Are national politics getting less extreme?

anonymoose

Classical Liberal
Admittedly this is from CNN. But CNN came out recently w/ the Kamala hit piece and the NYT blasted Biden for inflation (yes, this one's on him they say).

Opinion: Why the tide may be turning on Trump
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/poli...ing-on-trump/ar-AAQSMZX?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531

And then there's this from The Hill:

Popping the progressive bubble
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/poli...ssive-bubble/ar-AAQS9Fn?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531

I, for one, hope so. I long for the days when Gerald Ford and Ronald Reagan could make deals with Carl Bert Albert (had to google that one) and Tip O'Neill and accomplish stuff. I'd add Bill Clinton but he basically caved to Republicans, not necessarily a bad thing at a time before they went stupid. Of course now it's the Dims that are the Party of Stupid.
 
Admittedly this is from CNN. But CNN came out recently w/ the Kamala hit piece and the NYT blasted Biden for inflation (yes, this one's on him they say).

Opinion: Why the tide may be turning on Trump
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/poli...ing-on-trump/ar-AAQSMZX?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531

And then there's this from The Hill:

Popping the progressive bubble
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/poli...ssive-bubble/ar-AAQS9Fn?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531

I, for one, hope so. I long for the days when Gerald Ford and Ronald Reagan could make deals with Carl Bert Albert (had to google that one) and Tip O'Neill and accomplish stuff. I'd add Bill Clinton but he basically caved to Republicans, not necessarily a bad thing at a time before they went stupid. Of course now it's the Dims that are the Party of Stupid.


The sooner all the Jan 6 fascists are sent to prison the better.
 
I would love to think so but the MSM may have created a monster they can no longer control.
the sad part is that the left and the mushy middle to some extent still like socialism but they cannot comprehend WHY socialism hits them in the pocketbook like it does.
They know Biden and the rest of the donkey leadership are bumbling idiots but they don't realize that anyone trying to further socialism are the same. Its not JUST dementia wrong with Pedo Joe, his policies are BAD for American citizens.
 
I would love to think so but the MSM may have created a monster they can no longer control.
the sad part is that the left and the mushy middle to some extent still like socialism but they cannot comprehend WHY socialism hits them in the pocketbook like it does.
They know Biden and the rest of the donkey leadership are bumbling idiots but they don't realize that anyone trying to further socialism are the same. Its not JUST dementia wrong with Pedo Joe, his policies are BAD for American citizens.

This post is proof that the answer is no. One party is openly hostile to democracy, and has no issue calling the President of the United States a pedophile.
 
Admittedly this is from CNN. But CNN came out recently w/ the Kamala hit piece and the NYT blasted Biden for inflation (yes, this one's on him they say).

Opinion: Why the tide may be turning on Trump
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/poli...ing-on-trump/ar-AAQSMZX?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531

And then there's this from The Hill:

Popping the progressive bubble
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/poli...ssive-bubble/ar-AAQS9Fn?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531

I, for one, hope so. I long for the days when Gerald Ford and Ronald Reagan could make deals with Carl Bert Albert (had to google that one) and Tip O'Neill and accomplish stuff. I'd add Bill Clinton but he basically caved to Republicans, not necessarily a bad thing at a time before they went stupid. Of course now it's the Dims that are the Party of Stupid.

Just my opinion but I think they are getting more extreme. We can look at history to know politics have never been some form of kumbaya. But until more recent times while Democrats and Republicans may go at it they could still attend dinner parties together or gets drinks after work etc. It's rare we see that today because no one wants to be caught fraternizing with the enemy. And we are in a time when the more fringe voices seem to get much of the attention. This type of environment makes it harder to 'work across the aisle' because doing so gets one labeled a RINO on the right or even now a DINO on the left so people retreat even more into their 'tribes' because its safer there.

I hate to use this board as proxy for anything but in a certain way its relevant here. This board (or its predecessor) about 15 years ago actually had pretty good discussions. Yes people went at it but there was a certain level of respect which allowed people to debate, argue and yet still get along to a degree (and even have fun on occasion). Now it's just mainly a troll fest and completely tribal with many wishing death on others etc. etc. Not all that different than what's happening in the real world.
 
