A Grim Portrait of Civilian Deaths in Iraq

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A Grim Portrait of Civilian Deaths in Iraq

The reports in the archive disclosed by WikiLeaks offer an incomplete, yet startlingly graphic portrait of one of the most contentious issues in the Iraq war — how many Iraqi civilians have been killed and by whom.

The reports make it clear that most civilians, by far, were killed by other Iraqis. Two of the worst days of the war came on Aug. 31, 2005, when a stampede on a bridge in Baghdad killed more than 950 people after several earlier attacks panicked a huge crowd, and on Aug. 14, 2007, when truck bombs killed more than 500 people in a rural area near the border with Syria.

But it was systematic sectarian cleansing that drove the killing to its most frenzied point, making December 2006 the worst month of the war, according to the reports, with about 3,800 civilians killed, roughly equal to the past seven years of murders in New York City. A total of about 1,300 police officers, insurgents and coalition soldiers were also killed in that month.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/23/world/middleeast/23casualties.html?no_interstitial

:(
 
Saddam murdered more Iraqis in his time than were killed by the US in the war, plus the number killed by terrorists during the occupation....
 
bravo said:
Saddam murdered more Iraqis in his time than were killed by the US in the war, plus the number killed by terrorists during the occupation....
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Sadaam was caught and hung. Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld live in luxury on the millions they conned from people like you. Bloody dupe.
Get those responsible - and that includes the lying allied generals - reopen Nuremburg, try the bastards and hang them high.

109,000 deaths.
Kill one, you are a murderer. Kill half a dozen and you are a serial killer. Kill 109,000 and you are a great president.
My god, what stupid people you are!
 
christiefan915 said:
Oh, I see. The old "they did it first" defense.

Guess we can't claim any moral superiority, huh.
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Rana said:
Not anymore
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No....you and your pinhead friends DON'T see...

Saddams legacy....

[FONT=Arial, Geneva]The Documental Centre for Human Rights in Iraq has compiled documentation on over 600,000 civilian executions in Iraq.

Human Rights Watch reports that in one operation alone, the Anfal, Saddam killed 100,000 Kurdish Iraqis.

Another 500,000 are estimated to have died in Saddam's war with Iran.

The daily average for the 24 years of Saddam's reign, between 70 and 125 civilian deaths per day for every one of Saddam's 8,000-odd days in power" [/FONT]

And, because he is gone, that, translates into 96,600 to 172,500 Iraqis that were not murdered by Saddam and his supporters.....
 
bravo said:
No....you and your pinhead friends DON'T see...

Saddams legacy....

[FONT=Arial, Geneva]The Documental Centre for Human Rights in Iraq has compiled documentation on over 600,000 civilian executions in Iraq.

Human Rights Watch reports that in one operation alone, the Anfal, Saddam killed 100,000 Kurdish Iraqis.

Another 500,000 are estimated to have died in Saddam's war with Iran.

The daily average for the 24 years of Saddam's reign, between 70 and 125 civilian deaths per day for every one of Saddam's 8,000-odd days in power" [/FONT]

And, because he is gone, that, translates into 96,600 to 172,500 Iraqis that were not murdered by Saddam and his supporters.....
Click to expand...

We went into Iraq on the lying premise of WMD, not to free the people from Saddam's tyranny. This is what happened. How does it make us better?

- U.S. authorities failed to investigate hundreds of reports of abuse, torture, rape and even murder by Iraqi police and soldiers whose conduct appears to be systematic and normally unpunished.

- Americans often turned a blind eye to Iraqis being tortured and abused by other Iraqis in secret prisons.

- Iran's military - to a further extent than previously known - intervened aggressively in support of Shiite combatants, offering weapons, training and sanctuary.

- A U.S. helicopter gunship involved in a notorious Baghdad incident had previously killed Iraqi insurgents after they tried to surrender.

- According to one tabulation, there have been 100,000 civilian causalities - greater than the numbers previously made public, many of them killed by American troops but most of them were killed by other Iraqis.
 
I don't recall Yurtsie and his sycophants weeping over Iraqi casualties when Bush was in office.
 
Zurt said:
I don't recall Yurtsie and his sycophants weeping over Iraqi casualties when Bush was in office.
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Righty-speak as I recall:

"Hey, it's war. People get killed."

"Stuff happens in the fog of war."

"Our bombs are so smart and precise they can be dropped down a chimney and only take out who we want taken out."

"We have to fight them over there or we'll be fighting them over here."

"No matter what we do it's all good because Saddam was killing his own people."

(Okay, I made up part of the last sentence but you get the picture.)
 
christiefan915 said:
We went into Iraq on the lying premise of WMD, not to free the people from Saddam's tyranny. This is what happened. How does it make us better?

