An Idea for Student Debt Relief

Mina

Verified User
Unlike most liberals, I don't like the idea of generalized elimination of student debt.

Partly that's because I dislike the idea of a net transfer of wealth to people like young doctors and lawyers who will end up making a killing in their lifetimes.

Partly it's that I don't like the injustice of it in a situation where you compare someone who spent years making sacrifices to pay down what she owes, and a peer who lived the high life while making only minimum payments and taking every deferment opportunity, and now they're both put in the same situation.

But mostly it's because I worry about the unintended consequences -- for example, if lenders worry about debts being wiped out again, they'll charge much higher rates to account for that risk, making education even less affordable. Similarly, if people implicitly factor in the chance of having debt wiped out, they'll be willing to take on more of it, which puts upward pressure on college costs.

So, here's my pet idea, in lieu of that:

The government agrees to pay off however much student debt you'd like them to pay off, but in exchange you get a PERMANENT increase in all your tax rates of 0.1 point (income, estate, and capital gains), for each $1,000 of debt the government assumes.

So, say you graduate with $50,000 in student debt at 10yrs/5% terms, but you can only find work paying $30,000 per year. And so that $6,364 per year in loan payments is just killing you. You can wipe it all out, and in exchange your tax rates go up 5 points. Based on a $12,550 standard deduction, you would have been on the hook for $1,895 in taxes, but after the increase you'd be on the hook for $2,270. So, year one, you're relieved of $6,364 in payments, in exchange for $375 in extra taxes. Great deal. And even across a lifetime of earning, you are likely to come out ahead with that deal, unless you wind up making a lot more money down the road. So, you'd probably be smart to take the deal.

Now say that, instead, you're a freshly minted lawyer with a job offer from a big firm to earn $200,000. Well, now, if you take that same offer to wipe out $50k in debt for a permanent 5 point hike in tax rates, then year one you get the same $6,364 off your loan liability, but it's in exchange for a year one increase in taxes of $14,169. So, right out of the gate, it's a garbage deal, and you won't take it. You'll just pay what you owe.

Where it gets a bit tougher is in the middle. Like same deal, but your job pays $60k/year. Taking the deal helps you out in the early years: $6,365/year of debt payment relief in exchange for $3,498 more in taxes. But ten years down the road, that loan would be going away, anyway, whereas that tax increase persists. So, if you're really hurting right now, maybe it's worth paying more in the long haul in exchange for relief when you really need it. But if you're honest with yourself, you may admit the current pain isn't really that bad, so just bite bullet, tighten your belt, and pay what you owe.

You can tweak this idea by adjusting what dollar amounts equate with what tax change. Like if it's 0.1 point of hike for every $2,000, instead of every $1,000, it's friendlier to debtors..... it still wouldn't be attractive the lawyer in the second example, but will look like a better deal for the guy making $60k in the third.

The advantage of this system is that it gives people an incentive to be honest with the government, and themselves, about future earning prospects. If you're genuinely desperate, you'll jump at this, but if you know you're just temporarily strapped and will soon have plenty of money, you won't offload that debt onto the taxpayer when you know it'll mean higher taxes on a lifetime of high earnings. And it preserve the incentive to keep school costs low, since you pay at least some of it in some form, regardless.
 
Unlike most liberals, I don't like the idea of generalized elimination of student debt.

Partly that's because I dislike the idea of a net transfer of wealth to people like young doctors and lawyers who will end up making a killing in their lifetimes.

Partly it's that I don't like the injustice of it in a situation where you compare someone who spent years making sacrifices to pay down what she owes, and a peer who lived the high life while making only minimum payments and taking every deferment opportunity, and now they're both put in the same situation.

But mostly it's because I worry about the unintended consequences -- for example, if lenders worry about debts being wiped out again, they'll charge much higher rates to account for that risk, making education even less affordable. Similarly, if people implicitly factor in the chance of having debt wiped out, they'll be willing to take on more of it, which puts upward pressure on college costs.

So, here's my pet idea, in lieu of that:

The government agrees to pay off however much student debt you'd like them to pay off, but in exchange you get a PERMANENT increase in all your tax rates of 0.1 point (income, estate, and capital gains), for each $1,000 of debt the government assumes.

So, say you graduate with $50,000 in student debt at 10yrs/5% terms, but you can only find work paying $30,000 per year. And so that $6,364 per year in loan payments is just killing you. You can wipe it all out, and in exchange your tax rates go up 5 points. Based on a $12,550 standard deduction, you would have been on the hook for $1,895 in taxes, but after the increase you'd be on the hook for $2,270. So, year one, you're relieved of $6,364 in payments, in exchange for $375 in extra taxes. Great deal. And even across a lifetime of earning, you are likely to come out ahead with that deal, unless you wind up making a lot more money down the road. So, you'd probably be smart to take the deal.