Just my opinion but I think they are getting more extreme. We can look at history to know politics have never been some form of kumbaya. But until more recent times while Democrats and Republicans may go at it they could still attend dinner parties together or gets drinks after work etc. It's rare we see that today because no one wants to be caught fraternizing with the enemy. And we are in a time when the more fringe voices seem to get much of the attention. This type of environment makes it harder to 'work across the aisle' because doing so gets one labeled a RINO on the right or even now a DINO on the left so people retreat even more into their 'tribes' because its safer there.

I hate to use this board as proxy for anything but in a certain way its relevant here. This board (or its predecessor) about 15 years ago actually had pretty good discussions. Yes people went at it but there was a certain level of respect which allowed people to debate, argue and yet still get along to a degree (and even have fun on occasion). Now it's just mainly a troll fest and completely tribal with many wishing death on others etc. etc. Not all that different than what's happening in the real world.

The Left starts at extreme. Their view of any issue is What's ours is ours, what's yours is negotiable. They won't compromise on anything even when it's a case of cutting off their own nose to spite their face. They'll shoot themselves in the foot before they'll compromise.

But because many, most, maybe all, of their positions are so unrealistic, insane, and idiotic they often lose at the polls over them. That hardly means they'll give up trying however.

A great example of this was the gay marriage issue. The Left started out by saying they wanted this to be settled by popular vote and democracy. They or their opponents got gay marriage on the ballot in 35 states in various forms. The Left and gay marriage proponents lost 35 times.
The Left then came back and essentially said The public and voters don't know what the hell they're talking about! We're taking this to the courts. So, they shopped judges and won enough legal cases through bench rulings with sympathetic judges that they got the issue in their favor. That is, gay marriage was decided in the US by an autocratic, dictatorial method and not by legislating though the democratic process. It was completely undemocratically decided.
That was fine with the Left because they got what they wanted, democracy and majority rule be damned. That's just one example of how the Left rolls on everything.

Thus, on this board as elsewhere when you are trying to discuss something with the Left it quickly devolves into a hate fest of trolling and insults. Many of the non-Left respond in kind and that's pretty much the end of any discussion. The typical pattern for the Left is as follows. Try using it to see this pattern evolve in any thread the Left is involved in. It's inevitable that it will pop up.

First, the Leftist will try to change the subject. This doesn't have to be a major change. An example might be the thread is about Biden being a perv. So the Leftist throws in Well, what about Trump? He's a perv! If you fall for it, now the discussion is about Trump not Biden. The fix to that is to ignore the change or note it and return to the subject, Biden, thus Okay, maybe Trump is, but we're discussing Biden here not Trump...

When that fails, the Leftist will resort to insults or ad hominem. Fuck you, you troll... (insult) or, You don't have a clue what you're talking about... ad hominem.

If you ignore these and continue to spam facts and a reasonable position the Leftist will move to their final rebuttal, they'll insult you then not respond further. Fucking troll. That will be followed by a refusal to continue the conversation or they might put you on "ignore." That's a simple and childish way of getting around difficult debate with someone you seriously disagree with.

There is a fourth, but rare, alternative to the last one. The Leftist gets so bent by your position and facts they can't respond coherently. Instead they spout insane random babble at you.

In person, at this last stage Leftists often get violent too. This is when they'll assault you and you can respond by beating their pussy, wimp ass into the ground...
 
The Left starts at extreme. Their view of any issue is What's ours is ours, what's yours is negotiable. They won't compromise on anything even when it's a case of cutting off their own nose to spite their face. They'll shoot themselves in the foot before they'll compromise.

But because many, most, maybe all, of their positions are so unrealistic, insane, and idiotic they often lose at the polls over them. That hardly means they'll give up trying however.

A great example of this was the gay marriage issue. The Left started out by saying they wanted this to be settled by popular vote and democracy. They or their opponents got gay marriage on the ballot in 35 states in various forms. The Left and gay marriage proponents lost 35 times.
The Left then came back and essentially said The public and voters don't know what the hell they're talking about! We're taking this to the courts. So, they shopped judges and won enough legal cases through bench rulings with sympathetic judges that they got the issue in their favor. That is, gay marriage was decided in the US by an autocratic, dictatorial method and not by legislating though the democratic process. It was completely undemocratically decided.
That was fine with the Left because they got what they wanted, democracy and majority rule be damned. That's just one example of how the Left rolls on everything.

