Another Poker thread that only MBL and I will Read

[BRUTALITOPS]

Sup.

I have been finding myself winning more and more recently, and making correct calls and reads that I wouldn't have been able to do even a few months ago. Last week I won back to back sit n go's, and the week before that, I placed 3rd in a multi of about 30-40 people.... so in two weeks I'm up around 800 dollars.

The sit n go's I play kinda suck though, you start with 3000 chips with blinds at 100, 100, going up every ten minutes. At first, I thought it sucked, and this structure does suck (but I don't have many options where I live so I kinda have to take it) - but what I have noticed is BECAUSE I have been forced to play in these extremly short stacked games, that when I transfer over to a game in which I am 50-100 times the big blind, it's easy street for me. I suppose there is advantages afterall to such a ridiculous structure.

that's all for now.

 

[doniston]

Sup.

I have been finding myself winning more and more recently, and making correct calls and reads that I wouldn't have been able to do even a few months ago. Last week I won back to back sit n go's, and the week before that, I placed 3rd in a multi of about 30-40 people.... so in two weeks I'm up around 800 dollars.

The sit n go's I play kinda suck though, you start with 3000 chips with blinds at 100, 100, going up every ten minutes. At first, I thought it sucked, and this structure does suck (but I don't have many options where I live so I kinda have to take it) - but what I have noticed is BECAUSE I have been forced to play in these extremly short stacked games, that when I transfer over to a game in which I am 50-100 times the big blind, it's easy street for me. I suppose there is advantages afterall to such a ridiculous structure.

that's all for now.

Me, I enjoy a good game of poker, but I wouldn't be caught dead in these Texas Holdim contests. that to me simply isn't poker. that is bluff and rin. I would dearly love to get a good penny anti-pot limit poker game going. Including Low-ball, and all the ofddlittle "wild" games It could include texas Holdum, but not the "bet it all "version.

 

[Damocles]

Life's no good if you aren't learning. Sounds like you are having fun.

 

[BRUTALITOPS]

Me, I enjoy a good game of poker, but I wouldn't be caught dead in these Texas Holdim contests. that to me simply isn't poker. that is bluff and rin. I would dearly love to get a good penny anti-pot limit poker game going. Including Low-ball, and all the ofddlittle "wild" games It could include texas Holdum, but not the "bet it all "version.

there is a lot more to holdem than just bluffing and running, especially in ring games. you should give it more of a chance.

 

[Beefy]

Sup.

I have been finding myself winning more and more recently, and making correct calls and reads that I wouldn't have been able to do even a few months ago. Last week I won back to back sit n go's, and the week before that, I placed 3rd in a multi of about 30-40 people.... so in two weeks I'm up around 800 dollars.

The sit n go's I play kinda suck though, you start with 3000 chips with blinds at 100, 100, going up every ten minutes. At first, I thought it sucked, and this structure does suck (but I don't have many options where I live so I kinda have to take it) - but what I have noticed is BECAUSE I have been forced to play in these extremly short stacked games, that when I transfer over to a game in which I am 50-100 times the big blind, it's easy street for me. I suppose there is advantages afterall to such a ridiculous structure.

that's all for now.

Sounds like you're over the hump at your limits. Maybe its time to move up. Just make sure to keep your tournament and cash game play independent of one another to an extent. I managed to place first at a tourney at mandalay last month for a nice little payday. And the cash games at the casinos are as good as they've ever been. There's still ripe fields of fish who learned everything they know about the game by watching the final table of a 4 day marathon which is narrated by Dunce Van Patten.

And as for Donny, No-Limit is far more complex than limit. No limit is a battle of balls, guts, reads, and math. Limit is pretty much showdown poker every time. The ability in No-Limit to alter the pot-odds greatly makes it a far more skilled game than limit. Look at the tournaments at the WSOP this year. There's always some no-name fish hitting the limit final tables, but the best players in the world are the ones at the no limit final tables.

To paraphrase Daniel Negreanu, limit is a science, no limit is an art.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

Sup.

I have been finding myself winning more and more recently, and making correct calls and reads that I wouldn't have been able to do even a few months ago. Last week I won back to back sit n go's, and the week before that, I placed 3rd in a multi of about 30-40 people.... so in two weeks I'm up around 800 dollars.

