37 years later, America is still killing innocent people in Laos

Bfgrn

Bfgrn

New member
If you haven't had a chance to see this documentary, it is a must. PBS runs it on occasion. The saddest part of the saga is children are the most vulnerable, because they are attracted to the 'bombies'.

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Cluster bombs are small explosive bomblets carried in a large cannister that opens in mid-air, scattering them over a wide area. The bomblets may be delivered by aircraft, rocket, or by artillery projectiles.

The CBU (cluster bomb unit) 26, which was widely used in Laos, is an anti-personnel fragmentation bomb that consists of a large bombshell holding 670 tennis ball-sized bomblets, each of which contain 300 metal fragments. If all the bomblets detonate, some 200,000 steel fragments will be propelled over an area the size of several football fields, creating a deadly killing zone.

The Consequences
Wherever they been used - Laos, Vietnam, Cambodia, Sudan, Lebanon, Iraq, Kuwait, Yugoslavia, Kosovo, Ethiopia, Chechnya, and Afghanistan, unexploded cluster bombs have created problems for civilians:

* During the Gulf War over 30 million cluster bomblets were dropped on Kuwait and Iraq and, in the following months, unexploded bombs killed 1,600 civilians and injured another 2,500.

* According to a recent study by the Red Cross, children in Kosovo are five times more likely to be killed or injured by a NATO-dropped unexploded cluster bomb than by a Serbian landmine.

* Today, in Afghanistan, reports indicate that the U.S. use of cluster bombs is causing the same kinds of tragic consequences for civilians there as they did in other countries. Because cluster bombs are area weapons with a wide dispersal pattern, they kill living things indiscriminately, including civilians. And their high-failure rate means that the killing of innocent people will continue long after the bombs stop dropping.

Cluster Bombs Today
Their current use in Afghanistan is helping to focus the world's attention on cluster bombs. Many feel that their impact on civilians is unacceptable and a breach of international humanitarian law. More than 50 international organizations, including the International Committee of the Red Cross, the Mennonite Central Committee, Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International and the International Committee to Ban Landmines have called for a moratorium on cluster bomb use. And, in spite of the fact that cluster bombs are one of the favorite and most deadly weapons in the U.S. and NATO arsenals, on December 13, 2001 the European Parliament passed a resolution calling for an immediate global moratorium on their use to be followed by an outright ban.

ITVS: Bombies

It is the job of thinking people not to be on the side of the executioners.
Albert Camus
 
Bfgrn said:
If you haven't had a chance to see this documentary, it is a must. PBS runs it on occasion. The saddest part of the saga is children are the most vulnerable, because they are attracted to the 'bombies'.

hmImages.jpg

hmTxt.gif


phBombs2.jpg
phStory_2.jpg


Cluster bombs are small explosive bomblets carried in a large cannister that opens in mid-air, scattering them over a wide area. The bomblets may be delivered by aircraft, rocket, or by artillery projectiles.

The CBU (cluster bomb unit) 26, which was widely used in Laos, is an anti-personnel fragmentation bomb that consists of a large bombshell holding 670 tennis ball-sized bomblets, each of which contain 300 metal fragments. If all the bomblets detonate, some 200,000 steel fragments will be propelled over an area the size of several football fields, creating a deadly killing zone.

The Consequences
Wherever they been used - Laos, Vietnam, Cambodia, Sudan, Lebanon, Iraq, Kuwait, Yugoslavia, Kosovo, Ethiopia, Chechnya, and Afghanistan, unexploded cluster bombs have created problems for civilians:

* During the Gulf War over 30 million cluster bomblets were dropped on Kuwait and Iraq and, in the following months, unexploded bombs killed 1,600 civilians and injured another 2,500.

* According to a recent study by the Red Cross, children in Kosovo are five times more likely to be killed or injured by a NATO-dropped unexploded cluster bomb than by a Serbian landmine.

* Today, in Afghanistan, reports indicate that the U.S. use of cluster bombs is causing the same kinds of tragic consequences for civilians there as they did in other countries. Because cluster bombs are area weapons with a wide dispersal pattern, they kill living things indiscriminately, including civilians. And their high-failure rate means that the killing of innocent people will continue long after the bombs stop dropping.

