#4

The fundamental insight of the Buddha (the Awakened One) is this: life consists of suffering, and suffering is caused by attachment to the self, which is in turn attached to the things of this world. Only by liberating ourselves from the tyranny of perpetual wanting can we be truly free.
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hmm. close.
ANNATA literally means "no self" it is because the Buddha refused to answer "am I myself" when asked about karma. Refusing to answer acts like a koan.
A koan is a paradox to be meditated upon that is used to train Zen Buddhist monks to abandon ultimate dependence on reason and to force them into gaining sudden intuitive enlightenment.

Buddha used 4 levels of answers, the lowest was a non answer - refusing to answer "am I myself" forces the student to realize their IS NO SELF, only a temporary life, made up of all past lives, and this lives.
He used the example of throwing a handful of dirt in the air " this is your body - it is animated by the life force, when the life force ends, the body(dust) settles back into the earth."
It is the chi -the karmic outcome that can pass thru the Gateless Gate, not the self -only the enligtened combination of billions of past lives, "perfected karma" of human life.

else you return to the cycle of re-birth.
 
annata said:
hmm. close.
ANNATA literally means "no self" it is because the Buddha refused to answer "am I myself" when asked about karma. Refusing to answer acts like a koan.
A koan is a paradox to be meditated upon that is used to train Zen Buddhist monks to abandon ultimate dependence on reason and to force them into gaining sudden intuitive enlightenment.

Buddha used 4 levels of answers, the lowest was a non answer - refusing to answer "am I myself" forces the student to realize their IS NO SELF, only a temporary life, made up of all past lives, and this lives.
He used the example of throwing a handful of dirt in the air " this is your body - it is animated by the life force, when the life force ends, the body(dust) settles back into the earth."
It is the chi -the karmic outcome that can pass thru the Gateless Gate, not the self -only the enligtened combination of billions of past lives, "perfected karma" of human life.

else you return to the cycle of re-birth.
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So life becomes a pointless whirl in space imprisoned on the third rock from the sun. No problem with that providing that all people have the same philosophy. However all people don't. People want what you have and if they get what you have, by violent means or by worship of other gods, you are unable to seek the peace you preach because of the pain caused by the adversary. Hunger, sadness, physical pain, mental torment. So the teaching is acceptance, but because we are human beings the result of millions of years of evolution, insufficient numbers of us can accept. Therefore, like all religions, faiths and philosophies, except mine are a pointless waste of time.
Time for another beer. I'll have a pint of Karma Best Bitter!
 
Lowaicue said:
So life becomes a pointless whirl in space imprisoned on the third rock from the sun. No problem with that providing that all people have the same philosophy. However all people don't. People want what you have and if they get what you have, by violent means or by worship of other gods, you are unable to seek the peace you preach because of the pain caused by the adversary. Hunger, sadness, physical pain, mental torment. So the teaching is acceptance, but because we are human beings the result of millions of years of evolution, insufficient numbers of us can accept. Therefore, like all religions, faiths and philosophies, except mine are a pointless waste of time.
Time for another beer. I'll have a pint of Karma Best Bitter!
Click to expand...

No. life isn't pointless, The Wheel of Life illustrates in the essence of the Buddhist teachings, the Four Truths: the existence of earthly suffering, its origin and cause, the ending or prevention of misery and the practice path to liberation from suffering.

The Wheel of Life describes the cause of all evil and its effects, mirrored in earthly phenomena just as it is experienced by everyone from the cradle to the grave. Picture by picture it reminds us that everyone is always his or her own judge and responsible for their own fate, because, according to Karma, causes and their effects are the fruits of one's own deeds.

The teaching isn't passive acceptance, one is allowed to defend oneself fromm bodily harm, but THINGS are like sand, you cannot grasp and hold them always. You use them, you enjoy them, and you find the Middle Way, where you use these things but do not become attached.

The reason you do not become attached....is because they are part of this material world. How many things have you lost?
Did a valuable heirloom get stolen? did you lose something of value? got robbed ( your ex.). Ok. now what do you do about it?

You can wander endlessly trying to recover them SUFFERING from the loss while you do, or you can let them go, remember them, but not seek to hold them.
No matter what you have, you will experience loss. If you dwell, and obsess on the loss, you will SUFFER. That is why Buddhims teachs" ALL things are impermanent"; even your life, even the earth itself.