The sit n go's I play kinda suck though, you start with 3000 chips with blinds at 100, 100, going up every ten minutes. At first, I thought it sucked, and this structure does suck (but I don't have many options where I live so I kinda have to take it) - but what I have noticed is BECAUSE I have been forced to play in these extremly short stacked games, that when I transfer over to a game in which I am 50-100 times the big blind, it's easy street for me. I suppose there is advantages afterall to such a ridiculous structure.

that's all for now.

I read it. Didn't understand it. But read it. So am I in the club?

 

[doniston]

there is a lot more to holdem than just bluffing and running, especially in ring games. you should give it more of a chance.

I know that, but not much. I have watched it on the tele, and I want no part of it.

There seems to be little science to it, mostly luck.

 

[DigitalDave]

I just got done with a No Limit Tourny over the weekend as well. I was a new face and was having a lot of trouble reading these guys. They put bounties on people and I happened to get to be the bounty. They were coming after me like crazy. I would flop top pair and have to fold because the two under cards were suited. I wouldn't bet as much as they were raising when they had draws, so I would end up folding nearly every hand. I folded pocket A's after the flop because I put them on two pair with a bet four times the pot. I did hold on to about three hands and won. But after folding so many times I was down to about 30% of my original stack. Then I flopped a middle pair with a straight and flush draw. I was not backing down from top pair but made the mistake of letting the other guy raise me to all in. He flopped a straight and I was praying for a heart. It didn't come and I was out.

There is a science to No Limit pre-flop, and you can kind of read people's hands based on bet size, but it's after the flop that you really start having to guess. When you play with a bounty on your head, the bets make it harder to read since they are usually larger than a normal good player would bet.

My favorite though is traps. I tought my g/f to trap and she made it to the final table. Got 7th out of 40. It's the best she's ever done. But, she had pocket 10's and A 10 6 comes up on the flop. Her opponent flops top pair with K kicker, but she was first to act. She checked it. He raises her, she reraises him, he goes all in thinking he has this. They throw down their cards and he is pissed! She took the guy out on the 2nd hand of the game and doubles up. She is getting really good, and right now I'm trying to learn new ways of playing and seeing how they work, so that I can change gears constantly in a game and not give someone an idea of what my hand is.

 

[doniston]

Sounds like you're over the hump at your limits. Maybe its time to move up. Just make sure to keep your tournament and cash game play independent of one another to an extent. I managed to place first at a tourney at mandalay last month for a nice little payday. And the cash games at the casinos are as good as they've ever been. There's still ripe fields of fish who learned everything they know about the game by watching the final table of a 4 day marathon which is narrated by Dunce Van Patten.

And as for Donny, No-Limit is far more complex than limit. No limit is a battle of balls, guts, reads, and math. Limit is pretty much showdown poker every time. The ability in No-Limit to alter the pot-odds greatly makes it a far more skilled game than limit. Look at the tournaments at the WSOP this year. There's always some no-name fish hitting the limit final tables, but the best players in the world are the ones at the no limit final tables.

To paraphrase Daniel Negreanu, limit is a science, no limit is an art.

Nonsense,

Limit games, (not nickle dime types) have all of those factors and more. and if you don't know that, then you haven't played much pot. Granted Texas Holdum takes lots more chances (gues-timations) but I'd rather play science.

 

[DigitalDave]

I know that, but not much. I have watched it on the tele, and I want no part of it.

There seems to be little science to it, mostly luck.

Oh no way! Luck won't last you in this game. You can only stay lucky for so long then you gotta use skill to win money. There is a skill to drawing as much money out of each hand as possible, and a skill to putting the right amount of pressure to get someone to fold without risking your whole stack. There is a skill to reading your opponents, whether the are loose or tight. In Limit games, any newcomer can play without much worry of losing a large amount of chips on one hand, and there is almost always a showdown.

 

[doniston]

Oh no way! Luck won't last you in this game. You can only stay lucky for so long then you gotta use skill to win money. There is a skill to drawing as much money out of each hand as possible, and a skill to putting the right amount of pressure to get someone to fold without risking your whole stack. There is a skill to reading your opponents, whether the are loose or tight. In Limit games, any newcomer can play without much worry of losing a large amount of chips on one hand, and there is almost always a showdown.

Then you don't play the game like I do. and the showdown is where the fun is. You see, with you, it appears that the Chips are the thing, with me, the GAME is the thhing. I've only been playing for sixty odd years.