Cluster Bombs Today
Their current use in Afghanistan is helping to focus the world's attention on cluster bombs. Many feel that their impact on civilians is unacceptable and a breach of international humanitarian law. More than 50 international organizations, including the International Committee of the Red Cross, the Mennonite Central Committee, Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International and the International Committee to Ban Landmines have called for a moratorium on cluster bomb use. And, in spite of the fact that cluster bombs are one of the favorite and most deadly weapons in the U.S. and NATO arsenals, on December 13, 2001 the European Parliament passed a resolution calling for an immediate global moratorium on their use to be followed by an outright ban.

ITVS: Bombies

It is the job of thinking people not to be on the side of the executioners.
Albert Camus
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I occasionally read where they still find bombs from WW II in Europe and French landmines in Vietnam. so why aren't you bitching about those also?
*rhetorical question; because Big Fucking Grin only hates America*
 
USFREEDOM911 said:
I occasionally read where they still find bombs from WW II in Europe and French landmines in Vietnam. so why aren't you bitching about those also?
*rhetorical question; because Big Fucking Grin only hates America*
Click to expand...

From what I've heard from you so far, you're not capable of loving anything. Probably the person you hate the most is the one you see in the mirror every day. I feel sorry for people raised by wolves.

I love my children, but that doesn't mean I make excuses when they do something wrong. I love this country, but that doesn't mean I excuse America when it does something wrong either.

The cluster bomb is particularly devastating because much of it's killing is not immediate and it maims and kills so many non combatants. Innocent men, women and children.

Because cluster bombs release many small bomblets over a wide area they pose risks to civilians both during attacks and afterwards. During attacks the weapons are prone to indiscriminate effects, especially in populated areas. Unexploded bomblets can kill or maim civilians long after a conflict has ended. Unexploded submunitions are costly to locate and remove.

Cluster munitions are prohibited for those nations that ratify the Convention on Cluster Munitions, adopted in Dublin, Ireland in May 2008


It behooves every man who values liberty of conscience for himself, to resist invasions of it in the case of others: or their case may, by change of circumstances, become his own.
Thomas Jefferson
 
Bfgrn said:
From what I've heard from you so far, you're not capable of loving anything. Probably the person you hate the most is the one you see in the mirror every day. I feel sorry for people raised by wolves.

I love my children, but that doesn't mean I make excuses when they do something wrong. I love this country, but that doesn't mean I excuse America when it does something wrong either.

The cluster bomb is particularly devastating because much of it's killing is not immediate and it maims and kills so many non combatants. Innocent men, women and children.

Because cluster bombs release many small bomblets over a wide area they pose risks to civilians both during attacks and afterwards. During attacks the weapons are prone to indiscriminate effects, especially in populated areas. Unexploded bomblets can kill or maim civilians long after a conflict has ended. Unexploded submunitions are costly to locate and remove.

Cluster munitions are prohibited for those nations that ratify the Convention on Cluster Munitions, adopted in Dublin, Ireland in May 2008


It behooves every man who values liberty of conscience for himself, to resist invasions of it in the case of others: or their case may, by change of circumstances, become his own.
Thomas Jefferson
Click to expand...

I have been to Laos and I know many people from the border areas of Thailand who will attest to the veracity of what you are saying. There are too many apologists in the US who would either try to justify what happened in the Vietnam war or wish to sweep it under the carpet.
 
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tom prendergast said:
I have been to Laos and I know many people from the border areas of Thailand who will attest to the veracity of what you are saying. There are too many apologists in the US who would either try to justify what happened in the Vietnam war or wish to sweep it under the carpet.
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What makes me sick tom, America is still using cluster bombs. In July 2008, United States Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates implemented a policy to eliminate by 2018 all cluster bombs that do not meet new safety standards.

There is an oxymoron in that statement.

And conservatives in America scoff at the concept of 'blowback'
 
USFREEDOM911 said:
I occasionally read where they still find bombs from WW II in Europe and French landmines in Vietnam. so why aren't you bitching about those also?
*rhetorical question; because Big Fucking Grin only hates America*
Click to expand...

