A 58-story skyscraper in San Francisco is tilting and sinking

S

signalmankenneth

Verified User
A 58-story skyscraper in San Francisco is tilting and sinking — and residents say their multimillion-dollar condos are 'nearly worthless'

I wonder if they fix this problem, but I doubt it?!!

https://www.businessinsider.com/is-...eaning-sinking-2017-9?amp;utm_medium=referral
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sinking.jpg
 
'Leaning Tower of Pisa'. It could be another tourist attraction. Try to look on the positive side, SK.
 
Jack said:
Who are the Structural Engineers? It's not like that building is the first skyscraper in San Fran.
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As a structural engineer myself, I have been following this situation. I call this a "negotiated structural solution", where the owner negotiated with the foundation engineer on the design. Having been in that situation myself probably dozens of times, where an owner wanted me to "cheapen up" on my design, my response has always been: "physics is non-negotiable".

So the engineer of record is shitting his pants, the owner is looking to sue him, and lawyers are getting overtime pay. Exciting situation, and one where I have easily avoided by being willing to walk away from a job when hired by that type of owner.

The owner may have saved $500,000. The engineer may have been paid $100,000, and this will end his career. The building is likely worth many multiples of that. It will need to be demolished before it collapses and kills hundreds of people.
 
Dark Soul said:
As a structural engineer myself, I have been following this situation. I call this a "negotiated structural solution", where the owner negotiated with the foundation engineer on the design. Having been in that situation myself probably dozens of times, where an owner wanted me to "cheapen up" on my design, my response has always been: "physics is non-negotiable".

So the engineer of record is shitting his pants, the owner is looking to sue him, and lawyers are getting overtime pay. Exciting situation, and one where I have easily avoided by being willing to walk away from a job when hired by that type of owner.

The owner may have saved $500,000. The engineer may have been paid $100,000, and this will end his career. The building is likely worth many multiples of that. It will need to be demolished before it collapses and kills hundreds of people.
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It looks like he relied on friction piles rather than going to bedrock, real stupid move in an earthquake zone. Maybe he'll do better as a Landscape Architect?
 
A large crack formed in a window at the sinking and tilting Millennium Tower over the Labor Day weekend, prompting officials there to block off part of the sidewalk on Mission Street as a precaution, NBC Bay Area’s Investigative Unit has learned.

City inspectors issued a notice of violation on Tuesday, giving the Millennium management 72 hours to report back on the extent of the problem and the soundness of the building’s façade in light of the failure.

Residents started hearing creaking sounds followed by a loud popping noise at 2:30 a.m. Saturday. Soon afterward, one owner found the crack in his window in a 36th floor unit in the north western corner of the 58-story high-rise. The tower is currently tilting some 18 inches when measured at the top.
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https://www.nbcbayarea.com/investig...iscos-Tilting-Millennium-Tower-492449451.html

Tilted another 2 inches since the OP linked article was published. The facade on the low side is now in compression, crushing window frames. The city needs to condemn this structure and give the owners 30 days to begin remediation or else start to demolish it.
 
Dark Soul said:
As a structural engineer myself, I have been following this situation. I call this a "negotiated structural solution", where the owner negotiated with the foundation engineer on the design. Having been in that situation myself probably dozens of times, where an owner wanted me to "cheapen up" on my design, my response has always been: "physics is non-negotiable".

So the engineer of record is shitting his pants, the owner is looking to sue him, and lawyers are getting overtime pay. Exciting situation, and one where I have easily avoided by being willing to walk away from a job when hired by that type of owner.

The owner may have saved $500,000. The engineer may have been paid $100,000, and this will end his career. The building is likely worth many multiples of that. It will need to be demolished before it collapses and kills hundreds of people.
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Well said. Indeed.
 
signalmankenneth said:
A 58-story skyscraper in San Francisco is tilting and sinking — and residents say their multimillion-dollar condos are 'nearly worthless'

I wonder if they fix this problem, but I doubt it?!!
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This is OLD news and already ran on 60 minutes. You must have been masturbating in your cave during that story. So what is your point?
 