Knowing all things are impermanent - and you WILL(all of us) at some point experience loss -why would you 'set yourself up' for clinging to everything and all around you?
You are free to do so, but when you inexorably experience the loss, you will feel sufferring, depending on the loss you may experience GREAT SUFFERING.
So why cling to attachments? all you are doing is putting your mental happiness into an object.

Our greatest joys are not goods, they are life, liberty (which is the point here), and the fullness of life itself.

Go ahead and grasp that pint of Karma Best Bitter. Oops! you spilled it, now it's gone from your hands. do you get on your knees and try to put it back in the glass, crying in your beer?

Or do you just accept the fact its gone, and go back to enjoying your time in the pub? That is your choice.

There is so much more, the 8 fold Nobel Path shows us the path (steps) to use to free us from the cycle of rebirth
 
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The Four Noble Truths

1. Life means suffering.

2. The origin of suffering is attachment.

3. The cessation of suffering is attainable.

4. The path to the cessation of suffering **

** (the answer for the 4th Noble Truth is thru the below -the 8 Fold Path)
 
1. Right View
2. Right Intention
3. Right Speech
4. Right Action
5. Right Livelihood
6. Right Effort
7. Right Mindfulness
8. Right Concentration
 
annata said:
do you mean Pessimism ? various reasons ( if that's the case).
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No I mean Pescism. Throughout the years I've tried praying to a variety of sovereign entities and it has gotten me no where. So then I started praying to Joe Pesci. Why? For two reasons:

First of all, I think he's a good actor, okay? To me, that counts. Second, he looks like a guy who can get things done. Joe Pesci doesn't fuck around. In fact, Joe Pesci came through on a couple of things that God was having trouble with.

For years I asked God to do something about my noisy neighbor with the barking dog, Joe Pesci straightened that cocksucker out with one visit. It's amazing what you can accomplish with a simple baseball bat.

So I've been praying to Joe for about a year now. And I noticed something. I noticed that all the prayers I used to offer to God, and all the prayers I now offer to Joe Pesci, are being answered at about the same 50% rate. Half the time I get what I want, half the time I don't. Same as God, 50-50. Same as the four-leaf clover and the horseshoe, the wishing well and the rabbit's foot, same as the Mojo Man, same as the Voodoo Lady who tells you your fortune by squeezing the goat's testicles, it's all the same: 50-50. So just pick your superstition, sit back, make a wish, and enjoy yourself.

And for those of you who look to The Bible for moral lessons and literary qualities, I might suggest a couple of other stories for you. You might want to look at the Three Little Pigs, that's a good one. Has a nice happy ending, I'm sure you'll like that. Then there's Little Red Riding Hood, although it does have that X-rated part where the Big Bad Wolf actually eats the grandmother. Which I didn't care for, by the way. And finally, I've always drawn a great deal of moral comfort from Humpty Dumpty. The part I like the best? "All the king's horses and all the king's men couldn't put Humpty Dumpty back together again." That's because there is no Humpty Dumpty, and there is no God. None, not one, no God, never was.

But there is Joe Pesci and Joe knows how to get shit done!

May Joe Bless you.
 
Derp Derp said:
No I mean Pescism. Throughout the years I've tried praying to a variety of sovereign entities and it has gotten me no where. So then I started praying to Joe Pesci. Why? For two reasons:

First of all, I think he's a good actor, okay? To me, that counts. Second, he looks like a guy who can get things done. Joe Pesci doesn't fuck around. In fact, Joe Pesci came through on a couple of things that God was having trouble with.

For years I asked God to do something about my noisy neighbor with the barking dog, Joe Pesci straightened that cocksucker out with one visit. It's amazing what you can accomplish with a simple baseball bat.

So I've been praying to Joe for about a year now. And I noticed something. I noticed that all the prayers I used to offer to God, and all the prayers I now offer to Joe Pesci, are being answered at about the same 50% rate. Half the time I get what I want, half the time I don't. Same as God, 50-50. Same as the four-leaf clover and the horseshoe, the wishing well and the rabbit's foot, same as the Mojo Man, same as the Voodoo Lady who tells you your fortune by squeezing the goat's testicles, it's all the same: 50-50. So just pick your superstition, sit back, make a wish, and enjoy yourself.

And for those of you who look to The Bible for moral lessons and literary qualities, I might suggest a couple of other stories for you. You might want to look at the Three Little Pigs, that's a good one. Has a nice happy ending, I'm sure you'll like that. Then there's Little Red Riding Hood, although it does have that X-rated part where the Big Bad Wolf actually eats the grandmother. Which I didn't care for, by the way. And finally, I've always drawn a great deal of moral comfort from Humpty Dumpty. The part I like the best? "All the king's horses and all the king's men couldn't put Humpty Dumpty back together again." That's because there is no Humpty Dumpty, and there is no God. None, not one, no God, never was.