What a load of crap, the sheer number of unexploded bomblets, left from cluster bombs, is just staggering not just in Laos but also in Cambodia. The French and the allies in WW2 did not use cluster bombs, the technology was not available then.
 
tom prendergast said:
I have been to Laos and I know many people from the border areas of Thailand who will attest to the veracity of what you are saying. There are too many apologists in the US who would either try to justify what happened in the Vietnam war or wish to sweep it under the carpet.
Click to expand...

apologists and defenders from both parties should really be quiet and thought a fool, instead of proving it by talking.
 
There are a couple of differences between finding WWII munitions and the topic of this thread.

First of all, the munitions from WWII weren't designed to land and be a trap for civilians. The cluster bombs were MEANT to do what they are doing. Whether they were aimed at civilians or not.

Second of all, WWII was a war to defend against a madman invading other nations. We were justified in entering that war. Vietnam was a clusterfuck from the beginning and we should never have been there.
 
Bfgrn said:
What makes me sick tom, America is still using cluster bombs. In July 2008, United States Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates implemented a policy to eliminate by 2018 all cluster bombs that do not meet new safety standards.

There is an oxymoron in that statement.

And conservatives in America scoff at the concept of 'blowback'
Click to expand...
Cluster bomb is a pretty vague term here. In your case you're applying it to a lot of things that aren't used for such an application.
 
Duplicity and Guile said:
Cluster bomb is a pretty vague term here. In your case you're applying it to a lot of things that aren't used for such an application.
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All cluster bomb deploy bomblets (clusters).

Cluster munitions, cluster bombs or sub-munitions are air-dropped or ground-launched explosive weapons that eject smaller submunitions: a cluster of bomblets. The most common types are designed to kill enemy personnel and destroy vehicles. Other submunition-based weapons designed to destroy runways, electric power transmission lines, disperse chemical or biological weapons, or to scatter land mines have also been produced. Some submunition-based weapons can disperse non-munitions such as leaflets.

Because cluster bombs release many small bomblets over a wide area they pose risks to civilians both during attacks and afterwards. During attacks the weapons are prone to indiscriminate effects, especially in populated areas. Unexploded bomblets can kill or maim civilians long after a conflict has ended. Unexploded submunitions are costly to locate and remove. wiki
 
Bfgrn said:
From what I've heard from you so far, you're not capable of loving anything. Probably the person you hate the most is the one you see in the mirror every day. I feel sorry for people raised by wolves.

I love my children, but that doesn't mean I make excuses when they do something wrong. I love this country, but that doesn't mean I excuse America when it does something wrong either.

The cluster bomb is particularly devastating because much of it's killing is not immediate and it maims and kills so many non combatants. Innocent men, women and children.

Because cluster bombs release many small bomblets over a wide area they pose risks to civilians both during attacks and afterwards. During attacks the weapons are prone to indiscriminate effects, especially in populated areas. Unexploded bomblets can kill or maim civilians long after a conflict has ended. Unexploded submunitions are costly to locate and remove.

Cluster munitions are prohibited for those nations that ratify the Convention on Cluster Munitions, adopted in Dublin, Ireland in May 2008


It behooves every man who values liberty of conscience for himself, to resist invasions of it in the case of others: or their case may, by change of circumstances, become his own.
Thomas Jefferson
Click to expand...

So you're pissing and moaning about cluster bombs that were dropped in Laos and using as an example, a convention that was held in 2008!!
Are you trying to suggest that the bombs were dropped on Laos AFTER 2008??
 
tom prendergast said:
What a load of crap, the sheer number of unexploded bomblets, left from cluster bombs, is just staggering not just in Laos but also in Cambodia. The French and the allies in WW2 did not use cluster bombs, the technology was not available then.
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And your solution for something that was accepted to be used??

Let's see what we should do for everyone that was injured by a tri-blade bayonet, BEFORE it was decided NOT to allow them.
 
USFREEDOM911 said:
And your solution for something that was accepted to be used??

Let's see what we should do for everyone that was injured by a tri-blade bayonet, BEFORE it was decided NOT to allow them.
Click to expand...

Accepted by whom? Many organisations told of the horrors of cluster bombs, Agent Orange napalm etc. at the time and after. Cluster bombs were still being used in Iraq in 2003, at least the British have had the sense to ban them albeit belatedly.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8584135.stm
 
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