Breaking News: Chavez Draws a Crowd of 20,000

LadyT

LadyT

JPP Modarater
Contributor
That's 15,000 more than Ron Paul. Suck it String. :bleh:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2007-03-09-chavez-rally_N.htm

Chavez leads rally against Bush visit

BUENOS AIRES, Argentina (AP) — Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez launched another verbal assault on President Bush Friday as he led some 20,000 supporters in an anti-American rally, calling the U.S. leader a "political cadaver" and blasting his policies as "imperialist."
 
Lady you cannot cheer for Chavez. He is a totalitarian as much as Pinochet was. Human Rights watch and Amnesty BOTH say that there are credible accounts of Chavez illegally arresting people, detaining without cause and torturing people who protest his presidency. Chavez is no better than those on the right in south and central america that use force, torture and intimidation for political gain. I know you are trying to make a point that he gets bigger crowds than Paul but they are not in the same catagory of politician. Paul has never used the police to abduct political opponents and torture them for their beliefs. Very credible evidence in Venezuela says that Chavez does.
 
That's all he can pull in a nation where he pretty much controls all of them? That's pretty pitiful. People won't be coming in larger crowds until the Convention... After that the superhuman being that is Ron Paul will shine...
 
Socrtease said:
Lady you cannot cheer for Chavez. He is a totalitarian as much as Pinochet was. Human Rights watch and Amnesty BOTH say that there are credible accounts of Chavez illegally arresting people, detaining without cause and torturing people who protest his presidency. Chavez is no better than those on the right in south and central america that use force, torture and intimidation for political gain. I know you are trying to make a point that he gets bigger crowds than Paul but they are not in the same catagory of politician. Paul has never used the police to abduct political opponents and torture them for their beliefs. Very credible evidence in Venezuela says that Chavez does.
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I'd like to see what they have on Chavez torturing? I have never even heard an allegation of that one. Amnesty says this?
 
Damocles said:
That's all he can pull in a nation where he pretty much controls all of them? That's pretty pitiful. People won't be coming in larger crowds until the Convention... After that the superhuman being that is Ron Paul will shine...
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And yet 4x more impressive than Ron Paul's microscopic crowd
 
I think we can safely assume that a hefty majority of the 20,000 came there out of protest of Bush and Bush's policies (which is something that Ron Paul does, too - unlike Hillary Clinton and other leading Dems) as opposed to coming out to support Chavez.
 
ironhead said:
I think we can safely assume that a hefty majority of the 20,000 came there out of protest of Bush and Bush's policies (which is something that Ron Paul does, too - unlike Hillary Clinton and other leading Dems) as opposed to coming out to support Chavez.
Click to expand...

You may have a point.
 
Socrtease said:
Lady you cannot cheer for Chavez. He is a totalitarian as much as Pinochet was. Human Rights watch and Amnesty BOTH say that there are credible accounts of Chavez illegally arresting people, detaining without cause and torturing people who protest his presidency. Chavez is no better than those on the right in south and central america that use force, torture and intimidation for political gain. I know you are trying to make a point that he gets bigger crowds than Paul but they are not in the same catagory of politician. Paul has never used the police to abduct political opponents and torture them for their beliefs. Very credible evidence in Venezuela says that Chavez does.
Click to expand...


I was prepared to lend you a sympathetic ear, but this comment really distracted from the credibility of your post:

"He is a totalitarian as much as Pinochet was."

Chavez is not equivalent to Pinochet, just as King Abdullah of Jordan is not equivalent to Saddam Hussien.

You are correct that the Chavez government security forces have been identified by Amnesty International for a few instances of improper behavior, inappropriate force, unjustifed dententions, and some cases of alleged torture. Mostly surrounding temporal and discrete events such as the 2004 protests. But that does not make it equivalent to the mass detentions, systematic torture, and murder of Pinochet opponents. And recall, Chavez was duly and democraticlly elected, unlike Pinochet who grabbed power in a military coup.

I certainly deplore the human rights violations that have occured in venezuela. I'm glad that allegedly liberal groups like AI keep an eye on it. And condemn it.

However, in the context of the anachrocapitalists and bush voters, the rage against chavez is all out of proportion to the actual and large scale systematic human rights violations that occur around the world. In fact, IMO, the anchrocapitalist hatred of chavez is largely about their decades long shadow-boxing against some nebulous threat of "socialism". Which, from the anachrocapitalist perspective, translates to property rights and the modest nationalization Chavez programs for oil and telecommunications. I don't don't think the anachrocapitalists are fundamentally concerned about some limited and discrete cases of abuses by venezuelan security forces. I think it comes down to some ideological shadow boxing fight "against socialism", in the twightlight years of the robber baron, lassaize faire fans. Which, again, is why I'm glad that groups like Amnesty International is there to document individual human rights abuses, without passing judgement on "socialism", or nebulous "property rights.
 
Cypress said:
.........You are correct that the Chavez government security forces have been identified by Amnesty International for a few instances of improper behavior, inappropriate force, unjustifed dententions, and some cases of alleged torture. Mostly surrounding temporal and discrete events such as the 2004 protests. But that does not make it equivalent to the mass detentions, systematic torture, and murder of Pinochet opponents. And recall, Chavez was duly and democraticlly elected, unlike Pinochet who grabbed power in a military coup. .............
Click to expand...