But there is Joe Pesci and Joe knows how to get shit done!

May Joe Bless you.
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:) does Joe help your life? The reason I ask is there ARE NO gods in Buddhist religion. None.
Buddha was simply a man who wanted to find out how to live life withoiut suffering -he found out ( long story but a great read) that suffering cannot be avoided.
He even tried ascetic (a person who dedicates his or her life to a pursuit of contemplative ideals and practices extreme self-denial ) approach. living in a cave -
the idea being if you have nothing to lose, you can't suffer from the loss.

Anyways it's a fascinating book "Life of Buddha" -( Depak Chopra), that shows his life from prince to pauper, to the Middle Way.
The whole concept is SELF enlightenment, not thru prayer/sacrifice/gods -but by living a Nobel life.
You alone are in control of your life, you descde how to live it...well you got the basic idea.

It's a great read, if you wanna understand the human condition - Pesci would approve !!! :)
 
annata said:
:) does Joe help your life? The reason I ask is there ARE NO gods in Buddhist religion. None.
Buddha was simply a man who wanted to find out how to live life withoiut suffering -he found out ( long story but a great read) that suffering cannot be avoided.
He even tried ascetic (a person who dedicates his or her life to a pursuit of contemplative ideals and practices extreme self-denial ) approach. living in a cave -
the idea being if you have nothing to lose, you can't suffer from the loss.

Anyways it's a fascinating book "Life of Buddha" -( Depak Chopra), that shows his life from prince to pauper, to the Middle Way.
The whole concept is SELF enlightenment, not thru prayer/sacrifice/gods -but by living a Nobel life.
You alone are in control of your life, you descde how to live it...well you got the basic idea.

It's a great read, if you wanna understand the human condition - Pesci would approve !!! :)
Click to expand...
I always thought of that sort of philosophy as not only nihilistic but unenlightened as well. If you have nothing to lose you may not suffer from the loss but you sure as hell have nothing to gain either!

I've never believed that enlightenment could ever come from prayer, sacrifice, living a nobel life, etc, it's bull hooey. The only true form of enlightenment comes from empirical observation of the world around you and critical/analytical thinking that tests those observations. The rest is sophistry for the weak minded who are frightened by natures realities.

None of that shit bothers Joe which is why Joe Pesci gets shit done!

Joe bless you. :)
 
Derp Derp said:
I always thought of that sort of philosophy as not only nihilistic but unenlightened as well. If you have nothing to lose you may not suffer from the loss but you sure as hell have nothing to gain either!

I've never believed that enlightenment could ever come from prayer, sacrifice, living a nobel life, etc, it's bull hooey. The only true form of enlightenment comes from empirical observation of the world around you and critical/analytical thinking that tests those observations. The rest is sophistry for the weak minded who are frightened by natures realities.

None of that shit bothers Joe which is why Joe Pesci gets shit done!

Joe bless you. :)
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all blessings to Joe. Buddha rejected the idea of "nothing to lose" for the very reason you gave.
"Enlightenment" is an idea of full knowledge, not of the scientific kind, but of the human mind.
Whn you don't have Joe or anyone else to help you out ( Joe i assume does take the occasional vacation, or use voice mail) you still have your own mind.
Your (thoughts/words/deeds) compose whom you are -we call it karma. perfect those thoughts /words/deeds/ and there is no point in coming back to the cycle of rebirth.
Only humans are capable of self perfecting, while other sentient creatures have self awareness, they cannot understand they will die.

We have that knowledge, we have the ability to make our lives worthy of relief from bondage to earth.
I don't want to come back again, as much as i've enjoyed this life. I want my karmic relief through the Gateless Gate, to join the energy of the universe
( universal mind).
 
You are both wrong. The stars shall be right soon. R'Lyeh shall rise from the deep and the slumber of the Deep Ones shall pass. Great and wonderful madness shall consume us all, and our souls will survive only as sustinance for the mighty gods.

We are nothing but ants. The great mysterious of this plane are beyond our understanding, and so too are the gods.
 
annata said:
No. life isn't pointless, The Wheel of Life illustrates in the essence of the Buddhist teachings, the Four Truths: the existence of earthly suffering, its origin and cause, the ending or prevention of misery and the practice path to liberation from suffering.

