British believe Bush is more dangerous than Kim Jong-il

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British believe Bush is more dangerous than Kim Jong-il


· US allies think Washington threat to world peace
· Only Bin Laden feared more in United Kingdom

Julian Glover
Friday November 3, 2006
The Guardian

Guardian front page graphic from November 3 2006
The ICM poll ranks the US president with some of his bitterest enemies as a cause of global anxiety.


America is now seen as a threat to world peace by its closest neighbours and allies, according to an international survey of public opinion published today that reveals just how far the country's reputation has fallen among former supporters since the invasion of Iraq.

Carried out as US voters prepare to go to the polls next week in an election dominated by the war, the research also shows that British voters see George Bush as a greater danger to world peace than either the North Korean leader, Kim Jong-il, or the Iranian president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Both countries were once cited by the US president as part of an "axis of evil", but it is Mr Bush who now alarms voters in countries with traditionally strong links to the US.

The survey has been carried out by the Guardian in Britain and leading newspapers in Israel (Haaretz), Canada (La Presse and Toronto Star) and Mexico (Reforma), using professional local opinion polling in each country.

It exposes high levels of distrust. In Britain, 69% of those questioned say they believe US policy has made the world less safe since 2001, with only 7% thinking action in Iraq and Afghanistan has increased global security.

The finding is mirrored in America's immediate northern and southern neighbours, Canada and Mexico, with 62% of Canadians and 57% of Mexicans saying the world has become more dangerous because of US policy.

Even in Israel, which has long looked to America to guarantee national security, support for the US has slipped.

Only one in four Israeli voters say that Mr Bush has made the world safer, outweighed by the number who think he has added to the risk of international conflict, 36% to 25%. A further 30% say that at best he has made no difference.

Voters in three of the four countries surveyed also overwhelmingly reject the decision to invade Iraq, with only Israeli voters in favour, 59% to 34% against. Opinion against the war has hardened strongly since a similar survey before the US presidential election in 2004.

In Britain 71% of voters now say the invasion was unjustified, a view shared by 89% of Mexicans and 73% of Canadians. Canada is a Nato member whose troops are in action in Afghanistan. Neither do voters think America has helped advance democracy in developing countries, one of the justifications for deposing Saddam Hussein. Only 11% of Britons and 28% of Israelis think that has happened.

As a result, Mr Bush is ranked with some of his bitterest enemies as a cause of global anxiety. He is outranked by Osama bin Laden in all four countries, but runs the al-Qaida leader close in the eyes of UK voters: 87% think the al-Qaida leader is a great or moderate danger to peace, compared with 75% who think this of Mr Bush.

The US leader and close ally of Tony Blair is seen in Britain as a more dangerous man than the president of Iran (62% think he is a danger), the North Korean leader (69%) and the leader of Hizbullah, Hassan Nasrallah (65%).

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,1938434,00.html
 
Yes, Bush worries me more than Kim and Armourdinnerjacket....

That's what we've been trying to persuade our American cousins of ...
 
I think Kim Jong Ill is obviously more malevolent than bush.

But, bush's stupidity, lack of judgment, and messianic zeal has the potential to do more harm to the world - intentionally or unintentionally.
 
But, bush's stupidity, lack of judgment, and messianic zeal has the potential to do more harm to the world - intentionally or unintentionally.

Its more the fact that he is in charge of the world's biggest military.

I'd put Kim, Armour and Bush on a par, personality-wise, but Kim and Armour are limited insomuch as they have limited resources to enact their madness....

Makes you appreciate the sanity of Clinton, and I might even say even Raygun....
 
Yes, Bush worries me more than Kim and Armourdinnerjacket....

That's what we've been trying to persuade our American cousins of ...
Some of us need no persuasion in that regard. :clink:

Orwellian is, perhaps, the best single adjective for this administration. The last several, in fact, but this one in particular. Orwellian, but inept.

They so desperately need an Evil Enemy, yet they can't seem to conjure up a believable one. Kim Jong Il, while a nasty little demon in his own private hell, is really small change in the larger circles. And face it: anyone with hair like that is hard to take seriously. Look at Donald Trump.
 