Now say that, instead, you're a freshly minted lawyer with a job offer from a big firm to earn $200,000. Well, now, if you take that same offer to wipe out $50k in debt for a permanent 5 point hike in tax rates, then year one you get the same $6,364 off your loan liability, but it's in exchange for a year one increase in taxes of $14,169. So, right out of the gate, it's a garbage deal, and you won't take it. You'll just pay what you owe.

Where it gets a bit tougher is in the middle. Like same deal, but your job pays $60k/year. Taking the deal helps you out in the early years: $6,365/year of debt payment relief in exchange for $3,498 more in taxes. But ten years down the road, that loan would be going away, anyway, whereas that tax increase persists. So, if you're really hurting right now, maybe it's worth paying more in the long haul in exchange for relief when you really need it. But if you're honest with yourself, you may admit the current pain isn't really that bad, so just bite bullet, tighten your belt, and pay what you owe.

You can tweak this idea by adjusting what dollar amounts equate with what tax change. Like if it's 0.1 point of hike for every $2,000, instead of every $1,000, it's friendlier to debtors..... it still wouldn't be attractive the lawyer in the second example, but will look like a better deal for the guy making $60k in the third.

The advantage of this system is that it gives people an incentive to be honest with the government, and themselves, about future earning prospects. If you're genuinely desperate, you'll jump at this, but if you know you're just temporarily strapped and will soon have plenty of money, you won't offload that debt onto the taxpayer when you know it'll mean higher taxes on a lifetime of high earnings. And it preserve the incentive to keep school costs low, since you pay at least some of it in some form, regardless.

Sounds reasonable to me. Too complicated for most to understand, I can tell you from experience.
I came up with a universal health care plan (MooseCare) that made perfect sense to me and to a few others but way, way over the heads of 95% of the board I was on.
 
Sounds reasonable to me. Too complicated for most to understand, I can tell you from experience.
I came up with a universal health care plan (MooseCare) that made perfect sense to me and to a few others but way, way over the heads of 95% of the board I was on.

Maybe I should just go with the "long story short" version: you can choose debt relief, but in exchange your taxes are permanently higher, such that higher earners would do better just to pay their debts.
 
its an interesting and sensible approach. Might be better if that extra tax thing lowers over time if it can continue to provide for the disincentive for high earners.
 
Since all student loan debt did not go just for education, I think they should just pay it. There should not be rewards for irresponsible or bad behavior.
 
Sounds reasonable to me. Too complicated for most to understand, I can tell you from experience.
I came up with a universal health care plan (MooseCare) that made perfect sense to me and to a few others but way, way over the heads of 95% of the board I was on.
That was the problem. It only made sense to you. In the end, it depended on the govt. to fund quite a few people.
 
Maybe I should just go with the "long story short" version: you can choose debt relief, but in exchange your taxes are permanently higher, such that higher earners would do better just to pay their debts.
Better to discourage kids from taking a 4 year vacation from the real world via worthless degrees.

I'm for funding trade programs instead of college, and expanding existing programs for worthwhile degrees that allow you to work off your loans via community service.
 
Better to discourage kids from taking a 4 year vacation from the real world via worthless degrees.

I'm for funding trade programs instead of college, and expanding existing programs for worthwhile degrees that allow you to work off your loans via community service.

Who will teach English and math to kids? Who will do engineering? Or chemistry?
 
Maybe I should just go with the "long story short" version: you can choose debt relief, but in exchange your taxes are permanently higher, such that higher earners would do better just to pay their debts.
Isn't there something like that in place now? Like no more than 10% of earnings required in paying student loans?

Mike Meru Has $1 Million in Student Loans.
Escalating tuition and easy credit have yielded a class of student-loan borrowers with spectacular debt they may never pay back
https://www.wsj.com/articles/mike-meru-has-1-million-in-student-loans-how-did-that-happen-1527252975

There's a paywall so I'll summarize.
This guy's an orthodontist and his monthly payment doesn't even pay the interest because he only makes $200,000/yr. If I remember correctly after twenty years of paying on time and regularly the loan is forgiven.

My personal opinion is that the guy's a loser if he's an orthodontist and earned that little. I could do that in my sleep as a general dentist.
I have several friends that are orthodontists and $2500 is like 25¢. One said he had a license to print money.
 
That was the problem. It only made sense to you.
No, a few others that understood it considered it genius.
In the end, it depended on the govt. to fund quite a few people.

Everybody paid into the system. Gubmint only funded the poor, like medicaid does now. It was waaay over your head. Especially the part where unused HSA funds could be donated or bequeathed. In your defense I posted it in its entirety on the old DCJunkies. Wait, you were there! No excuse.
 
Many kids going to college are not from wealthy families. So they borrow in order to get a degree.
New Mexico just instituted a program to make undergraduate college free to residents.
Louisiana has the same called TOPS. Of course the student has to qualify (like in Germany).
 
Unlike most liberals, I don't like the idea of generalized elimination of student debt.

Partly that's because I dislike the idea of a net transfer of wealth to people like young doctors and lawyers who will end up making a killing in their lifetimes.