Dark Soul said:
As a structural engineer myself, I have been following this situation. I call this a "negotiated structural solution", where the owner negotiated with the foundation engineer on the design. Having been in that situation myself probably dozens of times, where an owner wanted me to "cheapen up" on my design, my response has always been: "physics is non-negotiable".

So the engineer of record is shitting his pants, the owner is looking to sue him, and lawyers are getting overtime pay. Exciting situation, and one where I have easily avoided by being willing to walk away from a job when hired by that type of owner.

The owner may have saved $500,000. The engineer may have been paid $100,000, and this will end his career. The building is likely worth many multiples of that. It will need to be demolished before it collapses and kills hundreds of people.
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If you think the engineering fee on this was $100K, I've got a bridge in Arizona I would like to sell you. :rofl2:

They won't demolish this building; they have too much invested and riding on it. The solutions are not cheap or simple; but the tilt has been mitigated for now and they monitor the settling constantly.

It will be interesting to see how the lawsuits go. The city is also culpable having approved the design and the drawings.
 
Truth Detector said:
If you think the engineering fee on this was $100K, I've got a bridge in Arizona I would like to sell you. :rofl2:

They won't demolish this building; they have too much invested and riding on it. The solutions are not cheap or simple; but the tilt has been mitigated for now and they monitor the settling constantly.

It will be interesting to see how the lawsuits go. The city is also culpable having approved the design and the drawings.
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I was just talking about the guy who designed the foundation, not the superstructure.
 
Also, how has the tilt been mitigated? I'm not been following it that closely.

The City isn't liable for approving the design unless it is against a specific Code. Neither is the contractor as long as he built the foundation in accordance with the plans. They are not responsible for checking the engineer; he is completely liable.
 
Dark Soul said:
Also, how has the tilt been mitigated? I'm not been following it that closely.

The City isn't liable for approving the design unless it is against a specific Code. Neither is the contractor as long as he built the foundation in accordance with the plans. They are not responsible for checking the engineer; he is completely liable.
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That may be true, but the City had to approve of the friction pilings instead of placing it in bedrock....in the end, the engineers fucked up and will probably declare bankruptcy long before the litigation is over. I imagine the soils engineer will be coughing up money here as well. Their report had to support the idea of the pilings.
 
Truth Detector said:
That may be true, but the City had to approve of the friction pilings instead of placing it in bedrock....in the end, the engineers fucked up and will probably declare bankruptcy long before the litigation is over. I imagine the soils engineer will be coughing up money here as well. Their report had to support the idea of the pilings.
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When this gets into the legal system very often logic and reason goes out the window in favor of deep pockets, but the way the industry works, and the language of the International Building Code reflects this, is that the liability rests with the engineer of record. In this case it is the engineer who sealed the foundation plans. That person may rely on a sealed report by another licensed professional, in this case a geotechnical report, but the geotech is only technically liable if his report is incorrect.

It is the city's job, as the Code Enforcement Official, to check that the building plans meet Code. So unless the Code requires foundations to be founded on bedrock they have to approve, a better term would be accept, the sealed plans. In other words, it's not the CEO's job to oversee the engineer. Most of the time (always) they lack the training and qualifications to do that. Very few CEOs are licensed engineers or architects. And that's OK because the system isn't set up that way.

In my state there have been several instances where a municipality has been sued based on the negligence of the CEO. But these have been around failure to adequately inspect a project in accordance with the sealed plans. In other words negligence during the construction phase, approving construction that was not done or not done adequately. Although I don't have all the details, my suspicion is that is not the case here.

As I said earlier owners, developers are always trying to reduce costs and I have been asked numerous times to negotiate physics. I know and have known many engineers that will do that just to keep themselves employed, so that this is a very plausible scenario.
 
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