An idea for bipartisan tax reform

Oneuli

Verified User
When Republicans say "tax reform," they're usually talking about ideas for shifting more of the tax burden away from the donor class, and to the working class. When Democrats say it, they're picturing the opposite. But there are ideas for tax reform that could be bipartisan, in the sense that they neither raise nor lower overall revenues, nor result in any major burden shifts. They just create efficiencies and make compliance easier. A classic example would be lowering nominal rates while closing inefficient loopholes. Here's another idea, which I haven't heard talked about much: simplify and harmonize laws for people working in multiple states.

You may not even realize it, but chances are, if you travel at all, you break tax law all the time, by failing to pay income taxes in multiple states. You see, every state has its own rules about when non-residents have to pay income taxes in the state, and some of them are extreme.

To borrow an example I found online, picture if you're traveling from your home in Ohio to California for vacation and you have to switch planes in Colorado. While at the Denver airport, you check your smart phone to see if you got any work emails, and you reply to one. Well, according to Colorado law, which has a "first day' rule, you now have to file income tax in Colorado. Colorado isn't the only "First day rule" example. Other places where doing any work in the state triggers state income taxes for a non-resident are AL, AR, CT, DE, IL, IN, IA, KS, KY, LA, MD, MA, MI, MN, MS, MO, MT, NE, NC, OH, PA, and VT.

https://money.howstuffworks.com/per...le-working-and-living-in-different-states.htm

https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/resear...oad-warrior-state-income-tax-laws-vary-widely

Some states have a more sensible rule, where there are earnings or days thresholds before you have to file taxes in the state. That way, if you happen to work for a day or two, or even a week, in a state, you aren't expected to file taxes there. But even those states can screw people up, or screw them over, with weird quirks. Take New York, for example. Let's say you live and generally work out of a home office in Arizona, but you have a particular project in NY that causes you to cross its threshold (I believe it's 14 days in a year). Well, with various caveats, NY is going to not only expect you to pay taxes on the portion of your working days spent in NY, but also a portion of the days you worked out of the home in the other state. For example, my understanding is if you worked 250 days in the year, 20 in NY, 10 in Kansas, and the rest at your home in Arizona, New York will not only expect you to report the 20/250 of your salary as being in NY, but may also claim up to 2/3 of the 220 days you were working at home.

That sounds insane, I know, but read up on it:

https://www.tax.ny.gov/pdf/memos/income/m06_5i.pdf

Since the various state tax laws do not harmonize at all, a person can be subject to double taxation.

To give you an example, a tax professor at a NY university telecommuted from his home in Connecticut, a few days per week. NY and Connecticut both considered his time working from his home to be income subject to that state's tax. So, he'd have to pay tax on it twice. He brought suit about the double taxation and lost:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/nyctap/I03_0138.htm
https://blog.oup.com/2011/06/barker/

If you were to make an honest effort to comply with every state's tax rules that you set foot in, and you travel much at all, you might well have to file dozens of state tax returns per year. And you could end up paying taxes on the same dollar many times over -- for example, if you sent work emails and made work phone calls several times during the course of a train trip that crossed ten states in a day, in theory as many as ten states' laws could say you earned that whole day's income in their state and owe taxes on it to them. In theory, you could owe much more in taxes than you earned.

As a practical matter, most people just ignore this bullshit and assume they won't be audited. And, as a practical matter, few people will be. There are some people who are at risk, like pro athletes and touring celebrities, since there's a lot of money at stake there, and the state government would find it easy to establish which days they did work in a particular state. But with electronic metadata, that's more and more possible for any of us. If you do work via phone calls and the Internet, it's not going to be difficult to establish that you worked in a particular state on a particular set of days, even if it did just consist of a few quick calls while on vacation. Moreover, the employee can effectively trigger an audit for the employer, or vice versa, if one reports and the other doesn't.

When the laws are this absurdly impractical to follow, and have the potential for being this unfair in practice, they're bad laws. What we need is for the Federal government to step in and harmonize the laws -- create a single rule that applies everywhere, with regard to which state gets your income taxes for a particular scenario, with no double taxation, and with a high enough threshold that we're not inadvertently creating the need for extra tax returns for incidental bits of work. You could even have some sort of "safe harbor" provision, where, if there is disagreement between states or genuine ambiguity about where you owe taxes for a particular day of work, you can pay a simple flat tax to the federal government for that day (based on the average of all state rates, for example), and that relieves you of tax liability to any contending state for that day. That way a telecommuter or a "road warrior" can have some certainty.

There have been attempts to reform the laws in these ways, but they never go anywhere. These days, though, when most things are too partisan to move forward, maybe it's a rare chance for both sides to come together for the sake of common sense.

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/113/hr1129

More information:

https://www.mobileworkforcecoalition.org/problem/
 
it is made hard to decipher on purpose


that way its harder for people to understand whos carrying the burden



a simplification could help


but the ONLY way to achieve actual fairness is the rich pay way more


Nothing ese makes sense
 
When Republicans say "tax reform," they're usually talking about ideas for shifting more of the tax burden away from the donor class, and to the working class. When Democrats say it, they're picturing the opposite.

Give me one good reason why I should read any further than I quoted. When you begin a thread with absolute lies, don't expect to be taken seriously.
 
it is made hard to decipher on purpose


that way its harder for people to understand whos carrying the burden



a simplification could help


but the ONLY way to achieve actual fairness is the rich pay way more


Nothing ese makes sense

The rich already pay "way more". How much "way more" do you want them to pay?
 
during the 1950s


you know that time all you republicans want to go back to


it was like 70-90 percent


they still were rich as fuck

and the people were able to live decent lives
 
When Republicans say "tax reform," they're usually talking about ideas for shifting more of the tax burden away from the donor class, and to the working class.