Really? Well then, I guess he should be overthrown......


pssstttt......


http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/06/05/amnesty.detainee/index.html

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The chief of Amnesty International USA alleged Sunday that the Guantanamo Bay detention camp is part of a worldwide network of U.S. jails, some of them secret, where prisoners are mistreated and even killed.
 
Cypress said:
However, in the context of the anachrocapitalists and bush voters, the rage against chavez is all out of proportion to the actual and large scale systematic human rights violations that occur around the world. In fact, IMO, the anchrocapitalist hatred of chavez is largely about their decades long shadow-boxing against some nebulous threat of "socialism". Which, from the anachrocapitalist perspective, translates to property rights and the modest nationalization Chavez programs for oil and telecommunications. I don't don't think the anachrocapitalists are fundamentally concerned about some limited and discrete cases of abuses by venezuelan security forces. I think it comes down to some ideological shadow boxing fight "against socialism", in the twightlight years of the robber baron, lassaize faire fans. Which, again, is why I'm glad that groups like Amnesty International is there to document individual human rights abuses, without passing judgement on "socialism", or nebulous "property rights.
Click to expand...

Hatred and rage for Chavez? You gotta be kidding?

I am concerned about his changes to centralize power under his office and some of the other civil rights violations.

But you don't hear me honestly (my post was tongue in cheek) stating that anyone that visits the nation or talks to or about Chavez civily is a murderer. The hate and rage is from your side and the reason is clear. It's purely the ideological motivations.
 
LadyT said:
Really? Well then, I guess he should be overthrown......


pssstttt......


http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/06/05/amnesty.detainee/index.html

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The chief of Amnesty International USA alleged Sunday that the Guantanamo Bay detention camp is part of a worldwide network of U.S. jails, some of them secret, where prisoners are mistreated and even killed.
Click to expand...

You guys are hypocrites and your post only demonstrates it further. So long as the guy is a socialist you are willing to defend him.
 
Socrtease said:
Lady you cannot cheer for Chavez. He is a totalitarian as much as Pinochet was. Human Rights watch and Amnesty BOTH say that there are credible accounts of Chavez illegally arresting people, detaining without cause and torturing people who protest his presidency. Chavez is no better than those on the right in south and central america that use force, torture and intimidation for political gain. I know you are trying to make a point that he gets bigger crowds than Paul but they are not in the same catagory of politician. Paul has never used the police to abduct political opponents and torture them for their beliefs. Very credible evidence in Venezuela says that Chavez does.
Click to expand...

I'd like to see that "credible" evidence .. so I can so you even more credible evidence that Chavez is widely supported throughout Venezuela and Latin America. I've never seen someone who uses torture and arrest becomne as popular with the very people he's supposed to be torturing and arresting.

Paul doesn't use the police to torture because he has no power to do so, but he has called for the arrest of 13 year-old black children and for them to be treated as adults because "they run fast." He virtually called for a race war in Los Angeles during the riots and he participates with groups who have a violent history.

I would have thought you woulkd have been more keen to CIA tricks .. which has formented all manner of unrest ANYWHERE a leader does not fall in the corporate line and ANYWHERE a leader focuses on the needs of his people rather than making money for himself and western corporations.

We have a long and sordid history that is hardly deniable.

Chavev is nowhere near Pinochet .. in fact, they would be enemies to the core.
 
blackascoal said:
I'd like to see that "credible" evidence .. so I can so you even more credible evidence that Chavez is widely supported throughout Venezuela and Latin America. I've never seen someone who uses torture and arrest becomne as popular with the very people he's supposed to be torturing and arresting.

Paul doesn't use the police to torture because he has no power to do so, but he has called for the arrest of 13 year-old black children and for them to be treated as adults because "they run fast." He virtually called for a race war in Los Angeles during the riots and he participates with groups who have a violent history.

I would have thought you woulkd have been more keen to CIA tricks .. which has formented all manner of unrest ANYWHERE a leader does not fall in the corporate line and ANYWHERE a leader focuses on the needs of his people rather than making money for himself and western corporations.

We have a long and sordid history that is hardly deniable.

Chavev is nowhere near Pinochet .. in fact, they would be enemies to the core.
Click to expand...
Absolutely they would be enemies. But if you look at the links provided earlier in this thread, credible, at least in my eyes, sources like Human Rights Watch and Amnesty have reports of human rights abuses.

This is the AI website dedicated to Venezuela http://web.amnesty.org/library/eng-ven/news

And here is HRW articles on Venezuela
http://hrw.org/doc?t=americas&c=venezu

Chavez is looking at measures that would make him a dictatorial leader rather than a representative of the people. He is shutting down media outlets that criticize him and his military is using violent means to repress dissatisfaction with his government.

This is a report from the US state department from 2004. I realize that to take it seriously on its face when it is from the people that gave us mobile chemical labs and don't seem to have a problem with our use of Rendition is hard to take but it does seem to correspond with reports from HRW and AI. Don't discount them just because the US doesn't like Chavez.
 
LMAO...........

Gotta love it when the likes of Lady T,Darla,cippie et al come out in droves to attack the opposition with the Commie mantra of dis-information...sorry ladies soco is correct Chavez is a sorry ass dictator...who loves to torture the opposition...and please quit with the does 'Amnesty International have info on this...Amnesty International is funded by the KGB of old or new...depends on the year!:rolleyes:
 
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