But, bush's stupidity, lack of judgment, and messianic zeal has the potential to do more harm to the world - intentionally or unintentionally.

Its more the fact that he is in charge of the world's biggest military.

I'd put Kim, Armour and Bush on a par, personality-wise, but Kim and Armour are limited insomuch as they have limited resources to enact their madness....

Makes you appreciate the sanity of Clinton, and I might even say even Raygun....

Reagon wouldn't have invaded iraq. That's my opinon, but reagan's close advisor, Pat Buchannon, also holds this opinion.
 
I agree that the combination of deranged messianic attitude and control over the world's largest military makes Dubya more dangerous to world peace than the other leaders mentioned.
 
I agree that the combination of deranged messianic attitude and control over the world's largest military makes Dubya more dangerous to world peace than the other leaders mentioned.
Yes. It's not just the desire to impose his will on the world, it's the power to make a serious attempt.
 
I'm glad that the US seems to be recovering from the red mist caused by 9/11 and recognising the mess Bush has made and how dangerous he is...

I'd imagine the next POTUS will be a complete breath of fresh air...

Have a good weekend chaps, see you all on Monday....
 
And that is during the pre-election magical gas price drop and the peaceful/diplomatic attitude he has taken in the leadup to the recent election and in light of no recent attacks, another attack and the number immediately rises to 80-90 percent of thoughtless manic support for the war mongering fool.

What was even more scary to me yesterday and I know this is off topic but not quite. I was watching Free-TV and they had a person from the Atheist Society or whatever they are called and she was ranting about how screwed up the Amish were for inviting the wife of the killer of their children to the memorial ceremony. I couldn't believe it. I listened for a few minutes to make sure I was hearing this idiot correctly and yes that is what she was saying. I had to turn it off. I still haven't gotten over that. I mean there are a lot of things that I feel the Amish may be wrong about, but certainly their handling of their recent tragedy was a model in humanity that the rest of the nation would to well to immulate. So I was psychologically damaged to some extent by the level of this woman's animosity to their willingness to understand first that the wife had nothing to do with the actions of the husband and second that they were willing to forgive and share the outpouring of generosity from around the nation with the family of the perpetrator knowing that they were suffering as much as the Amish themselves were sugffering. And then to see this eye for an eye response from Atheists which is so similar to that of the Religious Right, was terrifying. Some people in this world are fucked up!!!!
 
And then to see this eye for an eye response from Atheists which is so similar to that of the Religious Right, was terrifying. Some people in this world are f*&^% up!!!!

I'm not going to pretend I'm better than the atheist in that I would never be able to forgive someone or even be able to stomach looking at their family after something like that occurred, however I think we are in sad state when people even recognize good in others.

That actually reminds me of another debate someone was having of atheism as a religion in and of itself.
 
I'm not going to pretend I'm better than the atheist in that I would never be able to forgive someone or even be able to stomach looking at their family after something like that occurred, however I think we are in sad state when people even recognize good in others.

That actually reminds me of another debate someone was having of atheism as a religion in and of itself.
I believe that many Atheists do believe and attempt to proselytize just as if it is a religion. Not all Atheists are religious about it, just some of them.
 
I think that is the difference in Atheists and non believers.
I am a non bleliever. I support anyone elses right to believe as they wish as long as it does not step on others rights.
 
I'm not going to pretend I'm better than the atheist in that I would never be able to forgive someone or even be able to stomach looking at their family after something like that occurred, however I think we are in sad state when people even recognize good in others.

That actually reminds me of another debate someone was having of atheism as a religion in and of itself.

My father killed himself...but I still went to his burial...he couldn't have a proper funeral, Catholics don't do that for suicides...Anyway that gave me at a very young age a bit of an edge regarding several key moral issues around death and forgiveness and the symbolism of the memorial service and what it means to cheat GAWD as it were...the contradictions are purely intentional.

P.S. I gained a tremendous amount of respect for the Amish for the way they handled their tragedy, it wouldn't be a real sacrifice if they hadn't had to put their feelings aside...at least as I understand the word "sacrifice"...they were what I would call "benevolent" and "self-sacrificing" at a time of incredible tragedy...a real selfless outpouring of love and forgiveness...
 
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