This is a LIE and it is LAME. When you begin your premise based on likes and strawmen, you have already lost the argument. Where does this claim they shifted the tax burden onto the working class come from. Let's see a LINK snowflake. Or is this just another of your infamous "because I say so" pieces of feces?
 
Or you could just say fuck it and not worry about it

Yes. However, if you read up on it, you'll see there have been more and more efforts at enforcement by revenue-hungry states. Chances are you'll get away with it, but if you're one of the unlucky few little guys singled out, it could wind up being very expensive.

In most cases I can think of, there's a fairly realistic way a state could find out you worked in the state and didn't pay taxes there. For example, if your employer is audited, or your client, and you're on their books as having done a job in the state, it would be very easy to cross-check that against their tax records and see you never reported any income from that work.
 
it is made hard to decipher on purpose


that way its harder for people to understand whos carrying the burden



a simplification could help


but the ONLY way to achieve actual fairness is the rich pay way more


Nothing ese makes sense

Intellectually lazy reasoning
 
Yes. However, if you read up on it, you'll see there have been more and more efforts at enforcement by revenue-hungry states. Chances are you'll get away with it, but if you're one of the unlucky few little guys singled out, it could wind up being very expensive.

In most cases I can think of, there's a fairly realistic way a state could find out you worked in the state and didn't pay taxes there. For example, if your employer is audited, or your client, and you're on their books as having done a job in the state, it would be very easy to cross-check that against their tax records and see you never reported any income from that work.


Fuck em
 
When the laws are this absurdly impractical to follow, and have the potential for being this unfair in practice, they're bad laws. What we need is for the Federal government to step in and harmonize the laws -- create a single rule that applies everywhere, with regard to which state gets your income taxes for a particular scenario, with no double taxation, and with a high enough threshold that we're not inadvertently creating the need for extra tax returns for incidental bits of work.

Any attempt by the Federal Government to mandate rules for how they govern that are not Constitutional violations, are Unconstitutional. If you weren't such an illiterate punk, you would know that.

The scenario you present appears to be a solution seeking a problem. How many taxpayers have been dinged for conducting work on their phones in a State that has these laws? ZERO?
 
it is made hard to decipher on purpose


that way its harder for people to understand whos carrying the burden



a simplification could help


but the ONLY way to achieve actual fairness is the rich pay way more


Nothing ese makes sense

I'm all for having the rich pay way more, but as long as the Republicans have a majority in the Senate, that's not happening, because the rich own them. But I think there's a short-term achievable goal in doing something about this particular problem, since it creates difficulties for both constituencies. For the rich, it can create a lot of uncertainty and risk of double-taxation, as well as needless complexity, red-tape, and expense for employers. And for the rest of us, it's arguably even worse, since we can't afford the kind of tax consultants who can figure this crap out for us, so it's a real personal headache and risk.
 
Yes. However, if you read up on it, you'll see there have been more and more efforts at enforcement by revenue-hungry states. Chances are you'll get away with it, but if you're one of the unlucky few little guys singled out, it could wind up being very expensive.

In most cases I can think of, there's a fairly realistic way a state could find out you worked in the state and didn't pay taxes there. For example, if your employer is audited, or your client, and you're on their books as having done a job in the state, it would be very easy to cross-check that against their tax records and see you never reported any income from that work.

Name ONE case where this has occurred. ONE.
 

Running for luck is definitely a strategy. But, it's one that could end up costing a lot more if you're one of the unlucky ones. In addition to the cost of the audit itself, and the cost of tax penalties, you have a greater risk of double-taxation if you don't do it right the first time. For example, if you just pay 100% of your taxes in State A, even though 10% of your working days were in State B, not only could you end up having to pay that 10% to State B later, but you're unlikely to get it back from State A, at that point (where it's possible they'd have given you relief for it at the time). You're also less likely to get back any federal taxes you wouldn't have paid if you'd properly accounted for it (e.g., if State B's taxes were higher than State A and you only wrote off what you paid to State A at the time).
 
I'm all for having the rich pay way more, but as long as the Republicans have a majority in the Senate, that's not happening, because the rich own them.

LIE and LAME. The richest people living here are Democrats snowflake. How does the GOP "own" them?

I am also amused by the canard suggesting that the Rich do not pay their share. In truth, they pay the LIONS share of taxes.

I am equally amused by the canard suggesting that we have a REVENUE problem in this country. We do not. We have a SPENDING problem. If you had a brain, you too could comprehend the OBVIOUS.

But I think there's a short-term achievable goal in doing something about this particular problem, since it creates difficulties for both constituencies. For the rich, it can create a lot of uncertainty and risk of double-taxation, as well as needless complexity, red-tape, and expense for employers. And for the rest of us, it's arguably even worse, since we can't afford the kind of tax consultants who can figure this crap out for us, so it's a real personal headache and risk.

Yet not ONE person has ever complained about this "fantasy" double taxation nor have there been any States claiming it is a problem.

So this begs the question, what it the purpose of such an argument if it is a solution in search of a problem? I find it curious and ironic when it also comes from people like you who don't think the Government taxes us enough.
 
The republican party has been neutered by Trump


it will soon be DEAD

that means they wont be cheating in elections


they wont be fighting gerrymandering cases


they wont be able to get their lies heard


For a time democrats wont be able to be bought by the wealthy



The second they start buying some assholes we will have had a time where the people can get what they want democraticly



and we can purge our own party of the ones who cave if we pay attention
 
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