 

[Beefy]

Nonsense,

Limit games, (not nickle dime types) have all of those factors and more. and if you don't know that, then you haven't played much pot. Granted Texas Holdum takes lots more chances (gues-timations) but I'd rather play science.

I've been playing for 15 years, and in the casinos for 10. No limit is a far more skillful game than limit. It is the true test of skills.

There's a reason that the World Champ of poker has been defined for 37 years by no limit hold em.

Yes, limit games (and I've played 7 stud, 5 draw, Omaha & 5 stud extensively) require a certain degree of skill. But different skills are required of no limit players. When you put a limit player into a no limit situation, they usually get crushed because they treat the game as a science. But when other players can change the math of the game, it messes up a limit players perspective.

On the flip side of that, an experienced player who primarily plays no limit will have to adjust to a limit game. But in limit, pot-odds are pot odds, they're relatively clear cut and straight forward, in no limit, you can change them and really put your opponent to the test. Limit is more about luck, no limit is more about skill. Not totally, but moreso.

 

[Beefy]

I know that, but not much. I have watched it on the tele, and I want no part of it.

There seems to be little science to it, mostly luck.

What you're seeing on the television is the tail end of a marathon event. The last 6 out of fields of up to 650 players. Tournament play is different than cash game play as well. Watch the Part Poker Millions event - its a limit event, and by the time you're down to the last six, the blinds and antes are so high that the play changes.

What you see on TV is about 1% of the reality out there. I love playing against people who think that what they see on TV is normal cash game play. I see it all the time and I've made a ton of money because of it. The TV shit is entertainment, not strategy. They're taking a 5-10 hour final table and condensing it into about an hour and 15 minutes of play. Take it with a grain of salt.

 

[Beefy]

I just got done with a No Limit Tourny over the weekend as well. I was a new face and was having a lot of trouble reading these guys. They put bounties on people and I happened to get to be the bounty. They were coming after me like crazy. I would flop top pair and have to fold because the two under cards were suited. I wouldn't bet as much as they were raising when they had draws, so I would end up folding nearly every hand. I folded pocket A's after the flop because I put them on two pair with a bet four times the pot. I did hold on to about three hands and won. But after folding so many times I was down to about 30% of my original stack. Then I flopped a middle pair with a straight and flush draw. I was not backing down from top pair but made the mistake of letting the other guy raise me to all in. He flopped a straight and I was praying for a heart. It didn't come and I was out.

There is a science to No Limit pre-flop, and you can kind of read people's hands based on bet size, but it's after the flop that you really start having to guess. When you play with a bounty on your head, the bets make it harder to read since they are usually larger than a normal good player would bet.

My favorite though is traps. I tought my g/f to trap and she made it to the final table. Got 7th out of 40. It's the best she's ever done. But, she had pocket 10's and A 10 6 comes up on the flop. Her opponent flops top pair with K kicker, but she was first to act. She checked it. He raises her, she reraises him, he goes all in thinking he has this. They throw down their cards and he is pissed! She took the guy out on the 2nd hand of the game and doubles up. She is getting really good, and right now I'm trying to learn new ways of playing and seeing how they work, so that I can change gears constantly in a game and not give someone an idea of what my hand is.

There is absolutely a science to pre-flop play, as well as on the flop play. I'm best at pre flop and turn play. And in no limit, traps are true powerhouses. This is where the implied odds come in. In limit games, a trap will at best yeild you one extra bet. In no limit, calling with draws can change the pot odds into proper implied odd to make the call.

For example, I was playing at the $100 buy in table at Hollywood park about a month ago when I had an 3-5 off in the big blind. I got to see a free flop which came down 6 2 T rainbow. I had a great read on this guy Charles who made a pot sized bet (about $9) and I correctly put him on pocket sixes for a set. I made the call, knowing that if my miracle 4 shows up, I'm getting all of his money (about $140), and if it doesn't show up on the turn I'm out the $9. So my implied odds are over 15 to 1, my pot odds are 3 to one, and m chances of making the hand are about 7 to one. Sure enough, my 4 came on the turn and I got all his money.

A lot of different opinions could be said about my call, maybe it was loose, but his bet was small enough and the implied odds were large enough that I decided to make the call. If this was a limit game, I would have been out of there as my implied odds would have been only about 6 bets tops.

 

[doniston]

I've been playing for 15 years, and in the casinos for 10. No limit is a far more skillful game than limit. It is the true test of skills.

There's a reason that the World Champ of poker has been defined for 37 years by no limit hold em.

