional republic as opposed to a democracy, the MAIN body of power was supposed to reside with the individual states cooperating with each other through a strictly limited federal government. The 17th Amendment, along with the "Forget what it says and read what we want it to mean" SCOTUS interpretations of the 10th Amendment have screwed that up royally. Today, as a result, we have a bloated, WAY too powerful federal government with the authority to use economic blackmail against the states, leaving them begging with hat in hand to recover at least some of the money paid by their citizens, passing any and every law the Feds decide is a good idea or else lose highway funds, education funds, etc. etc. etc.

It is way fucked up, and the 17th Amendment has played a large role in its devolution to present circumstances.

i think that the 17th amendment should be repealed

while the big money people will just subvert the legislatures, it will be more public and maybe something could be done about

we also need to eliminate unfunded laws at both the state and federal levels

lets shine more light on the big money people
 
I see it only getting worse. For instance, this health care reform crap. Sure as the south end of a skunk smells bad, there will be federal dollars being distributed to the states. And then the feds will be demanding this, that and the other health-related laws be passed that they could not get past SCOTUS if written at the federal level. Think 55 mph as applied to smoking, healthy eating, etc.
 
thats a great question. because according to scotus the federal government cannot require the "states" to pay for federal rules etc....i don't know how this plays out for "individuals" though....

in reality, they could do what they do every other time....and that is hold the purse strings and "allow" the states to choose the purse
Have you read Amendment IX?
 
I really can't believe you're trying to say that a body which gives a person in Wyoming 50 times the voting power of a Californian leaves us "to the will of the popular vote". There's absolutely no reason that legislatures electing senators would lead to "more stability" or whatever other nonsense you made up. The only likely effect would be that people would start voting for their state legislature based on what senator they promised to put in office.
 
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