The Wheel of Life describes the cause of all evil and its effects, mirrored in earthly phenomena just as it is experienced by everyone from the cradle to the grave. Picture by picture it reminds us that everyone is always his or her own judge and responsible for their own fate, because, according to Karma, causes and their effects are the fruits of one's own deeds.

The teaching isn't passive acceptance, one is allowed to defend oneself fromm bodily harm, but THINGS are like sand, you cannot grasp and hold them always. You use them, you enjoy them, and you find the Middle Way, where you use these things but do not become attached.

The reason you do not become attached....is because they are part of this material world. How many things have you lost?
Did a valuable heirloom get stolen? did you lose something of value? got robbed ( your ex.). Ok. now what do you do about it?

You can wander endlessly trying to recover them SUFFERING from the loss while you do, or you can let them go, remember them, but not seek to hold them.
No matter what you have, you will experience loss. If you dwell, and obsess on the loss, you will SUFFER. That is why Buddhims teachs" ALL things are impermanent"; even your life, even the earth itself.

Knowing all things are impermanent - and you WILL(all of us) at some point experience loss -why would you 'set yourself up' for clinging to everything and all around you?
You are free to do so, but when you inexorably experience the loss, you will feel sufferring, depending on the loss you may experience GREAT SUFFERING.
So why cling to attachments? all you are doing is putting your mental happiness into an object.

Our greatest joys are not goods, they are life, liberty (which is the point here), and the fullness of life itself.

Go ahead and grasp that pint of Karma Best Bitter. Oops! you spilled it, now it's gone from your hands. do you get on your knees and try to put it back in the glass, crying in your beer?

Or do you just accept the fact its gone, and go back to enjoying your time in the pub? That is your choice.

There is so much more, the 8 fold Nobel Path shows us the path (steps) to use to free us from the cycle of rebirth
Click to expand...

Life for wild animals is pointless. Unless you say that eating and procreating have a point other than to prolong the species' stay on the planet. Did dinosaurs have a point? Yes for a fleeting few million years but for now? Not really.
We are the product of other people's choices and exist for no other reason. Your philosophy doesn't give anyone or any thing a point to its existence. It tries to teach those whose free will allows them to listen, to make the best of what they have.
OK that's cool. It's much better than fighting.
But more lives are lost in the cause of differing philosophies (religions included) than anything else. So the very act of teaching/preaching/persuading becomes exactly it's own antithesis.
The reference to Karma bitter was inserted to show that whatever fate has in store bitterness will usually hold sway whether it be yours or 'theirs'.
So enjoy the sun, take full advantage of the opportunities that come your way and understand that life is a coincidence and how one handles it depends entirely on oneself. Develop your own philosophy or simply follow one from the library of philosophies, we all get to the same place in the end.
 
Lowaicue said:
Life for wild animals is pointless. Unless you say that eating and procreating have a point other than to prolong the species' stay on the planet. Did dinosaurs have a point? Yes for a fleeting few million years but for now? Not really.
We are the product of other people's choices and exist for no other reason. Your philosophy doesn't give anyone or any thing a point to its existence. It tries to teach those whose free will allows them to listen, to make the best of what they have.
OK that's cool. It's much better than fighting.
But more lives are lost in the cause of differing philosophies (religions included) than anything else. So the very act of teaching/preaching/persuading becomes exactly it's own antithesis.
The reference to Karma bitter was inserted to show that whatever fate has in store bitterness will usually hold sway whether it be yours or 'theirs'.
So enjoy the sun, take full advantage of the opportunities that come your way and understand that life is a coincidence and how one handles it depends entirely on oneself. Develop your own philosophy or simply follow one from the library of philosophies, we all get to the same place in the end.
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seems you are concerned for fighting for your material needs; so am i. i fight for them in the marketplace. I nave basic needs, that I want -
"some want it all" ; i'm not claiming any moral highground here. To each according their desires, as the see fit to aquire them. your decision.

For me, i've found that spending enormous times of energy and my focus on aquisition, is a fleeting pleasure -like a child who gets a new toy, is pleased with it, then grows a bit tired of it, and cries out for more. Never truely happy what with he has now,as the desires rule his thoughts.
I want enough to meet my desires, but not to the point the desires drive my behavior above what are my true desires, and not just what is superfulous greed.

Desires are fine, you can choose your level, Buddhism doesn't proscribe just how much is enough.
It warns you that clinging to these desires will inexoribly cause suffering - unless one is the Queen of England who's every desire is fufulled, in all stages of life.
 
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