ACLU off the deep end yet again

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Cancel 2016.2

The Almighty
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070530/ap_on_bi_ge/boeing_cia_suit

Once again the ACLU goes overboard. This is the same line of moronic logic that a gun manufacturer should be responsible for what its clients do with the guns. No way should Jeppesen be responsible for what the CIA did with its services. For the ACLU to claim that they should have known the CIA was using the flights for torture activities is ridiculous. (the exact quote was "Either they knew or reasonably should have known that they were facilitating a torture program")
 
Not a very good analogy there Super.
One has to do with running an organization the ohter has to do with an in-aminate object being misused.
 
US.... it is a perfectly fine analogy. Jeppesen sold the CIA a service. If the CIA uses that service for something illegal that is the fault of the CIA.... not Jeppesen. It has nothing to do with how Jeppesen runs their business.

Tell me... do you provide United or Frontier a detailed itenary of each of your trips and what you plan to do on them? No you do not. They provide you with a service. If you fly on their airline and shoot someone in your destination city... are they responsible because they flew you there?

This case is idiotic at best.
 
Not sure on the claim legitimacy, don't really know anything about the case.

It is pretty much like the DEA seizing personal assets used in a drug org though. Even if it was a 3rd party unknowingly hauling drugs. Well the big airlines don't count, just the little players.
 
The idea was when the CIA contracted them to fly them and shackeled and hooded people to certain countries the Co had to know why they were being taken to these countries.

Its called aiding and abetting
 
This could be a move by the ACLU to show that you can't slide under the wire by using outsourcing and blaming it on them.
 
Kinda like saying we don't torture. We just hire all our interrogations done by a contracting company namded "Pain is our Gain". Why would we think they would use torture ?
 
Superfreak said:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070530/ap_on_bi_ge/boeing_cia_suit

Once again the ACLU goes overboard. This is the same line of moronic logic that a gun manufacturer should be responsible for what its clients do with the guns. No way should Jeppesen be responsible for what the CIA did with its services. For the ACLU to claim that they should have known the CIA was using the flights for torture activities is ridiculous. (the exact quote was "Either they knew or reasonably should have known that they were facilitating a torture program")
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For the ACLU to claim that they should have known the CIA was using the flights for torture activities is ridiculous.

I think the company knew exactly what the purpose of those rendition flights were.

I'm just a regular joe schmo, and I knew when the CIA was flying a blindfolded, and shackeled man to Egypt, exactly what was goin on -- Simply from reading newspapers.
 
Like I said, there could be credible evidence the company knew they were facilitating torture. That's for the legal process to sort out.

According to published reports, Jeppesen had actual knowledge of the consequences of its activities. A former Jeppesen employee informed The New Yorker magazine that, at an internal board meeting, a senior Jeppesen official stated, "We do all of the extraordinary rendition flights - you know, the torture flights. Let's face it, some of these flights end up that way." (Jane Mayer, The New Yorker, Oct. 30, 2006

http://www.aclu.org/safefree/torture/29920prs20070530.html
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What a load of crap. I seriously doubt a "senior official" referred to the flights as torture flights. This is a bogus lawsuit and yet another black eye on the ACLU.

They provided transportation services to a government agency. The agency is responsible for the prisoners. (side note here... most prisoners that are considered dangerous are shackled when taken aboard an airplane.)
 
Superfreak said:
What a load of crap. I seriously doubt a "senior official" referred to the flights as torture flights. This is a bogus lawsuit and yet another black eye on the ACLU.

They provided transportation services to a government agency. The agency is responsible for the prisoners. (side note here... most prisoners that are considered dangerous are shackled when taken aboard an airplane.)
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Sfreak, today you beat out topspin for the "faux outrage" award of the day. ;)


Sfreak- as far back as 2002, did you know what was going to happen to suspected terrorists who were being flown by the CIA to egypt and uzbekistan? I did.
 
Great... did I win a prize?

Cypress... it is the CIA's responsibility. NOT Jeppsens. It is not "faux outrage" as you call it. It is the ACLU out of control once again. What is next??? Will they sue the companies that make the components of the planes Jeppsen uses? I mean after all... everyone knows Jeppsen was invovled in these flights and therefore they should not have sold parts to a company they KNOW is sponsoring CIA flights that are "torturing" people.
 
Superfreak said:
Great... did I win a prize?

Cypress... it is the CIA's responsibility. NOT Jeppsens. It is not "faux outrage" as you call it. It is the ACLU out of control once again. What is next??? Will they sue the companies that make the components of the planes Jeppsen uses? I mean after all... everyone knows Jeppsen was invovled in these flights and therefore they should not have sold parts to a company they KNOW is sponsoring CIA flights that are "torturing" people.
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We have pretty good judges, overall, in this country. If it's a frivilous case without merit, odds are a judge will throw it out. If the clients of ACLU have a legitimate case, it will be adjudicated in some form.

I was objecting to your assertion that there was no way in hell the company could possibly have a clue why their planes were being chartered to Uzbekistan.

EVERYBODY with an IQ over 80 knows what was going to happen to those "suspected" terrorists we were shipping to uzbekistan. Don't be naive sfreak.
 
What is this country coming to where lawyers will actually sue someone for participating in torture and kidnapping.... a really sad state of affairs that it would have to come to lawyers working to prevent torture anyway....
 
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Darla... actually, I would like you or anyone else to provide one shred of evidence they were tortured. To date, all I have seen is "testimony" from terrorists or their lawyers. You and others are assuming they are tortured because they are taken to other countries. Did you ever stop to think that they are taken to other countries to avoid all the frivilous crap that goes on here?

US... SHOW ME where Jeppesen participated in torture. They filed a flight plan and flew the CIA and terrorists to other countries. YOU assume they are being tortured.... because that is what you WANT to believe. I am not being naive, I beleive some may have indeed been tortured, but to act as if Jeppesen is responsible is idiotic.

Again... should the ACLU also sue the companies that make the parts for the planes? Or how about a lawsuit against the companies that provide financial services to Jeppesen? All the companies that do business with Jeppesen? I mean they all know that Jeppesen provides flight services for the government. Should they also not be included... for surely supporting the company that provides services to the government should also be included since they too would have KNOWN the government was torturing the hell out of these terrorists. Why are they not all included?

Also... why not go after Boeing... the PARENT company of Jeppesen?
 
Sf, this is very upsetting that you would say this. I will get you an interview I would like for you to read, but not until this evening. I can't do it from work.
 
Superfreak said:
Darla... actually, I would like you or anyone else to provide one shred of evidence they were tortured. To date, all I have seen is "testimony" from terrorists or their lawyers. You and others are assuming they are tortured because they are taken to other countries. Did you ever stop to think that they are taken to other countries to avoid all the frivilous crap that goes on here?

US... SHOW ME where Jeppesen participated in torture. They filed a flight plan and flew the CIA and terrorists to other countries. YOU assume they are being tortured.... because that is what you WANT to believe. I am not being naive, I beleive some may have indeed been tortured, but to act as if Jeppesen is responsible is idiotic.

Again... should the ACLU also sue the companies that make the parts for the planes? Or how about a lawsuit against the companies that provide financial services to Jeppesen? All the companies that do business with Jeppesen? I mean they all know that Jeppesen provides flight services for the government. Should they also not be included... for surely supporting the company that provides services to the government should also be included since they too would have KNOWN the government was torturing the hell out of these terrorists. Why are they not all included?

Also... why not go after Boeing... the PARENT company of Jeppesen?
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Ahh you pronounce them guilty of terrorism without due process....That figures.
And pronounce Jeppson not guilty without due process, how fair and balanced :)
 
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