11 year old charged with murder. WTF!

apple0154

apple0154

MEOW
An 11-year-old boy is facing murder charges in Indiana after the fatal shooting of his 6-year-old brother on Thursday.

The charges make the boy the youngest person in Indiana to have been charged with murder in over 90 years.

The last time someone so young was charged with murder in Indiana came in the early 1920s, when an 11-year-old was charged with murder and tried as an adult in northwest Indiana's Starke County. That boy was acquitted.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/03/11-year-old-boy-murder-charges_n_889553.html

 
this is the result of liberal attitudes towards crimes/accidents with guns and conservative attitudes towards crime period.

welcome to your new america, land of the formerly free.
 
If an 11 year old has malice aforethought- then murder is an appropriate charge...if it is an accident, I cannot see even an involuntary manslaughter as a charge.
 
Since people under the age of 18 can't consent to sex but can be charged with rape as an adult, clearly they should be charged as accomplices in the rape of themselves in many instances. Put those monsters in prison for life. I will enjoy watching them suffer, suffering which I use to power my vat of evil, which I use to ensure that Republicans win elections.
 
apple0154 said:
An 11-year-old boy is facing murder charges in Indiana after the fatal shooting of his 6-year-old brother on Thursday.

The charges make the boy the youngest person in Indiana to have been charged with murder in over 90 years.

The last time someone so young was charged with murder in Indiana came in the early 1920s, when an 11-year-old was charged with murder and tried as an adult in northwest Indiana's Starke County. That boy was acquitted.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/03/11-year-old-boy-murder-charges_n_889553.html

Click to expand...

Same kind of crap here. An 11-year old shot his dad's girlfriend, and he's going to be tried as an adult.

Authoritarians make me sick.

NEW CASTLE, Pa. -- A 12-year-old boy accused of shooting his father's pregnant fiancée in her sleep will be tried as an adult -- but the prosecution would be open to the idea of moving him to juvenile court if the child changes his story.

Jordan Brown was 11 when state police said he used a youth shotgun to shoot 26-year-old Kenzie Houk in her bed in the family's Wampum home in February 2009. He is charged with first-degree homicide.

Read more: http://www.wtae.com/news/22986994/detail.html#ixzz1RWWSj9fO
 
Ice Dancer said:
If an 11 year old has malice aforethought- then murder is an appropriate charge...if it is an accident, I cannot see even an involuntary manslaughter as a charge.
Click to expand...

In all likelihood there was malice aforethought, described as "a predetermination to commit an unlawful act without just cause or provocation (applied chiefly to cases of first-degree murder)", as the victim was sleeping at the time but can an 11 year old really form such in his mind?

As Watermark notes an 11 year old can consent to sex but can an 11 year old really give consent? As a society we say they can't. They are not old enough to understand and I think that should apply to this case. The 11 year old may have planned the murder but does he comprehend the significance of it?

Again, in the case of sex, an 11 year old may agree to sex but we know they don't understand the ramifications.
 
christiefan915 said:
Same kind of crap here. An 11-year old shot his dad's girlfriend, and he's going to be tried as an adult.

Authoritarians make me sick.

NEW CASTLE, Pa. -- A 12-year-old boy accused of shooting his father's pregnant fiancée in her sleep will be tried as an adult -- but the prosecution would be open to the idea of moving him to juvenile court if the child changes his story.

Jordan Brown was 11 when state police said he used a youth shotgun to shoot 26-year-old Kenzie Houk in her bed in the family's Wampum home in February 2009. He is charged with first-degree homicide.

Read more: http://www.wtae.com/news/22986994/detail.html#ixzz1RWWSj9fO
Click to expand...

(Excerpt from article) If found guilty as an adult, Brown faces a sentence of life in prison.(End)

It's absurd to sentence a 12 year old to life in prison. If/when eligible for parole in 25 years (?) what kind of human being is he going to be? How could he possibly adjust to life outside?

What a bizarre world we live in.
 
apple0154 said:
In all likelihood there was malice aforethought, described as "a predetermination to commit an unlawful act without just cause or provocation (applied chiefly to cases of first-degree murder)", as the victim was sleeping at the time but can an 11 year old really form such in his mind?

As Watermark notes an 11 year old can consent to sex but can an 11 year old really give consent? As a society we say they can't. They are not old enough to understand and I think that should apply to this case. The 11 year old may have planned the murder but does he comprehend the significance of it?

Again, in the case of sex, an 11 year old may agree to sex but we know they don't understand the ramifications.
Click to expand...


Watermarks analogy was specious. There are instances where 11 year old's or younger (Mary Bell 10) are little sociopaths and can and do commit murder- extrapolating that to include all 11 year old's is stupid. To further then suggest that if an 11 year old can kill in cold blood is = to all 11 year old's being able to consent to sex is even stupider.
 