Thus, on this board as elsewhere when you are trying to discuss something with the Left it quickly devolves into a hate fest of trolling and insults. Many of the non-Left respond in kind and that's pretty much the end of any discussion. The typical pattern for the Left is as follows. Try using it to see this pattern evolve in any thread the Left is involved in. It's inevitable that it will pop up.

First, the Leftist will try to change the subject. This doesn't have to be a major change. An example might be the thread is about Biden being a perv. So the Leftist throws in Well, what about Trump? He's a perv! If you fall for it, now the discussion is about Trump not Biden. The fix to that is to ignore the change or note it and return to the subject, Biden, thus Okay, maybe Trump is, but we're discussing Biden here not Trump...

When that fails, the Leftist will resort to insults or ad hominem. Fuck you, you troll... (insult) or, You don't have a clue what you're talking about... ad hominem.

If you ignore these and continue to spam facts and a reasonable position the Leftist will move to their final rebuttal, they'll insult you then not respond further. Fucking troll. That will be followed by a refusal to continue the conversation or they might put you on "ignore." That's a simple and childish way of getting around difficult debate with someone you seriously disagree with.

There is a fourth, but rare, alternative to the last one. The Leftist gets so bent by your position and facts they can't respond coherently. Instead they spout insane random babble at you.

In person, at this last stage Leftists often get violent too. This is when they'll assault you and you can respond by beating their pussy, wimp ass into the ground...

Here's the thing man, it takes two to tango. Someone on the left could write something very similar to what you just did with the basic premise being "the right this" and "the right that" without ever saying anything about themselves or their own side. And then where are we?

The deepening tribalism is why we are in this position. Until each 'side' is willing to look in their own mirror and make changes there's not a lot of reason to think things will be different anytime soon.
 
Actually several people I think highly of because they tend to be right have commented recently that America seems to be ramping up to something like The Terror of the French Revolution.
 
Here's the thing man, it takes two to tango. Someone on the left could write something very similar to what you just did with the basic premise being "the right this" and "the right that" without ever saying anything about themselves or their own side. And then where are we?

The deepening tribalism is why we are in this position. Until each 'side' is willing to look in their own mirror and make changes there's not a lot of reason to think things will be different anytime soon.

But that's not how it swings. I watched this exact scenario go down repeatedly in college and have ever since. It is a one-sided thing. Pay attention to this very board and you'll see it.

As the Left gains more power on the national stage it becomes more obvious too.
 
But that's not how it swings. I watched this exact scenario go down repeatedly in college and have ever since. It is a one-sided thing. Pay attention to this very board and you'll see it.

As the Left gains more power on the national stage it becomes more obvious too.

Look at the last four years on the right where if anyone basically didn't go along with what Trump wanted they were either Deep State or a RINO. How is that almost anything but extremism? It's that exact attitude that forces people into a tribal/for or against/ride or die mindset. Think about great Republican statemen like George Shultz and James Baker. Do we see folks like them around anymore? They were on the right but they were also pragmatic, could work with people and got deals done. There's no question they would be called RINO's today. That's what we're dealing with.
 
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Look at the last four years on the right where if anyone basically didn't go along with what Trump wanted they were either Deep State or a RINO. How is that almost anything but extremism? It's that exact attitude that forces people into a tribal/for or again/ride or die mindset. Think about great Republican statemen like George Shultz and James Baker. Do we see folks like them around anymore? They were on the right but they were also pragmatic, could work with people and got deals done. There's no question they would be called RINO's today. That's what we're dealing with.

I do believe you are wasting your time, better off saving your energy for tomorrow
 
Look at the last four years on the right where if anyone basically didn't go along with what Trump wanted they were either Deep State or a RINO. How is that almost anything but extremism? It's that exact attitude that forces people into a tribal/for or against/ride or die mindset. Think about great Republican statemen like George Shultz and James Baker. Do we see folks like them around anymore? They were on the right but they were also pragmatic, could work with people and got deals done. There's no question they would be called RINO's today. That's what we're dealing with.

Really? How many radical Right violent protests were there nationally? How many Trump hating radical Leftist ones?

Can you give some examples of what Trump did when "anyone basically didn't go along with (him)?"
 
Really? How many radical Right violent protests were there nationally? How many Trump hating radical Leftist ones?

Can you give some examples of what Trump did when "anyone basically didn't go along with (him)?"