Yes, limit games (and I've played 7 stud, 5 draw, Omaha & 5 stud extensively) require a certain degree of skill. But different skills are required of no limit players. When you put a limit player into a no limit situation, they usually get crushed because they treat the game as a science. But when other players can change the math of the game, it messes up a limit players perspective.

On the flip side of that, an experienced player who primarily plays no limit will have to adjust to a limit game. But in limit, pot-odds are pot odds, they're relatively clear cut and straight forward, in no limit, you can change them and really put your opponent to the test. Limit is more about luck, no limit is more about skill. Not totally, but moreso.

Ah, that explains it, you can't find my kind of poker in the casinos. Your limit games in casinos are a far cry from the private ones. It is like you are speaking french, and I am speaking Chinese I have almost no actualy casino experience. and want none. those limit games are "painfully" limited. Were you ever in a "POT" limit game in a casino??? I doubt it. I have never heard if a casino who offered that. So we are discussing two entirely different animals.

 

[doniston]

Meanwhile back to the OP. apparently it generates much more interest than you thought.

 

[Beefy]

Ah, that explains it, you can't find my kind of poker in the casinos. Your limit games in casinos are a far cry from the private ones. It is like you are speaking french, and I am speaking Chinese I have almost no actualy casino experience. and want none. those limit games are "painfully" limited. Were you ever in a "POT" limit game in a casino??? I doubt it. I have never heard if a casino who offered that. So we are discussing two entirely different animals.

Okay, I see. Pot limit is a very skilled game as well. In fact, some pros consider it to be of higher caliber than no-limit because you have to play beyond the first betting round. Usually pot-limit hands become no limit hands by 5th street anyhow. But I haven't had much experience with pot-limit, although it is available in many casinos.

 

[BRUTALITOPS]

Another first place win. This means I have now won three tournaments in a row at my particular poker room. The table was very loose, yet strangely, no one busted for a long time. Someone would raise a lot, get lucky... get a lot of chips. Then someone a little later would take all those chips away. There were big swings but no one busted for a quite some time.

Luckily for me, I had most of the maniacs to my right, and many tight passive players to my left. Perfect setup. I especially knew one guy who was extremly tight ...I've played him three or 4 times, and each time the only hand I've ever seen from him is AK. He sits and sits until he gets blinded down, goes in with his ak, and usually one or two call because he doesn't have much. Happened again today.

I have a total retard to my right. He gives away exactly how he plays by discussing openly what he likes to play, what it would take to get him to fold... he doesn't have a clue of what is going on, always running his mouth on some tangent while everyone is waiting for him to do an action. He was arguing with one guy for 5 minutes easily and the whole table was pretty annoyed.

I was heads up with him later, he wanted to cut a deal (I was 2:1 at this point and blinds were only 500, 1k) I said I wanted to wait a little, he says now or never... so I said never. (because i am young and young looking, old people always think I would jump at money, I get deals offered probably more than most. When I turn down chops must people are surprised and I get a laugh out of it).

Anyway I won't bore you with anymore details. Good day for me.

 

[Beefy]

Another first place win. This means I have now won three tournaments in a row at my particular poker room. The table was very loose, yet strangely, no one busted for a long time. Someone would raise a lot, get lucky... get a lot of chips. Then someone a little later would take all those chips away. There were big swings but no one busted for a quite some time.

Luckily for me, I had most of the maniacs to my right, and many tight passive players to my left. Perfect setup. I especially knew one guy who was extremly tight ...I've played him three or 4 times, and each time the only hand I've ever seen from him is AK. He sits and sits until he gets blinded down, goes in with his ak, and usually one or two call because he doesn't have much. Happened again today.

I have a total retard to my right. He gives away exactly how he plays by discussing openly what he likes to play, what it would take to get him to fold... he doesn't have a clue of what is going on, always running his mouth on some tangent while everyone is waiting for him to do an action. He was arguing with one guy for 5 minutes easily and the whole table was pretty annoyed.

I was heads up with him later, he wanted to cut a deal (I was 2:1 at this point and blinds were only 500, 1k) I said I wanted to wait a little, he says now or never... so I said never. (because i am young and young looking, old people always think I would jump at money, I get deals offered probably more than most. When I turn down chops must people are surprised and I get a laugh out of it).

Anyway I won't bore you with anymore details. Good day for me.

What's the buy-in/payout structure?