Ice Dancer said:
Watermarks analogy was specious. There are instances where 11 year old's or younger (Mary Bell 10) are little sociopaths and can and do commit murder- extrapolating that to include all 11 year old's is stupid. To further then suggest that if an 11 year old can kill in cold blood is = to all 11 year old's being able to consent to sex is even stupider.
Click to expand...

I think Watermark is pointing out that if we conclude an 11 year old can be held responsible for killing someone, that they were aware of the consequences of their actions simply by the fact they did it, why wouldn't that apply to anything they do?

As a side note "sociopathy is a loosely-defined term that may be used to refer to antisocial personality disorder, psychopathy and dissocial personality disorder. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociopathy

Also, "The only treatment is the prevention of the disorder in the early stages, when a child first begins to show the symptoms of conduct disorder." http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html

It seems to me society's first obligation is to seek treatment for a child, not concern itself with whether a child can be criminally charged as an adult. Also, as the definition states, it's a disorder. A mental disorder. Are we still so barbaric a society that we punish mentally ill individuals?
 
apple0154 said:
I think Watermark is pointing out that if we conclude an 11 year old can be held responsible for killing someone, that they were aware of the consequences of their actions simply by the fact they did it, why wouldn't that apply to anything they do?

As a side note "sociopathy is a loosely-defined term that may be used to refer to antisocial personality disorder, psychopathy and dissocial personality disorder. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociopathy

Also, "The only treatment is the prevention of the disorder in the early stages, when a child first begins to show the symptoms of conduct disorder." http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html

It seems to me society's first obligation is to seek treatment for a child, not concern itself with whether a child can be criminally charged as an adult. Also, as the definition states, it's a disorder. A mental disorder. Are we still so barbaric a society that we punish mentally ill individuals?
Click to expand...

I understood what Wm was saying and it's no less specious and stupid coming from you. If an 11 year old is a sociopath to the degree that they commit murder, is not an argument for all 11 year old's to consent to sex...that's inane and can't be called any kind of real logic.

Premeditated murder by a child, due to a sociopath drive, is thankfully rare-but that is not equal to non existent. I do agree that adult prison is not the place for them-neither is juvenile detention. A state legislature really needs to come up with trial procedures and penalties for such cases that other states can then adopt.
 
Ice Dancer said:
I understood what Wm was saying and it's no less specious and stupid coming from you. If an 11 year old is a sociopath to the degree that they commit murder, is not an argument for all 11 year old's to consent to sex...that's inane and can't be called any kind of real logic.
Click to expand...

Eh, I think you have that backwards. The argument is if an 11 year old is not, under any circumstances, mature enough to consent to sex then they are not, under any circumstances, mature enough to be be charged and tried as an adult for murder.

As Watermark noted murder is much more serious than sex so it implies greater mental planning and cognition.

If I recall the article mentions the child tried to hide the crime by replacing the gun in the cupboard and picking up the empty shell. He, also, threw the shell on the lawn as he walked from the house to the street. Is the latter the actions of an adult trying to hide something?
 
Ice Dancer said:
Premeditated murder by a child, due to a sociopath drive, is thankfully rare-but that is not equal to non existent. I do agree that adult prison is not the place for them-neither is juvenile detention. A state legislature really needs to come up with trial procedures and penalties for such cases that other states can then adopt.
Click to expand...

Why not juvenile detention? At 11 year of age the child would spend the next 7 years being rehabilitated. Are you suggesting 7 years confinement is not sufficient?
 
apple0154 said:
Why not juvenile detention? At 11 year of age the child would spend the next 7 years being rehabilitated. Are you suggesting 7 years confinement is not sufficient?
Click to expand...

Because we also have a responsibility to protect juvenile offenders who are not sociopaths. In the case of Mary Bell for instance, she "enjoyed" killing and mutilating young boys- You don't put someone like that in with kids who committed burglary. You commit them to a hospital institution. I am not sure, as I am not an expert in childhood psychopathy, but I would think that experts could determine length of time for commitment.
 
apple0154 said:
Eh, I think you have that backwards. The argument is if an 11 year old is not, under any circumstances, mature enough to consent to sex then they are not, under any circumstances, mature enough to be be charged and tried as an adult for murder.

As Watermark noted murder is much more serious than sex so it implies greater mental planning and cognition.

If I recall the article mentions the child tried to hide the crime by replacing the gun in the cupboard and picking up the empty shell. He, also, threw the shell on the lawn as he walked from the house to the street. Is the latter the actions of an adult trying to hide something?
Click to expand...

I have already stated that I do not think adult proceedings are the right way to handle a child murderer. Maturity or lack thereof, has absolutely nothing to do with it. That said, until legislation is created to handle child murderer's you don't then say oh well let us allow 11 year old's to consent to sex...that's inane and moronic non-logic.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top