This is what I'm responding to (from the OP):

""I long for the days when Gerald Ford and Ronald Reagan could make deals with Carl Bert Albert (had to google that one) and Tip O'Neill and accomplish stuff.""


Today we rarely have that because of polarization and tribalism on steroids. The post you just responded to was 100% true. There is a mindset of 'we are at war and I will not give an inch' and thus we can't look ourselves and our own 'side' in how we behave to contribute to the extremism.
 
This is what I'm responding to (from the OP):

""I long for the days when Gerald Ford and Ronald Reagan could make deals with Carl Bert Albert (had to google that one) and Tip O'Neill and accomplish stuff.""


Today we rarely have that because of polarization and tribalism on steroids. The post you just responded to was 100% true. There is a mindset of 'we are at war and I will not give an inch' and thus we can't look ourselves and our own 'side' in how we behave to contribute to the extremism.

You can't negotiate with the Left. You can negotiate with the Right. You can negotiate with the Center and Moderates. You can negotiate with Liberals. But the Left? No fucking way. They won't play that game.
 
This is what I'm responding to (from the OP):

""I long for the days when Gerald Ford and Ronald Reagan could make deals with Carl Bert Albert (had to google that one) and Tip O'Neill and accomplish stuff.""

Had to Google Carl Albert? What? Doesn’t the author know anything? ;) Lol… Where I live lots of things are named for him, including the Junior College where I got my Associate degree.

Today we rarely have that because of polarization and tribalism on steroids. The post you just responded to was 100% true. There is a mindset of 'we are at war and I will not give an inch' and thus we can't look ourselves and our own 'side' in how we behave to contribute to the extremism.

I’ll freely admit that I have extreme views on some issues. My views on others are not so extreme. At least I might be willing to compromise on some things.
 
Had to Google Carl Albert? What? Doesn’t the author know anything? ;) Lol… Where I live lots of things are named for him, including the Junior College where I got my Associate degree.



I’ll freely admit that I have extreme views on some issues. My views on others are not so extreme. At least I might be willing to compromise on some things.

This isn't about having some extreme views on certain issues it's about the interaction we all have each other. You're a great example of what we could all aspire to in that you are solid in your beliefs but you treat and respond to people with a level of respect and decorum that is dearly missing. The goal isn't kumbaya but rather the ability to find ways to work together when needed. And that is very difficult to do when we only think the worst of each other and wish each other dead (as an example).
 
Just my opinion but I think they are getting more extreme. We can look at history to know politics have never been some form of kumbaya. But until more recent times while Democrats and Republicans may go at it they could still attend dinner parties together or gets drinks after work etc. It's rare we see that today because no one wants to be caught fraternizing with the enemy. And we are in a time when the more fringe voices seem to get much of the attention. This type of environment makes it harder to 'work across the aisle' because doing so gets one labeled a RINO on the right or even now a DINO on the left so people retreat even more into their 'tribes' because its safer there.

I hate to use this board as proxy for anything but in a certain way its relevant here. This board (or its predecessor) about 15 years ago actually had pretty good discussions. Yes people went at it but there was a certain level of respect which allowed people to debate, argue and yet still get along to a degree (and even have fun on occasion). Now it's just mainly a troll fest and completely tribal with many wishing death on others etc. etc. Not all that different than what's happening in the real world.

Yes but the leftist media seems to moderating. Never thought I'd see CNN doing a hit piece on a prominent dem or the NYT come out and say inflation, for once, is the direct responsibility of a president.
 
Admittedly this is from CNN. But CNN came out recently w/ the Kamala hit piece and the NYT blasted Biden for inflation (yes, this one's on him they say).

Opinion: Why the tide may be turning on Trump
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/poli...ing-on-trump/ar-AAQSMZX?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531

And then there's this from The Hill:

Popping the progressive bubble
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/poli...ssive-bubble/ar-AAQS9Fn?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531

I, for one, hope so. I long for the days when Gerald Ford and Ronald Reagan could make deals with Carl Bert Albert (had to google that one) and Tip O'Neill and accomplish stuff. I'd add Bill Clinton but he basically caved to Republicans, not necessarily a bad thing at a time before they went stupid. Of course now it's the Dims that are the Party of Stupid.

Agreed on more functional government, but there are a lot of people who want some violence first....and I suspect they'll get their wish.
 
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