Partly it's that I don't like the injustice of it in a situation where you compare someone who spent years making sacrifices to pay down what she owes, and a peer who lived the high life while making only minimum payments and taking every deferment opportunity, and now they're both put in the same situation.

But mostly it's because I worry about the unintended consequences -- for example, if lenders worry about debts being wiped out again, they'll charge much higher rates to account for that risk, making education even less affordable. Similarly, if people implicitly factor in the chance of having debt wiped out, they'll be willing to take on more of it, which puts upward pressure on college costs.

So, here's my pet idea, in lieu of that:

The government agrees to pay off however much student debt you'd like them to pay off, but in exchange you get a PERMANENT increase in all your tax rates of 0.1 point (income, estate, and capital gains), for each $1,000 of debt the government assumes.

So, say you graduate with $50,000 in student debt at 10yrs/5% terms, but you can only find work paying $30,000 per year. And so that $6,364 per year in loan payments is just killing you. You can wipe it all out, and in exchange your tax rates go up 5 points. Based on a $12,550 standard deduction, you would have been on the hook for $1,895 in taxes, but after the increase you'd be on the hook for $2,270. So, year one, you're relieved of $6,364 in payments, in exchange for $375 in extra taxes. Great deal. And even across a lifetime of earning, you are likely to come out ahead with that deal, unless you wind up making a lot more money down the road. So, you'd probably be smart to take the deal.

Now say that, instead, you're a freshly minted lawyer with a job offer from a big firm to earn $200,000. Well, now, if you take that same offer to wipe out $50k in debt for a permanent 5 point hike in tax rates, then year one you get the same $6,364 off your loan liability, but it's in exchange for a year one increase in taxes of $14,169. So, right out of the gate, it's a garbage deal, and you won't take it. You'll just pay what you owe.

Where it gets a bit tougher is in the middle. Like same deal, but your job pays $60k/year. Taking the deal helps you out in the early years: $6,365/year of debt payment relief in exchange for $3,498 more in taxes. But ten years down the road, that loan would be going away, anyway, whereas that tax increase persists. So, if you're really hurting right now, maybe it's worth paying more in the long haul in exchange for relief when you really need it. But if you're honest with yourself, you may admit the current pain isn't really that bad, so just bite bullet, tighten your belt, and pay what you owe.

You can tweak this idea by adjusting what dollar amounts equate with what tax change. Like if it's 0.1 point of hike for every $2,000, instead of every $1,000, it's friendlier to debtors..... it still wouldn't be attractive the lawyer in the second example, but will look like a better deal for the guy making $60k in the third.

The advantage of this system is that it gives people an incentive to be honest with the government, and themselves, about future earning prospects. If you're genuinely desperate, you'll jump at this, but if you know you're just temporarily strapped and will soon have plenty of money, you won't offload that debt onto the taxpayer when you know it'll mean higher taxes on a lifetime of high earnings. And it preserve the incentive to keep school costs low, since you pay at least some of it in some form, regardless.

I got one, and this is gonna shock the living fuck out of you! DO NOT TAKE ON MORE DEBT THAN YOU CAN HANDLE.

THE END, BITCH!


I made it though college with Pell grants and part-time jobs and tutoring in-school for credits.
 
Isn't there something like that in place now? Like no more than 10% of earnings required in paying student loans?

Mike Meru Has $1 Million in Student Loans.
Escalating tuition and easy credit have yielded a class of student-loan borrowers with spectacular debt they may never pay back
https://www.wsj.com/articles/mike-meru-has-1-million-in-student-loans-how-did-that-happen-1527252975

There's a paywall so I'll summarize.
This guy's an orthodontist and his monthly payment doesn't even pay the interest because he only makes $200,000/yr. If I remember correctly after twenty years of paying on time and regularly the loan is forgiven.

My personal opinion is that the guy's a loser if he's an orthodontist and earned that little. I could do that in my sleep as a general dentist.
I have several friends that are orthodontists and $2500 is like 25¢. One said he had a license to print money.

Interesting. $200k is good money, even in medicine. What struck me as more interesting is the $1M in loans. Even at $80k per year, which is near the top of the range for schools, and eight years, that's still just $640k in debt. It seems like it would take some work to get it up to $1M.

Anyway, my idea would break for his case. To clear $1M would require a 100-point increase in taxes. But the alternate idea, of a 0.1-point increase per $2,000 forgiven might work for him. He could wipe out that debt and in exchange have tax rates in the 80% range on his top bracket.... which is brutal but hardly unprecedented (rates went as high as 92% in the past, and were 70% for a long period through the early 1980's).
 
Public education should be government funded and tax supported-even to eventual doctors and lawyers who will go on to make big money.

Before they make big money, however, they should be obligated to a period of public service.

That's the civilized way to do it, and thus the reason why America probably never will.
 
Public education should be government funded and tax supported-even to eventual doctors and lawyers who will go on to make big money.

Before they make big money, however, they should be obligated to a period of public service.

That's the civilized way to do it, and thus the reason why America probably never will.

Public service like what?
 
Back
Top