- U.S. authorities failed to investigate hundreds of reports of abuse, torture, rape and even murder by Iraqi police and soldiers whose conduct appears to be systematic and normally unpunished.

- Americans often turned a blind eye to Iraqis being tortured and abused by other Iraqis in secret prisons.

- Iran's military - to a further extent than previously known - intervened aggressively in support of Shiite combatants, offering weapons, training and sanctuary.

- A U.S. helicopter gunship involved in a notorious Baghdad incident had previously killed Iraqi insurgents after they tried to surrender.

- According to one tabulation, there have been 100,000 civilian causalities - greater than the numbers previously made public, many of them killed by American troops but most of them were killed by other Iraqis.
Click to expand...
Nice try, but NOTHING in your post is about the topic of the thread...

Remember it..?

Originally Posted by bravo
Saddam murdered more Iraqis in his time than were killed by the US in the war, plus the number killed by terrorists during the occupation....
Click to expand...
I won't bother with your and Rana's reply which is what I answered


We failed to investigate alledged abuse?.......Irrelevant
Our reason for going to Iraq?......................Irrelevant
You, accusing our troops of war crimes.........Irrelevant
Civilian causalities, (broken nails to deaths....Strawman
whether by troops, police or terrorists,
According to ?someones? tabulation


But its excellent anti-American propaganda.....
 
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bravo said:
Nice try, but NOTHING in your post is about the topic of the thread...

Remember it..?

I won't bother with your and Rana's reply which is what I answered


We failed to investigate alledged abuse?.......Irrelevant
Our reason for going to Iraq?......................Irrelevant
You, accusing our troops of war crimes.........Irrelevant
Civilian causalities, (broken nails to deaths....Strawman
whether by troops, police or terrorists,
According to ?someones? tabulation


But its excellent anti-American propaganda.....
Click to expand...

My post paraphrases the info uncovered by WikiLeaks, which is exactly the topic of the thread.

The New York Times, The Guardian newspaper of London, German magazine Der Spiegel and French newspaper Le Monde reported Friday that secret U.S. military documents about the war in Iraq detail torture, summary executions and war crimes.

These are the same documents - part of the largest publication of secret material in history - that Pentagon officials have been urging the website WikiLeaks and the media not to publish.
 
christiefan915 said:
My post paraphrases the info uncovered by WikiLeaks, which is exactly the topic of the thread.

The New York Times, The Guardian newspaper of London, German magazine Der Spiegel and French newspaper Le Monde reported Friday that secret U.S. military documents about the war in Iraq detail torture, summary executions and war crimes.

These are the same documents - part of the largest publication of secret material in history - that Pentagon officials have been urging the website WikiLeaks and the media not to publish.
Click to expand...

I gathered that....all of which has NOTHING to do with my claim....
Again...
Originally Posted by bravo
Saddam murdered more Iraqis in his time than were killed by the US in the war, plus the number killed by terrorists during the occupation....
Click to expand...

You reallize that Saddam was there from about 1979 to 2003

Recent events and murder by Muslim terrorists are not the topic.
 
I can't address the Wikileaks claims or exactly what those claims are.....they just hit the media and I'm not familiar with 98% of it.....

You, in all you omnipotent knowledge can make the claims of US troop war crimes, I'll wait for more clarification before I comment.....
 
bravo said:
No....you and your pinhead friends DON'T see...

Saddams legacy....

[FONT=Arial, Geneva]The Documental Centre for Human Rights in Iraq has compiled documentation on over 600,000 civilian executions in Iraq.

Human Rights Watch reports that in one operation alone, the Anfal, Saddam killed 100,000 Kurdish Iraqis.

Another 500,000 are estimated to have died in Saddam's war with Iran.

The daily average for the 24 years of Saddam's reign, between 70 and 125 civilian deaths per day for every one of Saddam's 8,000-odd days in power" [/FONT]

And, because he is gone, that, translates into 96,600 to 172,500 Iraqis that were not murdered by Saddam and his supporters.....
Click to expand...
Bravo, he is did this while George Bush 41 looked the other way and in some instances, gave him the weapons! We are not guilt free when it comes to Saddam, the CIA helped create him! It was our bad, too! You were in the Navy, maybe you were lucky enough not to have been a part or seen war crimes. In Nam, Bud said they started to give leave for those units that turned in prisoners because most weren't taking any, Bud said they didn't until this policy was promoted. He said they shot all prisoners until the promise of leave came along, then there was incentive and reward for keeping them alive! War crimes and war go hand in hand, the reason I hate war!
 
bravo said:
I gathered that....all of which has NOTHING to do with my claim....
Again...


You reallize that Saddam was there from about 1979 to 2003

Recent events and murder by Muslim terrorists are not the topic.
Click to expand...

You're forgetting that at one time Saddam was our boy. Good old reagan, propping up tyranny one dictator at a time.

handshake300.jpg


"The U.S. restored formal relations with Iraq in November 1984, but the U.S. had begun, several years earlier, to provide it with intelligence and military support (in secret and contrary to this country's official neutrality) in accordance with policy directives from President Ronald Reagan. These were prepared pursuant to his March 1982 National Security Study Memorandum (NSSM 4-82) asking for a review of U.S. policy toward the Middle East."

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/
 
christiefan915 said:
You're forgetting that at one time Saddam was our boy. Good old reagan, propping up tyranny one dictator at a time.

handshake300.jpg


"The U.S. restored formal relations with Iraq in November 1984, but the U.S. had begun, several years earlier, to provide it with intelligence and military support (in secret and contrary to this country's official neutrality) in accordance with policy directives from President Ronald Reagan. These were prepared pursuant to his March 1982 National Security Study Memorandum (NSSM 4-82) asking for a review of U.S. policy toward the Middle East."

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/
Click to expand...
Good old Rummy, wonder where he is hiding these days?
 
Rana said:
Bravo, he is did this while George Bush 41 looked the other way and in some instances, gave him the weapons! We are not guilt free when it comes to Saddam, the CIA helped create him! It was our bad, too! You were in the Navy, maybe you were lucky enough not to have been a part or seen war crimes. In Nam, Bud said they started to give leave for those units that turned in prisoners because most weren't taking any, Bud said they didn't until this policy was promoted. He said they shot all prisoners until the promise of leave came along, then there was incentive and reward for keeping them alive! War crimes and war go hand in hand, the reason I hate war!
Click to expand...

christiefan915 said:
You're forgetting that at one time Saddam was our boy. Good old reagan, propping up tyranny one dictator at a time.

handshake300.jpg


"The U.S. restored formal relations with Iraq in November 1984, but the U.S. had begun, several years earlier, to provide it with intelligence and military support (in secret and contrary to this country's official neutrality) in accordance with policy directives from President Ronald Reagan. These were prepared pursuant to his March 1982 National Security Study Memorandum (NSSM 4-82) asking for a review of U.S. policy toward the Middle East."

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/
Click to expand...
I'm not forgetting a thing and I'm not denying anything....
Saddam reigned thru Reagon/Bush and Clinton and,... without doubt our Congresses signed off on an agreed to material support ....if it is you contention that the US responsible for million+ deaths while he was in power, that is your prerogative....blame away.....

My point stands....far more were innocents killed under his rule than have been killed since he was deposed.....and the killing of Muslims, by Muslims, is NOT the doing of the US...at least not by normal thinking people....
so changing the subject will not win the debate for you.


Incidently....Congress(both House and Senate) was ruled by Democrats all but about 4 years during that entire period...if that means anything.
 
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bravo said:
I'm not forgetting a thing and I'm not denying anything....
Saddam reigned thru Reagon/Bush and Clinton and,... without doubt our Congresses signed off on an agreed to material support ....if it is you contention that the US responsible for million+ deaths while he was in power, that is your prerogative....blame away.....

My point stands....far more were innocents killed under his rule than have been killed since he was deposed.....and the killing of Muslims, by Muslims, is NOT the doing of the US...at least not by normal thinking people....
so changing the subject will not win the debate for you.


Incidently....Congress(both House and Senate) was ruled by Democrats all but about 4 years during that entire period...if that means anything.
Click to expand...

Sorry, but the subject was changed by you on the 2nd post. The WikiLeaks article wasn't about Saddam's atrocities dating from '79, it was about what happened after the US invaded.

Furthermore, a lot of business we did at the time was covert.

Howard Teicher served on the National Security Council as director of Political-Military Affairs. He accompanied Rumsfeld to Baghdad in 1983.[16] According to his 1995 affidavit and separate interviews with former Reagan and Bush administration officials, the Central Intelligence Agency secretly directed armaments and hi-tech components to Iraq through false fronts and friendly third parties such as Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Kuwait, and they quietly encouraged rogue arms dealers and other private military companies to do the same:

[T]he United States actively supported the Iraqi war effort by supplying the Iraqis with billions of dollars of credits, by providing U.S. military intelligence and advice to the Iraqis, and by closely monitoring third country arms sales to Iraq to make sure that Iraq had the military weaponry required. The United States also provided strategic operational advice to the Iraqis to better use their assets in combat... The CIA, including both CIA Director Casey and Deputy Director Gates, knew of, approved of, and assisted in the sale of non-U.S. origin military weapons, ammunition and vehicles to Iraq. My notes, memoranda and other documents in my NSC files show or tend to show that the CIA knew of, approved of, and assisted in the sale of non-U.S. origin military weapons, munitions and vehicles to Iraq.[17]
 
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